Complaint about Halifax new charges regime, template letters here.

[bigyeti]

I've had some success. I pestered them for a true signed copy of the agreement that shows that I agreed to the charges. The agreement that doesn't exist, yet they still cashed my cheque for. Eventually I got a letter back saying that they refunded the charges (well most of them, their maths is a good £65 out in their favour), all other charges have been frozen and I just need to contact them to arrange a repayment plan. This works out cheaper than my original offer. Huzzah!

 

However, I have another plan. Because they never supplied me with any agreement, then surely I have not been liable for any interest payments on the balance over the last 8 years. So, I'm wondering if it's worth trying to offset them against the balance which would reduce it by almost a grand.

 

Worth a try?

[car2403]

What you're mentioning there is restitution - it's worth reading up on it, there's some threads on CAG about it.

 

IMHO, it's very dangerous and shouldn't be attempted. Others may well disagree. For me, escaping any liability under the non-existant agreement should be enough benefit, IMHO.

 

One question, though - why are you paying for an unenforceable debt?

[bigyeti]

I agree. As I was adding up the interest I thought 'Sod it', I don't owe them sod all.

So I drafted up such a letter and it is now in the hands of the Royal Mail's finest.

[angel_1]

I've had some success. I pestered them for a true signed copy of the agreement that shows that I agreed to the charges. The agreement that doesn't exist, yet they still cashed my cheque for. Eventually I got a letter back saying that they refunded the charges (well most of them, their maths is a good £65 out in their favour), all other charges have been frozen and I just need to contact them to arrange a repayment plan. This works out cheaper than my original offer. Huzzah!

 

However, I have another plan. Because they never supplied me with any agreement, then surely I have not been liable for any interest payments on the balance over the last 8 years. So, I'm wondering if it's worth trying to offset them against the balance which would reduce it by almost a grand.

 

Worth a try?

 

Hiya bigyeti

 

are you saying that you asked for a copy of the agreement to the new charges on your bank account?

 

as of course we dont have it do we?

 

therefore i would like to try the same since they havent come back to me on my complaint which unfortunately, is from last year and ive let it slide and i need to address this now

 

cheers for your help angel x

[bigyeti]

At first I thought you called me angel. lol

 

Did you jump ship before the daily OD charges started? That's what we did so until they backed down they had piled over a grand in charges onto the account. At first I was going to just take them up on their offer, but without the agreement I don't see why I should.

 

My advice is go down the "prove I agreed to the new charges" route

[angel_1]

hello angel lol (bigyeti)

 

unfortunately, no i didnt jump from them as i couldnt get another account to cover the overdraft so i tried to pay a bit off each month and keep me within my agreed overdraft to lesson the 5.00 a day impact, so am paying the 1.00 a day still but they didnt reply to my complaint and i feel i need to tell them this and also maybe now include that they need to prove that i agreen to the new charges but they may well say that since ive been crediting the account but not using it, i may have agreed to it but i really was only trying to protect me as surely 5.00 a day would crucify us even more

 

so yes could do with another angel here will try that thanks have a fun day angel x

[bigyeti]

When I moved to another bank, we couldn't get an overdraft so we didn't bother and just left the Halifax account in arrears. Transferred all the direct debits and wages and carried on as normal but without a huge OD sucking interest out of us.

[angel_1]

When I moved to another bank, we couldn't get an overdraft so we didn't bother and just left the Halifax account in arrears. Transferred all the direct debits and wages and carried on as normal but without a huge OD sucking interest out of us.

 

 

ahhhhhhhhhh well that kind of whats happened to us, i wasnt using the account for quite a few years but was slowly clearing it with credits via online from my other bank account when i could but once the 1.00 a day hit the account of course it became i was just clearing the 30 pounds a month and my overdraft amount never really lowered, now they are threatening me if i dont start crediting again as i had stopped for a few months they will close my facility and then im not sure what they would do

 

So to clarify now what did you do - send a 1.00 postal order for a copy of the agreement? any info would be appreciated

so i guess i could do what you have done and see where that kind of takes me cheers angel x

Edited November 24, 2010 by angel_1
added bit about how do i request what you requested

[Bigdebtor]

Worth a try - and £1!

 

BD

[bigyeti]

I've just checked my credit report with Experian, and Halifax have filed 8 missed payment endorsements on there. Apart from that, my report is all green.

 

As they have defaulted on the CCA request, I have written to them telling them that they are in default. After finding all that on my credit report, I think I'll send a S10 DPA notice.

[Bigdebtor]

What's a S10 DPA notice?

[bigyeti]

To tell them to stop processing my details, remove anything on the credit record and delete the account

 

I think anyway

Edited November 25, 2010 by bigyeti

[Bigdebtor]

I'd be interested in seeing a copy of this if you have one.

 

BD

[bigyeti]

I think this is it

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?411-Legal-notice-issued-under-Section-10-of-the-Data-Protection-Act-1980

[Undercover-Elsa]

Interesting posts Big Yeti, and I'm suprised (but pleased!) that the CCA request has brought them up short, as of course the advice on here is usually that Overdrafts are only partially covered by CCA 1974.

Did you inform them that you didn't agree to the new terms after you got their original letter?

