kaz3571 V Cabot

[kaz3571]

hi all

gonna reopen this as things are moving on recieved a letter from morgan soliciters informing me i am in default and the whole amount is now payable immediatly.that it is an important letter and i am obliged to respond by virtue of the pre action protocols within the cpr rules.if i dont respond within a month they will commence legal action. so ive been through my paperwork looking for which route to take wheter to defend on the suspect agreement posted at beginning of thread or the default which was registered in sep 2007.on going through my paperwork i have found a letter telling me about the default notice they are issueing and a very ametuerish attempt at a default notice which i am posting below.any guidance on the route to take and my responce would be appreciated.

 

kaz

img003.jpg picture by kaz446655 - Photobucket

 

this default notice is not edited in any way it shows no account info sums or anything

[silverfox1961]

OOH you must be so scared. Now roll over and play dead. That's good

I hope you noticed the sarcasm in my writing. Not at you. At these so called professionals who can't even send out a valid default notice.

 

In my humble opinion (and everyone else who responds) this is another attempt at a threat-o-gram.

 

You have to respond by virtue of pre-action protocols. Don't make me laugh.

 

The only time to respond is if court papers are issued and not before however you may wish to bait them a little by sending the "bemused" letter:

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/574-letter-when-account-has-been-passed-on-whilst-agreement-request-is-in-dispute

[kaz3571]

hi

well they carried through their threat of legal action claim pack hit the step today. poc reads the claimant is assignee of abbey nat. loan number. notice has been given in writing despite demanad for payment it remains due. after all the reading and info ive digested on this site ive now turned to jelly. i believe i must acknowledge (should i do this straight away or wait as i only recieved this morning. do i send cpr (which one ???) what do i request 1. agreement 2. default notice (from original creditor) (both these posted earlier in post) 3. notice of asignment. also will i defend on the default notice or the agreement. any help id be greatful for.

[kaz3571]

Anybody able to nudge me in the right direction with this

[silverfox1961]

Hi Kaz.

 

I'm going to alert one of the site team to move this thread to Legal Issues as Cabot have decided to get silly with you.

 

In the mean time, did you receive a default notice or letter of termination?

Did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

[kaz3571]

hi silverfox thanks for your input. the only default notice i recieved is the one posted a few messages up from abbey. it has no dates on it sums or anything. no termination notice and yes to assinment from cabot along with letter from abbey in same letter with same ref numbers on the letterhead so obviously printed by cabot. the default notice did come with a letter from abbey as well

[silverfox1961]

Well part of your defence of this is that the default is invalid and the account was unlawfully terminated. All they can try to get out of you will be the arrears up to the termination date.

Try not to worry too much as once this has been moved to legal issues, the good people there will help.

[kaz3571]

thanks i sort of knew that and have spent the last year building knowledge and preparing myself for the day a court pack hit the door step. however when it did all the preparation goes out the window and you hit the panic button

[sea-sidelady]

Thread moved

[r&b]

hi KAZ,

no need to panic ill just throw in a few of my ideas.

im sure u know u have 14 days plus 5 for service, from the date on the claim form, in which to complete ur AOS (i assume its thru northampton bulk ctr?) online using the password on the right side of the claim form. u then have a further 14 days in which to enter a defence.

if that agmt is as illegible as it looks, you will need to seek disclosure of a legible copy of the loan agmt (and hope u get the same copy;)). the DN fails on almost every lvl. u can ask for another copy of the NOA but also go for the Deed Of Assignment which is the real document for them taking on the account (and they wont like it). did u get a letter threatening court action at all?

how much is the claim for roughly?

i wud suggest, if u havent dun so already, a SAR (it takes 40 days as u will be aware but the court process can be long and drawn out so may produce useful info further on). my thoughts are, depending on whether it will be fast track or SCT a CPR31.14 rqst for the docs mentioned in the POC or a CPR18 rqst for all info required (i understand part 18 rqst will need to be fast/multi track). give any rqst 7 days to reply as u may need to send reminders for non-compliance.

u have plenty of time so sit back have a look at the docs and any letters and assess where u are. the DN alone looks like u have some ammo.

[kaz3571]

o.k ive linked all the the agreement and defaults as only half the original thread copied over. The claim is for just over 3 thou. i did recieve a letter from morgan sols about a month ago threatining court action if not paid in full.

 

agreement and yes it is that unreadable.

http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww279/kaz446655/abbeyagreement.jpg

 

default notice unedited

http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww279/kaz446655/img003.jpg

 

letter accompnting default

http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww279/kaz446655/img004.jpg

[kaz3571]

ok what i really need to know is which cpr number to send as there seem to be so many and are there any template leters for this.

