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    • Hi.   Could you let us have the information requested in the forum sticky please? This will help us to advise you. In the meantime don't worry too much about this.     HB  
    • So last August my girlfriend went to Legoland with the kids (4 & 8) and her mum and then went to Pizza Express in Windsor. They parked at Castle Car Park.    They paid to park and went to eat. They were then a few minutes late back. There was already an attendant issuing a ticket. The attendant then waited until my girlfriend was over ten minutes late to issue the ticket despite her being there well within any grace period.   My girlfriend appealed to Ultimate Customer Solutions end of August but did not receive a response (they later said they emailed a rejection which my girlfriend never received until it was resent). Then in August she received the first debt collection letter. Then my girlfriend was advised to respond to UCS requesting an Subject Access Request (SAR) which they have not ever acknowledged or responded to.    So then we thought they had gone away until we received a letter from CSB solicitors (same address as UCS) advising they would be beginning court proceedings against my girlfriend. I told my girlfriend to complain that they haven't responded to any of our requests so she called the number of UCS and was basically accused of being rude to the t*** at the end of the phone. She wasn't but he wasn't very helpful and said they had responded to the appeal and sent it again. This was on the 16th January 2020.    On the 29th Jan this was sent after another chase to the solicitors:   I have reported UK Parkings ltd to the ICO as they are in beach of GDPR having ignored my SAR request. Further to this I was not notified that my initial appeal had been rejected and therefore cannot further appeal in a standard way and therefore I am awaiting further advice for ways to appeal against this unfair PCN.   As it stands should you decide to further contact me in regards to this matter without good cause I shall be seeking legal advice as per my statutory rights.   My girlfriend then received another letter from UCS threatening debt collectors (I told her not to worry about this) and so she wrote to the solicitors asking for an update:   Email dated 21/02/2020 I am writing to you regarding my email sent on 29th January, below. I still have not received a response from you and I left a voicemail for a solicitor to call me from CSB Solicitors, which I have also not received. I would like to speak to a solicitor regarding this PCN.   The solicitor responded via email the following: Dear Madam,   Thank you for your email.   Following your email below, we reverted this matter back to our Client for their instructions. We will only be able to respond more fully once these are received.   At this stage we have no further instructions other than to send out a letter to you dated 16 January 2020.   We hope to be able to respond more fully once these are received.   Yours faithfully,   Solicitor   So UCS are not actually doing anything they should do but nobody we have complained to has actually come back to us so not sure where to take this because I don't have time for court and I would rather just have someone take the (insert appropriate word here) to task on these unbelievably poor practices!   Any advice on next steps?   Thanks    
    • Hi Sneezer and thanks for your Site Donation which is much needed and much appreciated.   The info from the "Solicitor" makes sense if you were complaining about how CRS came to have your contact details. However, this is not relevant to your case. You didn't cancel properly and carried on paying for a gym you didn't use.   For the future, see the Guide here about how to cancel a contract properly and avoid trouble - https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/383678-cancelling-your-gym-agreement-get-it-right/     Come back anytime to update us but don't worry about CRS or anyone else who makes demands. Let us know if you need more for advice and reassurance.    
    • They were communicating with lawyers associated to me too   They can’t serve a SD on your lawyers, only you.   As I said earlier - the lawyer stopped communicating  around the date on the SD they incorrectly served.  And the bank told me the receiver was now handling things and not to deal with them anymore.   The receiver never asked me where I was.  But he did email and I did reply or he did get auto reply.   Since I did have email communication with them - I don't think they could say they did everything possible to find me,  All they had to do was ask!  And then we could have discussed the situation.    It almost is the reverse - they did nothing to try find me.  And if a PI is employed to do surveillance then he must have realised only one person - the wrong one - lived at the  wrong address.   Does anyone have any info re post #26 and #28 above?   The property is being marketed for sale and the receiver is negotiating offers, so there was no reason for me to expect bank/ lawyers to be trying to locate me to serve any papers.      Surely any loss to them has to be proven upon an agreed sale.  It hasn't sold yet,   They may still get a high enough offer to prevent any large debt?  There could then be a different discussion re terms of repayment?   So I was not expecting anyone to be trying to find me!   But this is a bit of a digression from what  should I be doing NOW? Should I send them an SAR?  If they do intend to serve me correctly this would be useful, yes?   I am sure they have added all sorts of unnecessary costs to the debt that could be challenged?   Also there is a question over if they even had a valid notice of assignment?  They would have to produce that in the SAR wouldn't they?   This was a real query for me ages ago but it never got pursued legally.
    • Expect them to bring up every communication and claim that you’ve been dodging them / not providing them with an address to serve to.......
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ABC1

Caught using my husband's annual Travelcard

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 502 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

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'Penalty Fare' was part of the website address, I wasn't referring to anything.

