OUTSTANDING FINANCE>>Log Book Loans

[EDDT1]

I bought a car about 5 weeks ago from a private seller. I was sold the car as it being HPI clear, I also did a HPI check, but unfortunately this was one of these Text Checks which do not seem to cover outstanding finance. On Monday morning a guy working on behalf of Log Book Loans came to my parent’s house and tried to recover the car, myself and the car were not there at this time.

 

Since then I have done a full HPI report. On the first page it doesn’t seem to have shown up any outstanding finance directly linked to the car but on the second states that Log Book Loans own the car until the finance is settled.

 

So then I contacted citizen’s advice, I spoke to someone who was quite helpful but really just gave me an outline of the situation I was in. They said my only real option was to take the previous owner to court to reclaim either the money I paid for the car or what it costs me to buy it from the finance company.

 

I decided to speak to someone at Log Book Loans, who told me they had an interest in the car and had been trying to recover the car for 3 years but it kept getting sold on. £12,000 is owed on the car.

 

I did email the previous owner, and told him about the situation I am in. He has denied all knowledge about the outstanding finance and said that he always thought the car was HPI clear. Citizen’s advice did say though that I would be taking him to court on the grounds that he has sold me something that it is not, HPI clear. But to me that doesn’t seem like a very strong case.

 

I have possession of the log book in my name and have got a receipt of sale from the previous owner. I also have £1000 of receipts from the period I have had the car. I still have the car too.

 

If anyone thinks they could help I could send them a copy of the bill of sale and the full hpi check.

 

Thanks for taking time to read this.

Edited November 2, 2009 by EDDT1

[applecart]

Hi Ya

 

can you post up a copy of the Bill of Sale please? (don't need to see the personal name detail)

 

and er..... did the man from LBL give you this document?

 

and um.......can you also advise if he let you know which company he was from?

[EDDT1]

Yeh I have been sent a copy of the Bill of Sale, could I email it to you?

 

Regards to which company he was from, is he not just working for Log Book Loans?

 

Thanks mate!

[EDDT1]

Applecart, PM'd you.

[EDDT1]

Bill Of Sale.

 

Edit: My attachment removed, new version to follow.

Edited October 29, 2009 by EDDT1

[blitz]

I am going to clean that up for you, give me a min and will repost without the details on

 

(Can't say I am the best at editting especially when I use photoshop for it (and it treats PDFs as a full image) Uploaded as a gif on my server

 

http://www.qawse.com/billofsale.gif

 

Removed information that might be necessary:

 

Witness Occupation: Area Rep

Date stamp: Supreme Court of England & Wales (02 May 2006) Bill of sale (Central Office)

 

If you want me to post up page 3 more then happy to do so, was saving some space

Edited October 29, 2009 by blitz

[EDDT1]

Thanks blitz, much appreciated.

[blitz]

Unfortunately I know nothing about HP and LBL but hopefully someone will be around to help you out soon

[EDDT1]

Blitz I think some details may be needed regarding the signature of the witness to the BOS, it states he was an area rep and I am sure I have read somewhere that the witness cannot be related to LBL.

 

Also I think the date stamp on page 3 may also be required, could be wrong though.

 

Thanks again.

[blitz]

Edited my post above to reflect that information for you

[EDDT1]

Thanks a lot Blitz!

[applecart]

Hi EDDT1 - let me post this for you to view first of all.....................and continue to answer you on a separate thread : )

 

 

Log Book Loans Licence Revoked by OFT!!!!

Hi All

 

Some of us will already be aware that the Office Of Fair Trading have 'issued a determination to revoke the Traders licence"

 

The Determination was made on the 16th October 2009.

 

This means that the Office of Fair Trading have essentially revoked the licence of the Trader.

 

Current Applicant / Licensee:

Business NameCompany Registration NumberNine Regions Limited4286387

Licence Notes:

 

EvtStageOpen DateNotes6Determined To Revoke16/10/2009 6Minded To Revoke13/03/2009

 

 

Event Details:

 

 

Event TypeDate of ReceiptClosed DateStatusNotification23-Apr-2009 27-Apr-2009 CompletedRevocation17-Mar-2009 UnknownRenewal18-Dec-2006 19-Feb-2007 CompletedNotification18-Oct-2004 19-Oct-2004 CompletedNew Licence App15-Nov-2001 02-Jan-2002 Completed

 

 

 

 

However, the Trader has 28 days to Appeal this decision and the Traders licence is still in force until the Appeal process is completed.

 

Be minded consumers that the Appeal process can take months - so don't all take your cars out of hiding just yet......

