gaz V egg

[gazab41]

Hi all I need some advice as quick as pos.

 

I orig had and egg card one of the approved limit variety from 2000 or there abouts this was paid as normal until finacial problems late 2004.

 

Now to the problem I was defaulted as far as I remember late 2004 but dont remember having termination Letter.

 

No statments as no access to egg online from 2004 until last month.

 

 

In late 2004/early 2005 informed by egg they would not be able to deal with me as they had sold debt to CSL .

 

I paid CSL regulerly untill this year when work dried out and only claiming JSA.

 

Now CSL keept asking me to increase payments at all times offered full and final at about £3000 when debt hovered nearer £6k.CSL also stated they own debt

 

No statments ever sent i.e oft Arrears statment so obviously not sure who much I still owe.

 

Cutting a long story short contacted by ARC stateing they want either all owing or a substantial amount followed by a plan.

 

I attempted to access egg web site my log in was still at previos address

 

I was able to see a figure owed aledgedly also credit limit statment date payment date etc.

 

I was able to go to statments however just tells me account opened recently same with the CCA part of web sites just tells me to refer to paperwork sent out recent card apparently my intrest ratew is 0.0% till december wonder if I should consider reclaiming all intrest from 2000 to now would be more than what i owe proberbly double.

 

my main point is today I recive letter purporting to be Trevor munn solicitors telling me in 10 days from date of letter there a county court claim will be made letter dated 19th Oct what with postal strike it does not give me much time.

 

I foolishly contacted them today further to a complaint I lodged with the Fos in sept about whole miss information given to me on the account and the fact after several years of no statments not even the oft arrears notices and being told account sold etc . EGG have not responded to me like everyother institution has after FOS involvement no mater what the outcome has been.

 

I was told cotogoricly by ARC bloke who point blank refused to give name just stated egg had rejectected all off my complaint refused to even discus what egg had stated and why told me to ring egg but egg proberbly would not discus it when i stated eggs payment dates on my egg online thing He stated I should not take any notice of this and I should pay them not EGG please can someone help.

 

I still have not CCA this account however they also stated that they would continue collecting even if egg could not produce agreement no chance of account being disputed.

 

I have read on here people have applied for cca via ARC/Trevor Munn and just had there po sent back telling them they should apply to egg please please help me some one

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

 

Firstly I would get the CCA request into ARC. If you are worried that they may send it back and say to go to the OC, then I would send this letter:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html#post162367

 

Or this one

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/581-cca-request-letter

 

If they still send it back, put the account into dispute with them and complain to Trading Standards.

 

Send a SAR to Egg. If Egg don't have an up to date address for you then enclose a copy of a utility bill. This is to stop them delaying their response.

 

Try to stay off the phone unless you can record the conversations

[gazab41]

Hi all managed to get cca request off to ARC yesterday after speaking to fos who told me egg had until 8th November to send me final response.

 

I have had nothing as yet in way of a response now I get Trevor Munns 2nd letter arriving today.

 

any advice please no cca on eggs site not sure what the state of play is obviously i do not want to end up with CCJ.

 

Please can some one help !

 

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/gazab_2009/treveormunn2.jpg

[the_shadow]

Hi all managed to get cca request off to ARC yesterday after speaking to fos who told me egg had until 8th November to send me final response.

 

I have had nothing as yet in way of a response now I get Trevor Munns 2nd letter arriving today.

 

any advice please no cca on eggs site not sure what the state of play is obviously i do not want to end up with CCJ.

 

Please can some one help !

 

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/gazab_2009/treveormunn2.jpg

 

Ok the letter may or may not be a threat, you need to search around for other people dealing with trevor munns and see if they do threaten and not follow through.

 

In any case if you have just sent the CCA and I'm guessing by Recorded delivery then with the postal strike its not likely to get there in time if they do wish to initiate proceedings.

 

However even if they do start a court claim that doesnt mean 100% you will get a CCJ, you do get to defend against them.

 

The fact you have the FOS involved in an ongoing dispute should be enough to show that Egg are being unreasonable and if they issue proceedings prior to that investigation finishing then it should show them in a bad light in front of a judge. Have you ever received a notice of assignment from ARC?

 

S.

[gazab41]

no have never recived notice of assignment whats one of those ?

[gazab41]

Just to confirm CCA request recived by ARC today signed for this morning

[the_shadow]

no have never recived notice of assignment whats one of those ?

