Default Notice recieved after account in dispute

[Blue Boo]

Hi,

I do have a thread on the DCA forum (1st credit response to CCA is default notice) but i think my problem has now ventured into the legal side of things.So i hope i am doing the right thing in posting for help here? ( If not please advise)

Short history - Debts dealt with by CAB back in 1999/2000

Ignored letters that began arriving in 2005 until threatened with a truck load of bully tactics by 1st credit in 2005 (stupid gullible me:-x) started paying to stop the harrassment £5 month - found CAG last month and became a little more informed of my rights, so i requested CCA - Notice of Assignment etc so they would prove they had a right to collect - result 1st credit have given none of these.

So my account with 1st credit has been in dispute since 30/09/09 and i stopped paying, as they do not have the CCA. I then received 2 letters from them last week. Please find copies below.

 

Pictures by BlueBooBucket - Photobucket

 

My queries are many i'm afraid -

Is this default notice valid? (I have not had any prior to this one and this was sent after disputed)

My experian file shows no defaults or entries from 1st or OC?

I quoted the DPA and requested they remove my details from thier files but They claim that they can keep my file on thier records as i have made payments and acknowledged the debt.Is this true as they threatened me into paying and have no CCA ( or written confirmation to process my data).

I was thinking of sending an SAR request to the OC to see if a prior default notice and notice of assignment turns up ( but the agreement was from around 1998 so all files may not be available especially as they do not even have the CCA)

Or, as 1st credit have already made reference to the default notice, am i right in thinking that i can just request a copy of it from them? ( i am a little dubious of doing this as i have read that they can create them to fit thier needs?)

 

Ever since i have found this fantastic site i have been so angry with myself for not requesting things at the time that seem so obvious to me now for example proof for collecting the debt especially as i had previously dealt with all mine via CAB. I could kick my self.Honestly

 

Thank you in advance for any help/advice

 

Blue Boo

[silverfox1961]

Hi

Check out the bits in red

 

Hi,

I do have a thread on the DCA forum (1st credit response to CCA is default notice) but i think my problem has now ventured into the legal side of things.So i hope i am doing the right thing in posting for help here? ( If not please advise)

Short history - Debts dealt with by CAB back in 1999/2000

Ignored letters that began arriving in 2005 until threatened with a truck load of bully tactics by 1st credit in 2005 (stupid gullible me:-x) started paying to stop the harrassment £5 month - found CAG last month and became a little more informed of my rights, so i requested CCA - Notice of Assignment etc so they would prove they had a right to collect - result 1st credit have given none of these.

So my account with 1st credit has been in dispute since 30/09/09 and i stopped paying, as they do not have the CCA. I then received 2 letters from them last week. Please find copies below.

 

Pictures by BlueBooBucket - Photobucket

 

My queries are many i'm afraid -

Is this default notice valid? (I have not had any prior to this one and this was sent after disputed)

 

That is a notice of default not a default notice. a subtle difference

 

My experian file shows no defaults or entries from 1st or OC?

I quoted the DPA and requested they remove my details from thier files but They claim that they can keep my file on thier records as i have made payments and acknowledged the debt.Is this true as they threatened me into paying and have no CCA ( or written confirmation to process my data).

 

Unfortunately, the Information Commissioner has agreed with them that they can continue to report to the CRA's while no agreement exists

 

I was thinking of sending an SAR request to the OC to see if a prior default notice and notice of assignment turns up ( but the agreement was from around 1998 so all files may not be available especially as they do not even have the CCA)

 

I am of the impression that Ist credit are collecting on behalf of Citi. If not, you should have been defaulted, the account terminated and a notice of assignment sent. If you have none of these you could send Citi a SAR but they won't send you anything of value. I'm talking from experience here.

 

Or, as 1st credit have already made reference to the default notice, am i right in thinking that i can just request a copy of it from them? ( i am a little dubious of doing this as i have read that they can create them to fit thier needs?)

 

They shouldn't have it but you could try

 

Ever since i have found this fantastic site i have been so angry with myself for not requesting things at the time that seem so obvious to me now for example proof for collecting the debt especially as i had previously dealt with all mine via CAB. I could kick my self.Honestly

 

Don't worry, we all have red arses at one time or another

 

Thank you in advance for any help/advice

 

Blue Boo

 

 

hope that helps

 

fox

[supasnooper]

The Default Notice sent by 1st Credit is one that creditors are required to send out when two or more payments are missed, and as such, is not a "true" Default Notice that may be sent under s87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I would get the SAR off to the OC as soon as possible, making sure you request all the relevant documentation.