 

There will be those of you who may be in the process of taking this trader to court or they may be taking you to court - whatever the position - the OFT are interested in seeing any documents that you may have..... including:

• Bills of Sale
  
• Consumer Credit Agreements
  
• Default Notices
  
• Termination Notices
  
• Arrears Letters
  
• Statements of Account
  
• Arrears Letters
  

For those of you that may have taken the court route they will be interested to see:

• Particulars of Claim by or against the Trader
  
• Case Summaries
  
• Synopsis of Issues
  
• Counterclaims
  
• Defence to any counterclaim etc etc.,
  

Any information you want to submit can be sent to:

 

[email protected] o.uk

 

Please make sure you put the following reference on each document to ensure it does not get 'lost':

 

"F.A.O: Julita Losowki/2N/17"

 

or for those of you who have details of another case manager within the OFT - send your information to them direct - ask them for their 'location' code so that your information gets to them safely.

 

Lastly: you must give the OFT written authority giving the OFT permission to use the information you send as evidence, please indicate this in your email that you send and the OFT will send you a 'authorisation' form for you to sign.

 

Additionally - If you are happy to give evidence in person at any future trial; then please let Julita or your case manager at the OFT know and they will ensure you are given details of the trial date well in advance - subject to space being available I'm sure....

 

Please act swiftly to ensure that the OFT can continue to have a full indication of what is happening for consumers on the ground as this is what empowers the OFT to take action!!!!!

 

Apple : )

[applecart]

EDDT1

 

I have viewed the BOS.

 

EDDT1 - If I came up to you and liked the look of your car and wanted it - obviously after giving you the blurb that a BoS means that the previous owner 'sold' it to me (a car worth £15k - sold for £5k that is) and then gave or sent you a copy of a Bill of Sale - showing the reg no., make and model of your car and told you it belonged to me; - oh and lets not forget - it doesn't have your name on the document - but the car details are there - and the previous owners name, address are - I must be right, that the car belongs to me - would you give me the car???

 

I think NOT!!.....

 

Whoever the Bos belongs to needs to know that it fails to meet the undertaking taken by the Trader with the Office of Fair Trading in feb 06 and the relevant laws.

 

My opinion is that they cannot just turn up on unsuspecting consumers and claim title to a car by virtue of a stand alone Bill of Sale.....

 

There is a definate argument that is:- You are not the person on the Bill of Sale - for it to be valid and applicable to you - it would have to have your name/address on it and be supported by a CCA with your name and details on as well...... I advocate that anyone in such a position need only prove title by virtue of your registration docs as issued by the DVLA and your birth certificate and proof of adddress - this may have to be done in a court of law - because of the alleged reputation of the particular trader in question. I would happily put the BoS in front of a judge and show that I am not the person it refers to - and argue that I can show proof of purchase - it would then be upto the trader to prove otherwise. I feel confident that a Judge would have to consider that the Trader must pursue the person mentioned on the bill of sale - because effectively the person who sold the car on - has left the trader with a claim against them for the money outstanding on the cca and they would have to sue that person based on the evidence that you provide (i.e log book, reg docs and receipt all in your name) - where they can evidence that the person that ACTUALLY owes them has sold the car on.

 

How on earth can you be expected to know if the trader is truly owed any money by the previous owner - because they say so - I think NOT.

 

Have you seen any complaints against any other Company who come after unsuspecting consumers in this way on this forum? - I haven't - It's only this Trader that allegedly takes this type of action - how they get away with it is beyond the pale in my personal opinion!

 

From this forum you will note that a number of consumers have taken to hiding their cars away whilst they deal with the Trader. This may be a step you should consider taking as well???

 

I hope this makes some sense and can help point you to an alternative approach to dealing with the position you find yourself in?

 

apple : )

[EDDT1]

Thanks for the time you have spent on that Apple, it is much appreciated. Yes the way in which you have explained it does make sense. But it the same way can Log Book Loans not prove they own the car? On the full HPI report I did it says they will own the car until outstanding finance has been settled. In fact I will post a copy of that up aswell.

 

What would be an alternative way of dealing with the situation, just so I know my options.

 

Again, thanks for your time!

 

Ed

[EDDT1]

hpi report

Edited November 2, 2009 by EDDT1

[EDDT1]

hpi 2

 

Edited November 2, 2009 by EDDT1

[trooper68]

Outstanding finance

The vehicle is owned by a Leasing / Hire Company and ownership will not pass to you unless the finance is

settled.

 

Recorded against

VRM

 

Description

 

TT QUATTRO 225 BJP

 

Date

 

19/04/2006

 

Finance house

 

LOG BOOK LOANS LTD

 

Finance house telephone

 

0870 033 9530

 

Agreement reference

 

F033609679

 

Agreement type

 

Lease

 

We recommend that you use

the details provided to contact

the finance company to

determine the current status of

the finance secured against

this VRM

 

 

Hi EDDT1

 

I have question, how many owners has the car had on the logbook?

 

trooper68

[EDDT1]

Hi Trooper, it had had 9. I think 5/6 of which have been in the last 3 years since the loan was taken out.

 

Thanks,

Ed

[trooper68]

Hi Trooper, it had had 9. I think 5/6 of which have been in the last 3 years since the loan was taken out.

 

Thanks,

Ed

 

 

Ahh, this makes sense, the i could be the last owner didn't know. LBL have a habit of defaulting after they find the car, since it put in your name they found your car after running checks.

