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COURT 69

Before LORD JUSTICE WALLER Vice President of the Court of Appeal, Civil Division

LORD JUSTICE DYSON and

LORD JUSTICE LLOYD

Thursday, 5th November, 2009

At half-past 9

FOR JUDGMENT

APPEAL

From The Chancery Division

FINAL DECISIONS

A3/2009/0356 Southern Pacific Mortgages Limited -v- Heath. Appeal of Defendants from the order of His Honour Judge Purle QC, dated 29th January 2009, filed 23rd February 2009.

[on*the*case]

I have been trawling the FSA website, they have a lot of information regarding benchmarking and best practice. This section regarding Fees & Charges gives a good insight into what the FSA consider to be good and poor practice.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=2553862

 

Poor practice

 

 

• Arrears fees and charges are determined by benchmarking against those set by other firms, without reference to the firm's own costs.
  
• The lender does not undertake a regular assessment of fees and charges to ensure they are less than or equal to the additional cost of administering accounts in arrears.
  
• Arrears charges cover more than the administrative costs involved.
  
• Customers are in effect charged for specific arrears-related administrative tasks more than once. For example, through being charged task-specific fees on top of a monthly arrears management fee.
  
• When setting the level of arrears charges firms account for items that do not arise from administering arrears, such as advertising or Financial Ombudsman Service fees.
  
• Lenders using third-party administrators to carry out arrears handling set the level of arrears charges higher than the administrative costs involved to subsidise and reduce costs relating to other areas of their commercial arrangement with the third-party administrator.
  

Regards

[mich7k]

has anyone heard yet how much they are going to get back from gmac - my friend had a letter today stating they would be re-crediting her account £257 as she is still with them im not withthem any more so im waiting for a letter

[slgsue]

I am the same mich, not been with them for 2 years now but am hoping for a bit of a refund

[on*the*case]

....... but am hoping for a bit of a refund

 

Hoping for quite a lot of a refund....

[slgsue]

Hoping for quite a lot of a refund....

 

:)Yes same here, the amount of charges they whacked on to my mortgage had to be getting into the thousands, court charges, no direct debit etc....... just keeping everything crossed now!!!!

[stressed2009]

I am a little disappointed TBH from what I have been reading I dont anticipate getting all that much. In the latest statement it shows I have had over 2k worth of charges, mostly for unpaid DD fees, arrears fees and them taking me to court twice! From what I understand I would only get refunded the 'non direct debit' fee in months which no payment was actually made, the solicitors instruction fee - only the amount over what the actual cost was. I can only see myself getting about £100.

 

I will wait for my letter before passing final judgement but I am not overly hopeful!

[wishboneash]

hi in the same position i was taken to court given a suspended order

was £2700 in arrears i have some old statment's 50 earears charges 15 non dd

they have called me up have offered £450 was going through a firm jvs

 

i.e 31.12 2004 to 3103 2007 twenty seven £50 pounds charges made 27 £15

same dates ,

 

home visit fee £100 never saw figures for court case

can some get there head round this figure please

 

on one of the sheets

for 02-05-2003

postal payment 02-05 -2003 £586.68

postal payment £500 30-05-2003

litigation fee £50 30-05-2003

31-05-2003 intrest charge -£422.40

intrest charge

 

need help many thanks paul.

Edited November 16, 2009 by wishboneash

[on*the*case]

hi in the same position i was taken to court given a suspended orde was £2700 in arrears i have some old statment's 50 earears charges 15 non dd they have called me up have offered £450 was going through a firm jvs i.e 31.12 2004 to 3103 2007 twenty seven £50 pounds charges made 27 £15 same dates , home visit fee £100 never saw figures for court case

can some get there head round this figure please

 

on one of the sheets

for 02-05-2003

postal payment 02-05 -2003 £586.68

postal payment £500 30-05-2003

litigation fee £50 30-05-2003

31-05-2003 intrest charge -£422.40

intrest charge

 

need help many thanks paul.

 

Hi paul

 

You have been offered £450? is that right? is it GMAC?

