House sold, FENCE DISPUTE matter ... Please help!!

[papadak]

I am putting this out there as I need some urgent answers please.

 

Late spring I replaced fencing between 2 houses. My neighbour agreed to pay for the cost, we said we'll split the bill, they said no that's fine just present the agreed invoice. Work was completed to a high standard and the bill was presented. We heard nothing for 14 days so I called to ask for a cheque. Was then told 'not our problem you pay for it' Of course that left me speechless. However I remained calm, issued another invoice by recorded post. Was then told the invoice was too much and will not be dealing with you anymore on that basis. My partner witnessed the original conversation and another one thereafter so can testify what was said. I have since sent 3 more requests for payment even offering to split the bill.

 

That was 4 months ago and still I hear nothing - complete silence. Then the For Sale board goes up and then I hear within 1 week the house has been SOLD.

 

I am at the point where I am thinking of going to court with this matter. Can i please receive some advice and comments what I should do next. Does the vendors Hipps form require notification of a neighbour dispute?

 

I look forward to hearing back with your help ... Thank you

[PGH7447]

it depends on which fence you repaired, I always believed it was bottm fence and right hand fence that the owner had responsibility for

 

could be wrong

[Mrs E Blackadder]

Depends which way you are standing! If I stand with my back to the front door and facing towards the road, it is the fence to the right which is mine. The fence to the left belongs to the house on the left.

[papadak]

it depends on which fence you repaired, I always believed it was bottm fence and right hand fence that the owner had responsibility for

 

could be wrong

 

Yes you could be right. However in this case it was agreed verbally (yes I know in writing is best, i've since learned this) and the bill was offered to be split. So this is not a boundary issue/dispute. This is a principal matter now and I'm sure any judge/court would see how fair & reasonable I've been throughout this process. Giving plenty of time to pay etc

[PGH7447]

trouble is it is your word against his, what you could do if he got the posh side of the fence is to take it down and put up the rough side facing his garden

[PGH7447]

Depends which way you are standing! If I stand with my back to the front door and facing towards the road, it is the fence to the right which is mine. The fence to the left belongs to the house on the left.

 

which is what I said the fence on the right looking from your property

[papadak]

trouble is it is your word against his, what you could do if he got the posh side of the fence is to take it down and put up the rough side facing his garden

 

The fence itself is of a high quality whichever way it faces. These people went from nice, chatty charming to ignorant overnight. Amazing. Don't want to let this go based on principal

[Bookworm]

Yes you could be right. However in this case it was agreed verbally (yes I know in writing is best, i've since learned this) and the bill was offered to be split. So this is not a boundary issue/dispute. This is a principal matter now and I'm sure any judge/court would see how fair & reasonable I've been throughout this process. Giving plenty of time to pay etc

I'm not so sure. If this is "your" fence, then a judge could see that you tried to get the neighbour to pay for 1/2 of something he shouldn't have had to in the first place. If it is "his" fence, then the judge may be more inclined to believe you.

 

And yes, it is the right hand side looking from the front door which is your responsability (so the left hand side if standing from the back door towards the end of the garden, obviously )

[papadak]

I'm not so sure. If this is "your" fence, then a judge could see that you tried to get the neighbour to pay for 1/2 of something he shouldn't have had to in the first place. If it is "his" fence, then the judge may be more inclined to believe you.

 

And yes, it is the right hand side looking from the front door which is your responsability (so the left hand side if standing from the back door towards the end of the garden, obviously )

 

We are now talking 6 months since the work was done. I've issued 5 invoice copies now. I've done everything possible to be fair and responsible throughout - why would any judge or court not see in my favour.

[hightail]

Depends which way you are standing! If I stand with my back to the front door and facing towards the road, it is the fence to the right which is mine. The fence to the left belongs to the house on the left.

 

My deeds clearly say otherwise for my property. There may be a general rule but it won't always apply.

[Bookworm]

We are now talking 6 months since the work was done. I've issued 5 invoice copies now. I've done everything possible to be fair and responsible throughout - why would any judge or court not see in my favour.

Because regardless of any invoicing etc... if this was "your" fence, then it was your responsability and you shouldn't have asked the neighbours to chip in in the first place. Don't you see?

 

If the fence was "theirs", then a judge may decide, on the balance of probabilities, that you are telling the truth. If it was yours, he may well decide that you are not and trying to get your neighbours to pay half of something they don't have to and that wouldn't look good on you.

 

YOU know the truth, your neighbours know the truth, but the judge can only go by the evidence in front of him and the balance of probabilities.

[IdaInFife]

i wonder how many people have been standing or imagining standing at their doors and checking to see what 'their' fence is - i did

 

you learn something new at least 5 times a day on here

[papadak]

Because regardless of any invoicing etc... if this was "your" fence, then it was your responsability and you shouldn't have asked the neighbours to chip in in the first place. Don't you see?

 

If the fence was "theirs", then a judge may decide, on the balance of probabilities, that you are telling the truth. If it was yours, he may well decide that you are not and trying to get your neighbours to pay half of something they don't have to and that wouldn't look good on you.