[Blue Boo]

Thankyou silverfox

I have not received any of the (been defaulted, the account terminated and a notice of assignment sent.) I have all previous documents, letters etc right back to March 2000 when the account with associates went overdue.There was a gap between 2000 and 2003 (i believe when they changed to citi) but then had several letters from differing collectors etc from 2003 onwards, but none were a default notice.

I too think that they will not be able to produce the documents due to the age etc. which is why i hesitated on sending it.so If i request the SAR now do you know what difference it will make if any?

 

I have sat in front of this PC for so long trying to sort things out, I'm pretty certain all of my cheeks are very bright red!!

 

Thanks again

Boo

[silverfox1961]

 

I have sat in front of this PC for so long trying to sort things out, I'm pretty certain all of my cheeks are very bright red!!

Boo

:D:D

 

Your account is as old as mine so the chances of Citi having anything reliable are very slim.

All they sent me was copies of statements, copies of recent letters I sent them and the most recent screenshots. Nothing from when the account was set up in 2000 to 2009. No default notice or termination letter and they have stated that they don't send out Notices of Assignment. I have a complaint with the Information Commissioner at the moment

[Blue Boo]

Hi Supersnooper,

I think 1st credit have jumped the gun a bit there then as the 2nd missed payment would not fall due until the end of October 2009. Do you know if the SAR request in the library is up to date, requesting all of the required documents?

Last but not least i dont suppose any one knows the postal address for Citifinancial ? ( i will try and google it in a bit)

 

Thank you both so much for your help:D

Boo

[Blue Boo]

:D:D

 

Your account is as old as mine so the chances of Citi having anything reliable are very slim.

All they sent me was copies of statements, copies of recent letters I sent them and the most recent screenshots. Nothing from when the account was set up in 2000 to 2009. No default notice or termination letter and they have stated that they don't send out Notices of Assignment. I have a complaint with the Information Commissioner at the moment

 

I bet you were wiser than i was though and didn't make payments to them also! I can't beleive now i have been paying them for about 4 years with no proof and they still sent letters every month and called for higher payments too... OOOHHHH i am so fed up with myself!

I have also made a complaint to Trading Standards,consumer direct, OFT and FOS but have not had much response yet.

Good luck with your complaint i will try and find your thread and sub if you dont mind i may learn a few things along the way.

Cheers Boo

[silverfox1961]

CitiFinancial Plc

Po Box 49920

London

SE5 7ZF

 

For some reason they don't like signing for recorded delivery letters (or they get so many it would take hours to sign for them all)

I have sent 3 letters to that address and although they all got there, they still show as not signed for.

 

You could always send the SAR to their head office.

 

 

 

 

Citigroup Centre

Canada Square

Canary Wharf

London

E14 5LB

 

Link to my Citi thread,

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/citicards/202950-fox-citi-sar.html#post2209520

Edited October 20, 2009 by silverfox1961
added link

[supasnooper]

As silverfox1961 has advised, sending correspondence to the creditors Registered Office is a good practice and one I would recommend to anyone.

 

Many creditors have several offices located throughout the UK which makes things very tricky........just do an internet search for LTSB addresses !!

[silverfox1961]

As silverfox1961 has advised, sending correspondence to the creditors Registered Office is a good practice and one I would recommend to anyone.

 

Many creditors have several offices located throughout the UK which makes things very tricky........just do an internet search for LTSB addresses !!

 

 

How true, I did a search for someone who asked for a LTSB address and I failed comprehensively

 

With Citi, I just clicked on the privacy tab and it brought up all the data protection addresses

[Blue Boo]

I wont say that great minds think alike because considering my mush of grey matter it would be an insult to silverfox, but i did google them and picked up the same address from the requirements imposed on them in June from the OFT site.

They also go by a few differing names eg Citibank,citifinancial europeplc etcetc.

Thanks for your link its interesting reading,i hope all goes well for you.I am now trying to catch up with the links that were linked to your link.mmmmm? If you see what i mean.

[silverfox1961]

Thanks for your link its interesting reading,i hope all goes well for you.I am now trying to catch up with the links that were linked to your link.mmmmm? If you see what i mean.

 

 

I know exactly what you mean. Sometimes it's like going around in ever decreasing circles and then disappear up my own backside. While it's good to get links to others in the same boat, it can get VERY confusing

[diddydicky]

faxing letters to them before posting (ideally in the evening when there is not much other traffic on their machine) is a good bet as your journal will confirm Ok transmissions time date number of pages sent.

