Casperlady and Howard Cohen in court next week for SJ hearing. - help?!

[diddydicky]

The solicitor and the judge had definitely been speaking before I got there. The judge told me that he had asked the solicitor to discuss the case with me beforehand, apparently to get me to admit to it after receiving all their papers. When I said I didn't want to discuss it with the solicitor, she must have known that the judge wouldn't be happy with me about that.

 

this is most definately well out of order and the judge should not be discussing the details or merits of an actual case with either party outside of court.

 

i think you have strong grounds to report this judge and to ask for a set aside and transfer to another court

[casperlady]

Well when it was suggested that they make a judgement today, I did say that I thought that today's hearing was just to decide a track and I'd like more time to submit an amended defence after receving the new information. I pretty much got shouted down. So I probably agreed to a judgement without realising that's what I was doing.

 

I did try to go straight to the CAB afterwards but they were closed, I don't know if I've already mentioned that. But I have tried the CAB before, I've tried everything I can think of to sort out this debt and nobody has been able to help me because of my lack of income.

 

Thank you for your advice about the set aside, I think that's what I must do to start with. The legal system is supposed to be fair isn't it? It just seemed that the judge and the solicitor were both against me. I suppose I will need the judgement in writing to continue? I'll have a look for that form..

[AndyOrch]

No point requesting a set a side if they had made application for Summary Judgment casper.Take a look through your paperwork and check any applications that were made or any of the Court paperwork which mentions same.In particular look for any Witness Statements made by the Claimant.

Once you eradicate any application for SJ then you can submit an N245.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[casperlady]

Thanks Andy.

 

I don't have any court paperwork from today. It was just the solicitor telling me that she was going to request a judgement, and then of course the judgement being made. Do you think I will be sent something by post? I hope so.

 

I have the witness statement from CL Finance here, and the last point says ' I... request that there be judgement in favour of CL Finance Ltd..' Is this something important that I've missed? Should I have realised that these papers were to be used today?

 

I've just been looking up lots of information on bankrupcy. It's really not for me, not within 28 days anyway. I can't run a business without a bank account, and my business, although I don't earn any money from it at the moment, is very very busy. I know if I have to do it then I have to, but if there is any way I can avoid it, I'd like to try.

[citizenB]

Thanks Andy.

 

I don't have any court paperwork from today. It was just the solicitor telling me that she was going to request a judgement, and then of course the judgement being made. Do you think I will be sent something by post? I hope so.

 

I have the witness statement from CL Finance here, and the last point says ' I... request that there be judgement in favour of CL Finance Ltd..' Is this something important that I've missed? Should I have realised that these papers were to be used today?

 

I've just been looking up lots of information on bankrupcy. It's really not for me, not within 28 days anyway. I can't run a business without a bank account, and my business, although I don't earn any money from it at the moment, is very very busy. I know if I have to do it then I have to, but if there is any way I can avoid it, I'd like to try.

 

Looks like you may have done so. Hmmm, I wonder if you have not been served with Summary Judgement form.. in which case you should have submitted any response 7 days prior to today's hearing. Although that letter from the court does specifically say that it was for directions and track allocation.

 

Somewhere there has been a muddle. Not sure how it can be resolved though.

[casperlady]

Not good. I only received these papers on the 22nd. So that wasn't 7 days prior to the hearing.. I honestly thought that today was to decide the track and I would have more time to work on my defence.

 

I did take along the three copies as suggested, but they didn't see the light of day..

[AndyOrch]

When the Claimant makes application a copy should be forwarded on to yourself along with any supporting WS.This may be either from the Court or direct from the Claimant.Furthermore notice from the Court telling you that an application had been made and that this will be considered for example at your CMC.

SJ applications can also be verified from the Claimants AQ ie have or do you intend to make any applications.This is the normal time one would be made or a least give signal that one will be made soon.

Your WS in objection would be served on the Claimant and Court not less than seven working days.

If you can argue that it wasn't then that is your starting point re set a side or vary the Order.

 

 

I trust the above is of help

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited October 27, 2009 by Andyorch

[diddydicky]

When the Claimant makes application a copy should be forwarded on to yourself along with any supporting WS.This may be either from the Court or direct from the Claimant.Furthermore notice from the Court telling you that an application had been made and that this will be considered for example at your CMC.

SJ applications can also be verified from the Claimants AQ ie have or do you intend to make any applications.This is the normal time one would be made or a least give signal that one will be made soon.

Your WS in objection would be served on the Claimant and Court not less than seven working days.

If you can argue that it wasn't then that is your starting point re set a side or vary the Order.

 

 

I trust the above is of help

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

i fully agree - it is NOT acceptable for a "line" in a statement to be the basis for a SJ application

 

the judge must have known this so there is no excuse- justice was clearly denied to you

 

you have only a limited time to appeal-

[casperlady]

Thank you so much, that's very helpful.