I didn't, I already had a parachute account but made a monthly payment by SO to reduce the OD.

Its infuriating that thats now negated by the monthly fee. Now the balance is increasing again. Battle plans being drawn...

Elsa x

[the_shadow]

Interesting posts Big Yeti, and I'm suprised (but pleased!) that the CCA request has brought them up short, as of course the advice on here is usually that Overdrafts are only partially covered by CCA 1974.

Did you inform them that you didn't agree to the new terms after you got their original letter?

I didn't, I already had a parachute account but made a monthly payment by SO to reduce the OD.

Its infuriating that thats now negated by the monthly fee. Now the balance is increasing again. Battle plans being drawn...

Elsa x

 

Yes, its a pain... I havent looked closely but is there any mileage in the need under CCA1974 to give the debtor details of interest changes and allow them to pay off the account at the original amount if they decline further activiy on the account and agree to close future borrowing?

 

After all the overdraft IS covered by some aspects of the CCA, its a case of trying to use them against the account as normal account rules are so non-existent and weak IMHO.

 

S.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Shadow,

Yeah going to research this methinks. Strategy in meantime is to make a monthly offer conditional on fees being stopped, on basis of their unilateral changes, which they'll prob refuse, then inform them Im therefore stopping the payments but will restart should they agree. Then its wait for a default / termination if all else fails, at which stage I'm also researching the possibility of applying for a time order to request removal of interest and charges and set a fair repayment plan...

[Bigdebtor]

UE

 

Go for it!

 

You might find my following aside amusing. I spent a delightful hour yesterday doing battle with HBOS over a paltry 50p "cheque" charge - levied by them for having to use a teller to transfer funds from my HBOS business account to my HBOS personal account in a small country branch (same branch where both accounts are held!) which didn't have an internet terminal for customer use.

 

I had complained via internet when this charge hit my statement and they replied asking me to phone an 0845 number. I e-mailed back and said I preferred to deal by e-mail - but they could ring ME if they really wanted to chat. Their call to me lasted nearly an hour - starting with the first young whipper-snapper saying I should "expect to be penalised" (her exact words) if I failed to use my own internet access at home or at work or that available in bigger city centre branches. I eventually spoke to a sensible manager in the call centre (now have her e-mail address for future such "HBOS trangressions") and told her there was NO WAY I was paying anything extra just because HBOS had not invested in sufficient customer IT facilities in some smaller branches. (The transfer is free if done by internet banking).

 

I got my 50p refunded with an apoplogy - but I reckon the whole thing must have cost the Bank £1170 in "costs" - given it "costs" them £39 for the two minutes taken to send out a "we've bounced your cheque or direct debit" letter (unless they've been lying about "covering our costs" - surely not?).

 

I'm semi-retired - so had the time available to indulge in this sport yesterday - but, getting back to the point of the thread, if we ALL insisted in THEM phoning US - instead of letting THEM make money out of 0845 numbers - and then getting put up the tree when the first person has run out of authority - then we would SWAMP their call centres - and they might just change tack a bit sooner and more often?

 

Good luck with these fights. I'm looking forward to seeing further developments!

 

BD

[Undercover-Elsa]

Ohhhh you will!

I don't usually publicise my own battles much as my circumstances are pretty unique..and there's plenty who would love to know who Undercover Elsa is!!!

However this is pretty generic so I'll keep you updated

One day, come the revolution I'll reveal all!

[angel_1]

Interesting posts Big Yeti, and I'm suprised (but pleased!) that the CCA request has brought them up short, as of course the advice on here is usually that Overdrafts are only partially covered by CCA 1974.

Did you inform them that you didn't agree to the new terms after you got their original letter?

I didn't, I already had a parachute account but made a monthly payment by SO to reduce the OD.

Its infuriating that thats now negated by the monthly fee. Now the balance is increasing again. Battle plans being drawn...

Elsa x

 

hiya Undercover Elsa

 

hope you remember me - im too where you are at and so having to look at this but today trying to sort out a n244 application for a set aside on a ccj with link arghhhhhhhhh

catch up laters and cheers bigyeti too

 

Angel x

[Undercover-Elsa]

How could I not remember you Angel???!!!

 

Ouch - good luck with the set aside!

 

Hugs

 

Elsa x

[angel_1]

hahahahhah:razz:

 

thank you, just really not sure what the hell im doing in wording it, am awaiting on a bit of help so will keep looking in for updates whilst trying to have a bit of lunch

 

catch up soon been a bit away from here and now trying to again deal with all these silly creditors laters angel x

[bigyeti]

I actually started to switch accounts before the letter came, and set up a SO to pay off the direct debit. Then the letter came so I wrote back and told them I don't agree. I sent 5 letters before the charges actually started, by which time we'd gone, cancelled the SO and maxxed out the OD.

Overdrafts are covered by the CCA as it's a rolling credit agreement, and works in exactly the same way as a credit card. There was a court case that determined that. Coutts vs Sebestyen, as mentioned here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?31515-CCAs-and-overdrafts

 

They sent the first request back saying there isn't an agreement for this type of account, so I sent it back saying 'yes there is' and mentioned that case.

[Undercover-Elsa]

So they would fall under a section 78 request. Hmm interesting.

[VillageBranson]

hh