 

but always add a line to the bottom of the letter which says

 

please note that i do not have fax receive facilities (then keep your auto fax turned off)

[Blue Boo]

Hello all,

 

I really hope someone can help with this? My problem is now that I was putting together my SAR request and have just been going through all my paperwork to find the account number for the OC (as there was quite alot of paperwork from 99/00 when the CAB started dealing with my accounts). The thing is that the account number quoted on all of 1st credit's letters do not match any of my account numbers with the Associates now (Citifinancial). I had 2 associates accounts 1 loan and 1 card and the number matches niether of them.

Now i am really worried that -

1 i have been paying an account that may not even be mine.

2 If i request a SAR now what account number would i use?

3 If i use the acc no dca is chasing then requesting an SAR would aknowledge the debt wouldn't it? (even if this is not my account)?

 

I am so confused now and cant beleive how down right stupid i was!

Please help!

[silverfox1961]

Heylo

 

With the SAR to Citi, you will use the original account numbers. When the debt was sold to 1st Crud, they give you your own, new account number.

 

It would be worth going back over 1st cruds letters to see if any account numbers match. When they first contacted you, they should have shown on the letter your original account number and 1st cruds account number

 

Just because you are requesting your details from citi niether confirms nor denies any debt exists. You are just after the details Citi hold on you in accordance with the Data Protection Act, not the CCA1974

[Blue Boo]

Thanks Silverfox, I have gone back over all the letters even before 1st credit. over mar/apr 2003 i rec'd 5 letters from different DCA's all quoting the client ref (eg 8859) but my account ref's (eg 8856 and 4508) are totally different.the 5th letter introduced 1st as the client and citi as the debt but went on to say that the debt had been formally assigned to thier client by Citi.

I have also found out my papers from CAB in 2000 where they listed all DCA's,addresses, acc no's totals etc of every debt i had. This account number is nowhere to be seen not even a resemblence or transposed figures etc.

I am also now wondering if this is why there is no CCA etc?

I will send off this SAR with the acc no i've been paying on and see what they come up with. I am such a dip for paying this without checkin i can't believe i've been so stupid.

Thanks again hope all's going well for you.

Boo

[diddydicky]

if the debt dates back to 1999 and you only started making payments in 2005 you may have been paying on a statute barred debt!! was there a 6 year gap between your last acknowledgement (in writing) or payment to the account between 1998 and 2005 if not - stop paying you have no debt to pay

[Blue Boo]

Hi Diddydicky,

To be totally honest i really dont know now,On my old Associate accounts my last payments were made in 2000 which would fall within the 6yrs and is why i paid from 2005 but now i find that the account numbers on these accounts are not the one 1st credit/citifinancial are chasing. I have no OC paperwork containing the account reference number, all i have is several DCA letters. This is really weird as i had 11 debts back in 1999/2000 and i still have at least the last few statements of every single one of them. I have even kept the ones that have been paid in full, statute barred,written off etc. This is the only account where there is no proof at all?

[diddydicky]

Hi Diddydicky,

To be totally honest i really dont know now,On my old Associate accounts my last payments were made in 2000 which would fall within the 6yrs and is why i paid from 2005 but now i find that the account numbers on these accounts are not the one 1st credit/citifinancial are chasing. I have no OC paperwork containing the account reference number, all i have is several DCA letters. This is really weird as i had 11 debts back in 1999/2000 and i still have at least the last few statements of every single one of them. I have even kept the ones that have been paid in full, statute barred,written off etc. This is the only account where there is no proof at all?

 

why not call their bluff then and tell them that the debt is statute barred and the payments made in 2005 after being threatened were after 6 years and were a mistake which does not re set the clock

 

(perhaps THEY haven't got the old records either!!)

[Blue Boo]

That is well worth thinking about, as they have already stated that the agreement is not available from the OC. I was going to see what i get back from the SAR then i will go this route, after all even if they can provide all of or only the last 6 yrs statement, this will show my payments from 2005 and then nothing at all before that. do you know of any other way i could prove this if they argue the point?

[diddydicky]

That is well worth thinking about, as they have already stated that the agreement is not available from the OC. I was going to see what i get back from the SAR then i will go this route, after all even if they can provide all of or only the last 6 yrs statement, this will show my payments from 2005 and then nothing at all before that. do you know of any other way i could prove this if they argue the point?

 

its for them to prove - not for you to disprove!! let us know what pops up in the SAR

[Blue Boo]

Just a quick update i adapted a SAR sent 22/10/09 and this was signed for as received on 30/10/09 so I'm now just counting down the 40 days to see what they come up with?