 

If a debt is sold then a notice of assignment is required to be sent under the law of property, the fact you didnt receive it when it was passed to CSL would seem to indicate its Egg all along and just farming out through DCA's to get more money in.

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Just to confirm CCA request recived by ARC today signed for this morning

 

Blimey, so much for the 35million items of post in backlog then :D

 

12days to go then

 

S.

[gazab41]

just a quick update ARC sent me a letter which arrived today will post later they have refused to supply CCA and returned Postal order to me its of no use as its payable to ARC europe limited letter below

 

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/gazab_2009/arcrefusecca.jpg

[silverfox1961]

I would put the account into dispute, resend the £1 and point them to the bit in red on this link:

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/581-cca-request-letter

 

Report them to Trading Standards.

[gazab41]

just a furthur update could anyone advise on best letter to send back to arc.

please look at the letter they sent me.

 

anyone who as already had the same problem with arc please respond the postal order they returned to me is useless as its made out to ARC thanks.

[vint1954]

Gaz,

 

Ref PM, the advice you are getting neds to be followed.

 

ARC must forward the CCA request on to Egg. They do not have an option. They must forward it on to Egg. ARC have after all, told you only to deal with them.

 

This is the standard letter to send, altered slightly for ARC and egg. standard letters can be found in the Forum Library, but post back if you don't find what you need at any stage. Send this letter to ARC, c.c. this letter to Munn and Egg.

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Further to my request under the above act, your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is now subject to a serious dispute. On xxxxxxxx, by recorded delivery, I requested that you supply me a copy of the executed credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78, a copy of this request is enclosed. To date you have failed to comply with my request and have returned my statutory fee of £1, requesting that I contact Egg Direct. You will be aware that you, acting as agents for Egg have a legal duty to pass on this request to Egg. I have therefore enclosed the £1 statutory fee again and a copy of my original request.

Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you or your client, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing ( 12 working days + 2 ) to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

While this account remains in serious dispute, the relevant main points of the Law and OFT regulations while the account is in this state and ARC and Egg remain in default are:

• You may not ask for payment against this account.
  
• I am not obliged to offer any payment against this account.
  
• You cannot register any data with a third party.
  
• You cannot take any enforcement action, including registering Defaults.
  
• You cannot pass the account on to a third party for collection.
  
• You cannot sell the account.
  

Clearly as no agreement has been supplied on request, you have not complied with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly this is a situation as described in S.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

To clarify S.61(1) states

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

 

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced..

 

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as you become compliant with my request. As you are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect.

 

All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file

All collection activities cease with immediate effect until you comply with my request from 27/03/09 or such time as a court makes an enforcement order.

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on Debt Collection

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

What I Require.

 

I require that you send me a true signed copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

 

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well

 

No other correspondence will be accepted

 

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful.

I would also remind you that this account is subject to an ongoing official complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. A court would take an extremely dim veiw of any action instigated while such an investigation is live.

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Yours faithfully

[gazab41]

hi sent the above letter with minor changes ie date.

 

this sent back to ARC with copy of my orig letter sent and the PO that they returned to me .

 

Sent copy of letter to both egg and trevor munn so wait and see what happens now...

[egg-sterminator]

hi sent the above letter with minor changes ie date.

 

this sent back to ARC with copy of my orig letter sent and the PO that they returned to me .

 

Sent copy of letter to both egg and trevor munn so wait and see what happens now...

Smells a bit of fish this one ? with Shadow,Vint and Silver on side you dont really need anymore help, just to say even if it goes to ccj you can ask to have it set aside and put forward a defence that requires info from them . As they will not have or want to provide a cca they could effectivly be the ones stalling the case by not giving you info you request needed for your defence . This will at least buy you some time . Subject access request may bring something to light and if they mess you around on that one check out vints thread CRA'&OC's-creditref-reporting-discussion. Remember no signiture if they want to verify who you are the usual phone checks are sufficient .

[gazab41]

well just a quick update ARC have sent me a letter back by 1st class post.

I am gratful to Vint for letter in post 12 which i modified slightly.

 

ARC have basicly gone away they have told me the account has gone back to thier client letter only arrived with them yesterday must get refund on postal order and send new CCA request directly to egg will post reply from ARC latter.

[gazab41]

hi all recived CCA from egg a couple of days ago the old approved limit not a very good photocopy. here is what was recived.