 

Well, you have forced a further response there rebel11.

 

As I said, an old article previously discussed two months ago on this and other forums.

 

The whole article was concerned with Penalty fares and if you had actually read and understood it fully, you would have taken note of the last paragraph, which made clear the distinction concerning fare evasion, which is an entirely separate and more serious matter.

Edited by Old-CodJA

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Firstly I haven to say that to have 'experts' opinion on certain topics within CAG is invaluable, so thanks to Old-Codja.

 

I also found the link to the newspaper article quite interesting, especially the part about not buying a ticket as machines broken, huge queues, etc. i found myself in this situation recently and the inspector was telling me allsorts of rubbish, however she was called away to deal with a troublesome passenger and we didnt discuss it any more and I continued my journey without a ticket.

 

The part about using it purely as revenue raising was interesting, i do believe that Ken Livingstone touched on this when he was 'caught' without a ticket.

 

Could someone point to the thread on here (or another site) that discusses it in more detail as Old-Codja mentioned.

 

Thanks

 

Andy

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Firstly I haven to say that to have 'experts' opinion on certain topics within CAG is invaluable, so thanks to Old-Codja.

 

I also found the link to the newspaper article quite interesting, especially the part about not buying a ticket as machines broken, huge queues, etc. i found myself in this situation recently and the inspector was telling me allsorts of rubbish, however she was called away to deal with a troublesome passenger and we didnt discuss it any more and I continued my journey without a ticket.

 

The part about using it purely as revenue raising was interesting, i do believe that Ken Livingstone touched on this when he was 'caught' without a ticket.

 

Could someone point to the thread on here (or another site) that discusses it in more detail as Old-Codja mentioned.

 

Thanks

 

Andy

 

There certainly are issues that were worthy of further exploration, but as I recall, the publisher of the original article advised that CAG were required to remove the discussion & link.

 

I'm sure that the site team will correct me if I'm wrong and I apologise if that is the case, but that is how I remember it.

 

I recall a thread on MSE too. but I've just had a look and can find nothing on there now either.

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There certainly are issues that were worthy of further exploration, but as I recall, the publisher of the original article advised that CAG were required to remove the discussion & link.

 

I'm sure that the site team will correct me if I'm wrong and I apologise if that is the case, but that is how I remember it.

 

I recall a thread on MSE too. but I've just had a look and can find nothing on there now either.

 

Aha..That what the earlier posts were refering to...Didnt know about the legal action. Its a pity when stuff like that happens, especially when it concerns the previously uncensored Internet.

 

Andy

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The article that was in the paper actually contained some errors, with regards to queueing times etc you could still be "done" for byelaw 18.

 

As for TOC's using PF's as a revenue raising tool I don't agree, Penalty fares and UPFN's are all dealt with by a third party and it certainly isn't free, I do recall a manager once saying that it cost's the TOC £5.00 to process a UPFN about 10 years ago, so it would probably cost the same for a Penalty fare which are usually processed by the same company as UPFN's, bear in mind at that time the Penalty fare was only £10.00.

 

Each TOC i've worked for has always maintained that Penalty fares are a deterrent.


Views expressed in this forum by me are my own personal opinion and you take it on face value! I make any comments to the best of my knowledge but you take my advice at your own risk.

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The article that was in the paper actually contained some errors, with regards to queueing times etc you could still be "done" for byelaw 18.

 

As for TOC's using PF's as a revenue raising tool I don't agree, Penalty fares and UPFN's are all dealt with by a third party and it certainly isn't free, I do recall a manager once saying that it cost's the TOC £5.00 to process a UPFN about 10 years ago, so it would probably cost the same for a Penalty fare which are usually processed by the same company as UPFN's, bear in mind at that time the Penalty fare was only £10.00.

 

Each TOC i've worked for has always maintained that Penalty fares are a deterrent.

 

These are good points, but Penalty Fares are entirely unconnected with the OP on this thread.

 

I would be very happy to see a sensible debate on the subject, without referring to links to the article that caused CAG a problem.

 

Perhaps, if people want to air their views on whether PFs are a legitimate revenue stream in their own right, this should be a wholly new thread thereby avoiding confusing penalty fares with fare evasion and avoiding the likelihood of giving the OP innaccurate advice.

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Hi ABC

 

I've been reading your post about you geting caught using your husband's travel pass and wanted to know what the outcome was in the end.

 

I gave my husbnad my monthly pass to use with his photo ID and he got caught with it this morning. The inspector said to expect a letter soon with a fine and that he will get a criminal record.

 

We will of course pay the fine but want to avoid a criminal record. Your advice on this is much appreciated.