 

So, I should fill in the form N245, which from citizenB's helpful link I can see is an offer of a monthly payment to the creditor.

 

Do I need a statement then to accompany it to say why my offer should be considered, and why this was unfair etc?

[casperlady]

Sorry, I need to request a set aside not fill in the N245 don't I? It's been a long day!

[AndyOrch]

Sorry, I need to request a set aside not fill in the N245 don't I? It's been a long day!

 

Only if you are certain that they did make application for SJ and you were not aware.

 

If they didn't then either an appeal or a redetermination subject to how you feel about it.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[diddydicky]

Only if you are certain that they did make application for SJ and you were not aware.

 

If they didn't then either an appeal or a redetermination subject to how you feel about it.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

im no expert andy but would i be right in thinking that an application to redetermone would hurt far less financially , than an appeal?

[AndyOrch]

Hi DD

 

Well this is why you have to be sure if they have or not made application for SJ if not then that opens the gates to appeal and abuse of process.

If Casper as really had enough of it all anyway and is prepared to accept the firing squad tactics of today then yes the redetermination route is the easy option and will set affordable payments.

Only casper can decide what to do but again i stress if they have made application and the Court says yes we forwarded all the information on to you.Then you have them because they didn't.

I cant really advise the correct route until its defined that:-

 

A. Was application made if not then Set a side abuse etc

B. yes it was made but the Defendant was not informed Set a side

C. Yes everything was in order and Casper didn't realise but did get the relevant docs then its the N245 or its the n245 anyway subject to how Casper deals with all the above

 

 

Andy

Edited October 28, 2009 by Andyorch

[diddydicky]

agreed thanks

[citizenB]

Might be worth having a read of a new link that has been set up in the library.

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/51-guidance-notes/620-applying-for-a-set-aside

 

HTH

[casperlady]

Thanks citizenb I'll have a look at that now. I've been applying for jobs today. Still at a total loss about what to do - came home to three letters from three different DCAs. I usually ignore them, but after yesterday I'm not sure that's wise. All I do know is that I want to avoid bankrupcy at all costs! Even if I close down my business. I just don't know how right now!

[AndyOrch]

Thanks citizenb I'll have a look at that now. I've been applying for jobs today. Still at a total loss about what to do - came home to three letters from three different DCAs. I usually ignore them, but after yesterday I'm not sure that's wise. All I do know is that I want to avoid bankrupcy at all costs! Even if I close down my business. I just don't know how right now!

 

 

Well dont leave it too long Casperlady you only have 14 days from the date of judgment to submit the N245!!!

 

Regards

 

Andy

[casperlady]

Thank you Andy! Think the job search may take a little longer than that!

 

Right ok, I'm going to fill in the N245 right now and offer £30 per month. Does anyone know if I have to send any other information along with this form? Do I need to send a postal order for the £35 fee and a second postal order for the first £30 instalment?

[AndyOrch]

So include your first payment of £30.00 plus the £35.00.PO or cheques would suffice unless it states otherwse.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[casperlady]

Thank you, will do that tomorrow. Ouch at £65 but it's better than £6k!! I also noticed that the fee to apply for a set aside is £75. It's terrible that it went so wrong in court but I think now I just have to work on damage limitation. I'm not sure I'd be able to do the set aside, considering how I went to pieces in court yesterday.

 

Any way of knowing if they are likely to accept, or do I just need to keep my fingers crossed? The calculations that I've used on the form do show that I can afford the £30 per month BUT the only income I have is benefits..

[AndyOrch]

Thank you, will do that tomorrow. Ouch at £65 but it's better than £6k!! I also noticed that the fee to apply for a set aside is £75. It's terrible that it went so wrong in court but I think now I just have to work on damage limitation.;-) I'm not sure I'd be able to do the set aside, considering how I went to pieces in court yesterday.

 

Any way of knowing if they are likely to accept, or do I just need to keep my fingers crossed? The calculations that I've used on the form do show that I can afford the £30 per month BUT the only income I have is benefits..

 

They may reject they may accept but if you have shown the figures correctly and in line with your budget and I&E then thats all you can afford.

 

As I have stated previously once the redetermination is in place you are also protected from any Charging Orders application/Bankruptcy attempts providing you maintain and never default on the redetermination.

 

Hope all goes well for you Casperlady from here on:wink:

 

Regards

 

Andy

[casperlady]

Thank you very much Andy!

[middenmess]

Casperlady

 

I'm a bit confused as you have posted the following statements...

 

I somehow made it to work after that.

 

Even if I close down my business.

 

I can afford the £30 per month BUT the only income I have is benefits.

 

 

Can you clear this up for us please?

[casperlady]

I'm self employed and work full time but I'm unable to take any wages from my business at present, hence I receive some benefits, and this is my only income.

Edited October 28, 2009 by casperlady
to remove some information

[AndyOrch]

I wouldnt have responded to that Casper that is your buisness.Only respond to people who assist.edit out if needs be.

 

 

Andy