 

YOU know the truth, your neighbours know the truth, but the judge can only go by the evidence in front of him and the balance of probabilities.

 

I read and understand what you are saying. This was never a matter of boundaries. The original fencing was unsafe with jagged edges. I have pictures when the 'old' fencing was up showing this. It was my neighbour that was keen to have this done. I have been shafted here and I am not happy about it. I've done everything right from the beginning and potentially I could lose out here. That's not fair!

[PGH7447]

I read and understand what you are saying. This was never a matter of boundaries. The original fencing was unsafe with jagged edges. I have pictures when the 'old' fencing was up showing this. It was my neighbour that was keen to have this done. I have been shafted here and I am not happy about it. I've done everything right from the beginning and potentially I could lose out here. That's not fair!

 

I bet he did, when the new neighbour arrives ask them if the old neighbour said look at the nice new fence

[kiptower]

normally the resident that has the support post on their side of the fence is the owner, however it should be on your deeds, check that out

 

I have seen cases where the end house owns both left and right hand fences

 

and sometimes fences are replaced , often in Local Council property's where the support gets put in the wrong side , then the tennant buys the property, house gets sold on and then the a battle starts of who owns the fence

[Bookworm]

From your reply, I take it you have realised you've been had? That it was your side of the fence and that you therefore have to bear the whole cost?

 

Look at it this way, since it is yours anyway, would you have done a worse job when it came to fix it? The reality is that the neighbours could have insisted on you maintaining your side anyway, so really apart from the fact you tried to get them to pay for something which you had no right to ask for, you haven't really lost anything since you would have had that expense sooner or later.

 

I would imagine that they agreed to paying half then when going through the sale would have realised that this fence was not their responsability and decided not to pay for it, which is what most people would do under the circumstances I would have thought.

 

So no, I don't think you have been shafted, it's just a shame that neither of you thought of checking obligations and responsabilities before all this happened. You think you've been shafted, they think you tried to con them...

[lihi]

My parents own / are responsible for the fence on the right, it's definitely worth you checking your deeds before you take this matter further.

 

Bookwork is 100% right. You have no right to ask or expect half back on the cost for a fence that falls under your ownership/responsibility. You need to determine this by checking the deeds.

 

I doubt they would have sold their house based on a fence dispute, maybe during the sale process it was brought to their attention it wasn't their responsibility and as Bookworm said they thought you tried to con them and hence they go from pleasant to ignorant BUT if they are responsible you should hurry up and check the deeds and follow up with court process.

[hightail]

normally the resident that has the support post on their side of the fence is the owner

 

This is custom because you can only put up a fence within your property. Support posts are conventionally 6" square so you'd lose the use of a 6" strip of your garden if you boarded your own side.

 

In this case I don't think it matters whose fence it is. The OP chose to put up a fence because he wanted a better one than the existing structure. Even if it does belong to the neighbour, unless the deeds say otherwise there is no requirement for a fence and certainly not for any particular type of fence. The neighbour could probably have put in chicken wire if he'd wanted. My deeds say which fences I'm responsible for maintaining if there is a fence there. They don't say I have to have fences - some do though and some specify the type of fencing that must be used.

[Aequitas]

it depends on which fence you repaired, I always believed it was bottm fence and right hand fence that the owner had responsibility for

 

could be wrong

 

You are!

 

There is no rule of law that says you are responsible for any given boundary.

 

Whose responsibility it was seems to me to be of no relevance in any event. The OP says:

 

My neighbour agreed to pay for the cost, we said we'll split the bill, they said no that's fine just present the agreed invoice.

 

Do we need to go any further?

[labrat]

quick question, is that the right hand fence looking from the road towards the property? i alway thought it was the left, my neighbours replaced our right hand fence, ive replaced the left

 

on the boundry documents is there any marks to demonate which fence your responcibility for example on our fences all the fences have a ¬ mark on, the one on the left fence comes into our garden, the one on the rear goes behind, the one on the right goes into the neighbours

[hightail]

My deeds state that the fences I am responsible for are marked with x symbols on the line denoting the boundary. They're quite clear - little blue crosses drawn in. My house is over a hundred years old, modern properties may well have other strange but significant symbols on the deeds which don't mean much to a layman.

[Aequitas]

Whatever the deeds say as to responsibility it is almost certain that the obligations are no longer enforceable. See here: Garden Law Discussion :: View topic - Fencing and other positive covenants

 

Anyway, this is not relevant. What is relevant is that you undertook to replace the fence relying on your neighbour's promise to pay half the cost.

[hightail]

Unfortunately it's evidence of that promise which is missing.

 

they said no that's fine just present the agreed invoice

 

The invoice obviously isn't agreed. Doesn't seem like much was agreed at all.

[labrat]

well the back fence has just about fallen down, i was advised by the lawyers that it was only the left fence i need to worry about when i brought the house (which ive recently replaced), been worrying about them approching me for money for a while now, however the fence is around 4 foot higher than our garden as its on the next layer of land up so i was going to refer them to the deeds

[wheresmyhairgone]

I hope the farmer who owns the 6 acre field to the right of my house is`nt reading this thread. Now that would be a big invoice.