 

Have a read of this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/repossessions/232055-capstone-charges-suspended-possesion.html#post2580212 and then start a new thread with your own question (its easier to deal with and you will get more response with your own thread).

 

To start a new thread click on this link for Mortgages and Secured Loans

Mortgages and Secured Loans - The Consumer Forums

At the top(ish) left hand side click the button NEW THREAD. Fill the title with something like, Unfair Mortgage Charges How do I reclaim?, and then make your post.

 

Good Luck

[mcintosh44]

Hi all.

I have a Mortgage with GMAC and have acrued quite a considerable amount of 'arrears fees' over the last four years or so.

Unfortunately circumstances have restricted me from arranging a High street lender.

I am now aware that GMAC have stopped adding on the £50.00 'arrearsfee'.

This ceased on the 31st of October so in my reckoning they are basically admitting these were an unlawful and unjust charges they have got away with for years.

I have also had a letter amounting to a pityfull £70+ for the charges/fees in which they have been fined.

I now am asking if anybody is going to continue and progress to asking for the charges to be repaid, and or court proceedings?

 

Thanks mcintosh44

[Ell-enn]

As I understand it, they are only refunding charges for the months where no payment was made on the account. Although why just those months I've no idea . If they were unfair then, surely they were unfair for all the other months!

[on*the*case]

Hi mcintosh44

I did have a previous GMAC mortgage and am waiting to see what turns up in the post. Then its the asking for detailed account, SAR, challenge the fees etc route for me.

Keep on following the forum postings, I suspect things will develop over the next few weeks.

 

Ell-enn, the FSA was pretty clear about what they considered to be GMACs failings, and I agree with you, if a charge is unfair in one month then its unfair in any other month.

[wishboneash]

:)Yes same here, the amount of charges they whacked on to my mortgage had to be getting into the thousands, court charges, no direct debit etc....... just keeping everything crossed now!!!!

 

hi hoping for the same had a call from them 450 pounds offered

[mich7k]

hiya well i called them today told me i was entitled to a refund and a letter had been sent out to me on Friday but the man said that he couldnt tell me what the offer letter is as it wasnt showing on the system! so watch this space ill let u know

[mcintosh44]

Hi all,

I have dug out my old Kensington statements and low and behold i have been charged £3306.98 including various fees and the mighty early redemption fee of nearly £1900.00. If i put the interest on at 8% it is nearly £5000.00 from 2001.

Me thinks it's time to fight and be solvent again...........

 

Mcintosh44

[slybeth4]

HI Caggers,

 

Just received two letters for two seperate mortgage a/c's previously with GMAC (back in 2004/5) on property I rendted out (ex family homes). They have offered a total of £600 refund. I fell into arrears due to bad tenants and my company suffered post-MG Rover crisis.

 

However, both my properties went into the hands of administrators/ receivers and were almost sold off at auction. At a last and desperate attempt I managed to re-mortgae, and save them from auction, literally 10mins before the hammer dropped. It was only the kindness of a lady at the receivers that moved my property down the auction list, pending funds being received. These were my family properties and I was desperately under pressure to save them. I tried to negotiate with GMAC and they were having none of it !!!! In fact their appointed receivers took circa £7-10K in fees !!!. Reading the GMAC apology is like dick turpin coming back to pay the man he robbed !!! Who knows this £600 may have saved the properties !!!!!!!!!!.

 

I am so angry & fuming now, that I may consider bringing a legal case against GMAC for a full refund (inc £7-10K), plus all the expenses and charges I incurred in re-mortgaing, when according to the FSA announcement they should have worked to negotiate with the customer. Also, as my credit was somewhat adverse, I went to the cowboys (Blemain Finance) and London Mortgae/SPML. Does anyone share my view in bringing a case ????? Please some feedback. Thanks :-x

[slybeth4]

has anyone heard yet how much they are going to get back from gmac - my friend had a letter today stating they would be re-crediting her account £257 as she is still with them im not withthem any more so im waiting for a letter

 

Hi I got back £600 today by letter (over two properties). I am now considering legal action for £7-10K in repossesion fees. They did not negotiate or consider the alternatives, I ended up re-mortaging with Blemain and SPML cowboys. I could make a massive claim, in that I was forced to re-mortgage, when infact it may not have been necessary. Any thoughts ???