[r&b]

as it wud pob be best to keep it to SCT to keep potential costs down, i personally wud send a 31.14 :

Getting Them To Reveal Their Vitals. Using CPR 31.14 to Your Advantage - The Consumer Forums

 

it may be a gd idea to read up on the relevant CPRs so u have an idea of wot u r sending and why.

link to CPR shud be in my sig if not a google bring it straight up for u.

[kaz3571]

thanks for your input r & b ive been reading lightly due to being at work for 12 hours today and it appears with 31.14 i can only ask for docs mentioned in the poc. the poc reads:-

 

The claimant is the assignee of a debt(s) from abbey national plc.

loan reference *******,

notice of assignment having been given to the defendent in writing.despite demand for payment 3000ish remains due.the claimant claims 3000ish and interest under s.69 county courts act 1984 and costs.

 

so that means all i can request is the NOA which i have.

 

still need to read more about the differing cpr numbers but it seems id be better going for the part 18 route then i can seek all documents.any thoughts on this ???

 

kaz

[r&b]

yes i believe that is the case however, its my understanding, and im happy to be corrected, that a part 18 request is better suited to fast/multi track rather than SCT, which is why i suggested a 31.14.

it doesnt however, as a LIP, who may not have a full grasp of the CPR;), prevent you from asking for the other docs, they might just not provide them. my opinion of course.

[kaz3571]

so it seems yhat i should 31.14 them for all the paperwork i require, and hope they just send it all. i have the default notice above which is useless in every respect and means i can defend on unlawful recission which is the way i am leaning but on 31.14 they dont really need to sdsend the default notice especially since this is with the o.c anyway.so they could come up with a real d.n during proceeding and claim i have had it.any thoughts from anyone whether im going down the right track or not.

 

kaz

[kaz3571]

my aos has been submitted but i didnt see howw long i have to file defence and i cant find it now anyone advise how long i get ???/

kaz

[kaz3571]

ok sent cpr 34.16 for all the items listed in their responce all i got back was another copy of the agreement posted a few threads up and statement.feel like im being fobbed off with the rest.have to submit my defence very soon and not sure which way to go.the default notice abbey sent (posted above as well is laughable) but according to this letter it has no meaning in this case anyway. any thoughts from you more informed people ???

 

http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww279/kaz446655/img005.jpg

 

http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww279/kaz446655/img006.jpg

[kaz3571]

hi

been to court didnt have a clue what i was doing or what to say but as it happened i didnt need to say anything. The judge said it all and deemed the agreemnet unenforceable due to the agreement being a top up loan and no details of the previous loan being declared on the agreement. Im going to call this a victory but they have 28 days to counter all the points of law the judge threw at them although the judge appeared to be saying that they wouldnt. CABOT 0 ME 1 oh to see that soliciter squirm was worth every penny.

[Hadituptohere]

Congrats and well done Kaz

 

Hadituptohere

[kaz3571]

hi all

just need a little advice on costs. the judge said as in small claims track there would be no costs other than court fees this has confused me as i had a letter from the soliciters for costs of nearly 2000. I never sent a costs letter as i only recieved theirs a few days before court and im not sure what i can claim if anything due to what the judge said. I am very confident of a win in this case so wish to ram my bill for costs where the sun dont shine preferbly on mr morgan but ill settle for his slimey sidekick.

[kaz3571]

hi

o.k unanswerable question now where does it state that a creditor/dca must produce the original agreement in court and not just a very poor copy. ive read many posts stating that the original must be produced and various reasons why but no one provided anything official stating that the original must be produced. Lots of hearsay like would you buy a house with copies of deeds would you buy a car with cvopy of log book.

 

hope somebody can answer this so i have some ammunition should i need it for second round with cabot

[Hadituptohere]

CPR Practice direction 16 para 7.3

 

7.3

 

Where a claim is based upon a written agreement:

 

(1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing,

 

Hope this helps

 

Hadituptohere

[kaz3571]

thanks hasit thats what i was looking for spent all day searching for something that said that. Now i wont look a completer idiot if i have to ask for them. hopefully it wont come to that as their feeble attempt to overturn what the judge said last time i dont think will wash with him but you never know.

[Hadituptohere]

Good luck with this, have you received anything from the courts yet, do you know if cabot/morgans have filled anything in court the 28 days are almost up arent they?

 

Hadituptohere