 

page 1 credit agreement "approved limit "

page 2 "blank"

Page 3 "my signiture and date below not my hand writing I do not join up zero's also contains eggs signiture just two lines not a realy signiture in my book"

Page 4 "blank"

several pages of Prudential terms and Conditions

Up to date terms and conditions between me and them

 

Also included are the current terms and conditions of a gentleman from southampton so they have broken data protection laws im guessing on this any help and advice on next stage

Page 4 Blank

[vint1954]

Hi Gaza

 

Your signature needs to be on the same page as the prescribed terms, Credit limit or reference to it, Interest rate expressed as an APR and repayment schedule.

 

Are you saying that they have forged your signature?

 

As far as the T&C's naming another individual, complaint to the ICO and maybe let the other chap know that his data has been sent to you.

[gazab41]

Hi was wondering if anyone has a letter to send to egg as a response to a completely unenforceable agreement prescribed terms missing no default charges listed and various other cock ups mines even dated before i signed it and the handwriting for date where i signed it is not even my handwriting signiture is an old one of mine mind

[silverfox1961]

There are loads of individual letters around but I can only point you towards the template letters.

 

Letter 9

 

The Consumer Forums - Debt collectors

[vint1954]

Hi was wondering if anyone has a letter to send to egg as a response to a completely unenforceable agreement prescribed terms missing no default charges listed and various other cock ups mines even dated before i signed it and the handwriting for date where i signed it is not even my handwriting signiture is an old one of mine mind

You need to scan the agreement, minus your details and post here.

 

Who did it eventually come from, Egg?

[gazab41]

ok here is the agrement you will notice page one is the first page of aggrement with missing non prescribed terms.

 

page 2 is blank just deleted bit showing my details showing from other page

 

page 3 bit I signed however the date is not my hand writing I have never joined 00.

 

they have saved on paper by printing first page of orig terms and conditions on reverse this runs for several pages and i can post if these are useful to anyone I have 2 sets of current terms and conditions mine and a gentleman from southampton or portsmouth cant remember off top of head I am going to contact him to tell him.

 

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/gazab_2009/eggagrement.jpg

 

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/gazab_2009/eggpage2.jpg[/img]"]http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/gazab_2009/eggpage2.jpg

 

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/gazab_2009/eggpage3.jpg[/img]"]http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/gazab_2009/eggpage3.jpg

 

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/gazab_2009/eggpag4firstofseveralpagetermsandco.jpg[/img]"]:|http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/gazab_2009/eggpag4firstofseveralpagetermsandco.jpg

[vint1954]

ok here is the agrement you will notice page one is the first page of aggrement with missing non prescribed terms.

 

page 2 is blank just deleted bit showing my details showing from other page

 

page 3 bit I signed however the date is not my hand writing I have never joined 00.

 

they have saved on paper by printing first page of orig terms and conditions on reverse this runs for several pages and i can post if these are useful to anyone I have 2 sets of current terms and conditions mine and a gentleman from southampton or portsmouth cant remember off top of head I am going to contact him to tell him.

 

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/gazab_2009/eggagrement.jpg

 

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/gazab_2009/eggpage2.jpg[/img]"]http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/gazab_2009/eggpage2.jpg

 

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/gazab_2009/eggpage3.jpg[/img]"]http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/gazab_2009/eggpage3.jpg

 

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/gazab_2009/eggpag4firstofseveralpagetermsandco.jpg[/img]"]:|http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/gazab_2009/eggpag4firstofseveralpagetermsandco.jpg

Can only see the first page. The prescribed terms need to be on the same sheet as your signature. They have probably complied with s78 in the form the info is supplied, however they will need the original in court.

[nks22]

Subbing with interest as I heard from ARC on Friday. (See my latest post here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/221840-egg-dn-termination-2.html#post2769838)

[Peterbard]

HI#

hid ids compleetely enforceable ,Make a deal with the creditor, just offer what you can afford if it goes to court the judge will just rubber stamp it but odds are the credior will just get what he can and settle out of court,

 

For information the prescribed terms do not have to be on the same page as the signature, in an agreement before 2005, even after that it would only be a breach of regulations not of the legislation and would not incur section127(3), so would be enforceable by order of the court and they would enforce because the amount of predudice would be 0

 

Peter

 

Peter

[gazab41]

Ok all first im going to show what i recived as cca request from egg belive its unenforcable for a number of reasons i know the last post says it enforcable but very hard to view hence the repost