 

I'm not 100% sure, but, from what I understand is that you purchased the car in good faith, you have a recipt yes? can you get a statemant from the previous owner?

 

If i understand correctly the BoS fails if it has been passed on to a number of owners (not sure how many i'll look it up), I understand that the BoS is becomes void. You can go to court (county) and egta injunction to stop them taking it, if they do they are in trouble, this gives you time then to act on the BoS to get it removed/lifted from the High Court. Personally I would make a statment to the Police and get a crime number, you may have been a victim of a crime, with the crime number and court order LBL will be in a very bad position if they acted.

 

And looking at the BoS you have pasted up its very "bare" sometimes they are tied in with an credit agreement, my be they know who got the loan and cannot find them, they just go after the car as its easy.

 

i'll will keep a keen eye on your post to see the outcome.

 

trooper68

[EDDT1]

Cheers for that Trooper, if you could look up how many owners it would need to have had since the loan was taken out for it to fail that would be great!

 

Ed

[EDDT1]

Could anyone tell me if a Bill of Sale would be stamped by the court on the same day as it is filed, or could this be days apart?

 

Ed

[applecart]

Hi EDDT1

 

Trooper had the 'angle' on your question about the Hpi stuff; so I won't interfere there : )

 

If a Bill of Sale arrives at the HCJ after 1.00pm on say the Monday - it will not be registered as received until the following day.

 

For clarity there will be a stamp on the BoS confirming the day the money was received along side the sum paid for the registration in Black ink. Horizontally printed (crossways is what I mean here)

 

A stamp with a date denoting the registered date in Black ink

 

A stamp confirming receipt of the document on all copies is found in red ink

 

(all the above should be found on one document)

 

One more stamp to confirm the registered date will be on the back of the last document in black ink along with the reference number of the registration along with the red stamp

 

So.... it will be the date that appears in black ink in a round circle that is found on 2 of the documents that is the date you go by.

 

The other important date to check this off against is the date that the debtor signed the CCA or the date showing at the top of the Bos

 

In general it would never be 'days' apart - the HCJ is only closed on the official bank holidays - If it was to be delays of days apart - I'm sure there would be more than one that would have been caught up in such a delay and considerig the precise terms of the legislation regarding making sure it is registered in time - the HCJ would inform the lender and request they make an application to 'rectify'. If the lender does not apply to 'rectify' then the document will remain on the register 'without prejudice'

 

Hope this helps : )

[EDDT1]

Thanks for that Apple, never expected to recieve this kind of in depth help.

 

I have only got a scanned in copy of the BoS, there are two dates on this. On the first page it states the agreement was made on the 19/04/2006, this must have also been the date the BoS was signed. Then on the third and final page there is a single stamp Spreme Court of England and Wales, dated 02/05/2006.

 

Now do I need to send off for an actually copy of the Bill of Sale, am I right in thinking you need to pay £5 and send off by post to find out when it was registered.

 

Do you think it is worth taking this further or would it be best to try and come to some sort of agreement with LBL for them to transfer ownership into my name? I know it would be costly, but the longer it drags on I suppose the greater their chance of finding the car.

 

Thanks again.

 

Ed

Edited November 3, 2009 by EDDT1

[applecart]

Hi EDDT1

 

I try my best to give a full explanation when I respond, because I'm conscious that the forum attracts 'guest' viewers - who just want to gather info to assist them rather than posting new threads or registering and I think it's better that way. Hope you don't mind? (I also take this opportunity to correct something - the time should show as any applications for registration that arrive after 10.30 am are left over to the following day - not 1.00pm - apologies for the confusion)

 

Now....did you mean the 02/05/09??? or have you stated correctly as; 02/05/06???

 

Copies from the HCJ cost no more than £5.00 if you can supply the Bos Registered number and the name, address & postcode of the parties to the Bos - request a copy of any/all documents held under the reference.

 

I doubt whether the trader can locate the car - so long as the address where it is kept is not registered to the car - they will be searching for the perverbial 'needle in a haystack'

 

Try not to visit the car - in case they may be following your movements.

 

Put it away and be prepared to deal with the issue first; through court if the need arises.

 

If the paperwork comes back and it appears invalid - then I realise now; that you can send it off to the OFT (look for the contact name of Julita on the announcements section of the forum - she may come back to you confirming, what you need to know)

 

If you can get the OFT to confirm it is invalid - shoot a copy of their response email to the trader with a letter threatening your express intention to take the matter to court. : )

 

After all - the trader is aware that their licence is revoked and that they only trade whilst any appeal ensues - so this gives them an opportunity to do the right thing by you.

 

Dare I say, it may help them with their appeal if they can show they are looking to put things right as often as they can and in their case - they will have plenty of opportunity to show that they can (hope their looking in : )

 

No way do you give in, No way.

 

Apple

[EDDT1]

Sorry about the dates, I have edited the last post.

 

Thanks again Apple, very informative.

 

There's no way I can request a copy of any/all documents held under the reference by phone/email? Has to be done by post?

 

Ed