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Season tickets are not transferable.

 

If this is a first offence, it may be that you will be able to pay an out of court settlement.

 

But: The Train operator has a strong position on this one, 'husband' seems to have committed an offence which can be prosecuted in a Magistrates Court, and on the face of it, you could be prosecuted for aiding and abetting the offence.

 

I dare say that the Inspector will have done some research, and looked at both your season ticket histories, as well as any known 'previous'. (penalty fares, previous reported offences, dubious season refunds and so on)

 

Wait and see what sort of letter you get, and answer it as best you can. I also guess that they will want to interview you when you want a replacement monthly ticket.

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Wriggler7 - Thank you for responding back, much appreciated. I will wait and see what the letter says and take it from there.

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Excellent advice by Wriggler and pretty well mirrors the response I have given on your other thread regarding the same case.

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Thanks both Old-CodJA and Wriggler7 for taking the time to reply. Reading various posts and your responses to this type of case has been most helpful. All I can do is expect the worst and hope for the best!

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Has this matter reached a conclusion?

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We were very very lucky, the rail company decided to settle out of court, giving us a fine plus administration charges which we have now paid and the whole issue is now resolved. I will never ever being doing this again and will think before doing anything rash!!

 

Again, thank you for all your advice much appreciated.

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Can you give more detail about the procedure and what you have written to TFL? Thanks.

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SkiesTheLimit,

 

I'm glad to hear that you were able to avoid going to court.

 

How did you manage to reach a settlement with the train operating company?

 

Thanks.

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SkiesTheLimit

 

I would be very interested to hear what you wrote in your letter.

 

I was recently caught using my sister-in-law's annual travel card and have received a letter from the prosecution. I'll looking at moving to Australia and really want to avoid a criminal record.

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Every case will have unique features, and therefore will be looked at differently by the 'prosecuting authority'. Indeed, each prosecuting authority will have it's own priorities. As such, responses will need to be tailored according to the nature of the case, and the way that the train company indicates that it wishes to deal with the matter.

 

Without giving us details that identify you, please tel us more about the matter. What train company is it? What happened when you were caught?

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Thanks for your reply Wriggler7.

 

I was traveling from Kings Cross back to Harpenden after attending a job interview when the inspector requested a ticket so I presented him with the travel card. He then requested the photo ID card that accompanied the ticket to which I replied that the ticket was not mine and was unaware that the ticket had to be accompanied by the ID card. I offered the pay the fare and fine at that moment in time but was told because I had present a ticket that was not mine it would be reported.

 

Obviously he retained the ticket and having been paying my sister in law's train fare since.

 

Let me know if you need anymore details.

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Thanks for your reply Wriggler7.

 

He then requested the photo ID card that accompanied the ticket to which I replied that the ticket was not mine and was unaware that the ticket had to be accompanied by the ID card.

 

Printed on the face of all these tickets you will normally find the instruction 'Valid only when shown with Photocard number XXXXX' and on the Photo card 'Valid only when shown with a ticket bearing this number XXXXX'

 

A season ticket is valid only for use by the person to whom it is issued.

 

Any prejudicial breach of the conditions of issue may result in the ticket being withdrawn and it is a matter for the TOC whether they will reissue it.

 

You will receive a verification letter from FCC and you should wait until then before you reply, quoting their reference number and send a prompt response to the address from whence you have received their letter. Your best bet is to write an entirely truthful account of the incident and be aware that the reporting inspector will have made notes of what you said at the time.

 

Dependent on what you told them, you will be trying to persuade the prosecution manager to allow you to settle the matter without Court action.

 

When you get the letter and know what their intentions are, come back and let us know.

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Their intentions are as below:

 

travelling without a valid ticket

receiving a ticket with intent

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Their intentions are as below:

 

travelling without a valid ticket

receiving a ticket with intent

 

 

 

It seems likely that they are going for two strict liability charges there

 

1. Travelling without a valid ticket:

'fail to show a valid ticket when asked' contrary to National Railway Byelaw 18.2 (2005),

 

2. Receive a ticket with intent:

'receiving a transfered ticket with the intention of not paying the correct fare' contrary National Railway Byelaw 22.2 (2005)

 

Both carry the same penalty if convicted, a fine up to a maximum of £1000.

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We were very very lucky, the rail company decided to settle out of court, giving us a fine plus administration charges which we have now paid and the whole issue is now resolved. I will never ever being doing this again and will think before doing anything rash!!

 

Again, thank you for all your advice much appreciated.

 

 

Hi even I am in same situation.

How did you manage to reach a settlement with the train operating company?

 

could you please post your letter so that it would b very helpful for me deleting your personal details.

 

Thank You

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