[slgsue]

I am hoping that I receive a similar letter as you soon. I was with them between 2004 - 2007 and received extortionate charges. I am slightly sceptical to be honest and though at first was positive I could receive something, I now am getting doubtful. It seems that most of the people who have received offers are getting the offers at much less than what GMAC took off them!

[on*the*case]

Hi slybeth4

 

I also went to the wire with GMAC, and saved a property from the auction by re-mortgaging. I have not heard from GMAC yet.

 

Are there any conditions attached to acceptance of the refund? what does the covering letter say?

 

Regarding claiming back the rest YES YES & YES.

There are a few angry but also knowledgeable people on this forum who can help you.

 

The first step is to establish what are the disputed charges, fees and costs, and dont forget the additional interest charged.

1. Dig out all your old statements and your redemption statement.
   
2. Request a full statement of account from GMAC that lists all charges, credits and payments.
   
3. For every third party charge (solicitors, receiver, auctioneer etc) request a copy of the original invoice.
   
4. Check that you have not been charged sales commission by the auctioneer (they didnt sell) and check any advertising charges, you want to see the invoices and the adverts.
   
5. SAR request.
   

 

• Complain to GMAC and obtain their 'get stuffed letter'.
  

 

• Take your complaint to the FOS
  

Post on here if you need help, advice, support.

 

Good Luck

[mich7k]

well what cheek! got a letter today offering me £103! i had to remortgage with spml cause they tried to reposses the property after i struggled to get the arrears down they took me to court with 2 months arrears plus all charges and costs i didnt get a final breakdown i stopped paying by dd and started paying on my card but im sure it was more than 2 months how do they work out the figures is what id like to know do i accept the offer then get a subject to access request my erc was over £3000 could i get that back i was forced to remortgage cause of there charges:(

[on*the*case]

Hi mich7k

 

See my post directly above.

 

£7.7M (the amount ordered by the FSA) divided by 46,000 (the number of accounts) = £167 average each.

[mcintosh44]

Hi all, well i have just had a very interesting telephone call with GMAC.

It appears that the FSA are the body that have forced GMAC into halting the £50.00 Arrears fee. I have now asked them to post me all of my charges going back over 4 or 5 years.

I know this will run into £0000's with arrears fees and all else they have placed on my account.

Now to test them with an SAR and see just how much they owe me.

If the FSA can fine them and force the arrears charge to halt then it looks like that fee has to be unlawful, etc etc...........

 

Let's see what happens.

 

Mcintosh44:)

[on*the*case]

If the FSA can fine them and force the arrears charge to halt then it looks like that fee has to be unlawful, etc etc...........Let's see what happens. Mcintosh44:)

 

Absolutely!

 

It wont be a walk in the park though...expect them to lie, wriggle, and use every tactic in the book to put you off.

[Bona]

I am waiting for our offer we have been told it is complicated so will take up to 4 weeks

 

The way I look at it 46,000 people are going to be offered refunds how many of those will look on this or other sites they will send out the offers and cheques and deal with us troublesome ones last how many 500 a 1000 I will not rest untill I get a fair deal if it means going back to the FSA

[jayjayhants]

I am waiting for our offer we have been told it is complicated so will take up to 4 weeks

 

The way I look at it 46,000 people are going to be offered refunds how many of those will look on this or other sites they will send out the offers and cheques and deal with us troublesome ones last how many 500 a 1000 I will not rest untill I get a fair deal if it means going back to the FSA

hi im new to this site and had over 7000 pounds taken off me by these crooks....am going to ignore their offer and request a full break down of every penny they took and then demand it back with interest...am aware of the first letter and the 10 pound fee but not sure of the next letter i should write...anybody that can help me??? thanks