T -MOBILE complaint help Arbitration

[fairynuff777]

Hi,

I will try to write this as short as possible.

I have been with T mobile at least 10 years .I gave my T mobile phone to my daughter to use ( I switch to Orange )

I kept my old phone and they gave me a deal for £12 a month .I kept this deal until xmas 2008 then it was time to renew.They told me i could have the same deal .

They then charged me £25 a month ! I should have checked my bank as basically i thought it was my daughter going over her minutes but i spotted it in about June 09. I phoned T mobile they said they never agreed to renewing the contract for the same price !!!

This is a complete lie .I would never have kept an old phone on and paid £25 a month for it .

I have phone , complained in writing etc and bassically keep getting fobbed off .I wrote to Compliant investigations at Hatfield Buissiness park - still getting fobbed off.

I cancelled my contract since then but i want my money back that they over charged me ( 6 months at £12 ).

What do i do? They dont seem to comprehend .

I spoke to them in 2008 and said i would go to Orange for a deal for my daughter .T mobile said we will keep the same deal on for £12 ( same as the previous year !)

Any help on whom higher up i can write to now.

I mean Jeez - who would pay £25 a month for 200 minutes on thier own handset - do they think im stupid ??

[maroondevo52]

Hi,

 

I'll move this thread to the appropriate Forum, where hopefully you'll get some help.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[buzby]

When your contract was renewed, they will have sent you a letter confirming the terms and outlining the costs agreed - do you still have this? Without proof, it becomes an issue of your word against theirs, and as much as I dislike doing business over the phone - it is very possible for you to fully understand what you want, tet them to misinterpreted and be on something completely different.

 

When things start to unravel, you need to back up the wagon and see what happened - if you recorded your calls with them, great, you can prove their error - if you didn't, you can ask them for them to check their recording, but it may not exist or have been deleted long after the event.

 

Next is your delay in identifying the overpayment, I can accept you thought it was just overuse, BUT your monthly bill will have spelt the costs out and confirmed the tariff - complaining more than a few months down the line weakens your case considerably, and if it came to court (for instance) you would need to admit to not taking an interest in the documents sent every month, which will then put you at a disadvantage is disproving their version of events - because if you are seen to be a slap-dash with the monthly invoices, you'll probably have been the same in arranging the deal. (Unfair, I know - but courts deal with probabilities when proof is absent).

 

In your situation, Id WRITE to their complaints team with the relevant dates and times of your calls, and the problems you experienced. It will not be sufficient to say the rate charged fr the money paid is unrealistic - that isn't the issue - and no grounds for a tariff change. You MAY be able to downgrade your tariff, as without a new phone, or a tariff concession you should not have been hit with a minimum term.

 

SO, in the absence of a sweetner, there is something not right, and they'll be put on the spot - pursue this angle, and you might just resolve the issue.

[fairynuff777]

Hi ,

the contact came to an end around xmas 08 .T mobile sent me documents saying would i like to renew at £25 a month.

I telephone and said i wished to leave as i would not pay £25 for 200 minutes and unlimited texts when i had previously paid £12.

The person whom ever it was on the T mobile line said they would let me have the same deal again for £12 a month .They never sent any thing through the post ( or i never recieved it).

I wrote complaints and stated not only were people Privy to the conversation but would they check the recorded telephone conversation.

T mobiles reply to that is there is no record of my calls !!!

This is a complete Lie .

Like i said the bills came through but never twigged on at first due to the fact i had this phone for my daughter.I thought she was overusing it.I eventually twigged on months down the line and when i did they fobbed me off !

Its not now down to the money .Its blatent lies on T mobiles part .

[buzby]

How can T-Mobile be 'lying' about the recording of your call?

 

You know the calls was recorded.... how? Their recorded announcement even says 'calls may be recorded' - MAY doesn't always translate into WILL'

 

To win, you need a credible argument - and unfortunately you don't appear to have one. YOU need to protect yourself in such dealings and to challenge them - not ALL calls are recorded anyway, those that are would be to protect the company, NOT the customer.

 

Finally, what were you doing with the monthly bills you were getting? You might 'twig' something was amiss if they hadn't told you how the bills were being calculated, so it might be more accurate to say you realised the problem existed after you read one of their bills.....?

 

Consumers SHARE the responsibility with the networks to point out errors and take care of their finances. Signing up for a DD simply encourages consumers to employ trust - and as you found out, this it not a good idea. I'd suggest you vote with your feet, give up on a contract and switch to PAYG - no DD and no bills to check. You won't pay more than you have to, and you won't be held responsible for the possibility of erroneous billing.

[fairynuff777]

Hi ,

i cancelled the contract straight away.I dont know why T mobile are lying.

This has got me so annoyed hence why i have complained but yet again they keep fobbing me off.

[buzby]

How did you cancel the contract? And when was this? ('straight away' isn't specific). Do also remember, YOU cannot cancel a contract, it is an agreement between both parties, sp for a successful termination, BOTH parties need to agree.

[fairynuff777]

I telephoned T mobile when i spotted the discrepency said i was totally disgusted etc and wished to cancel the contract.I said when will i be able to do this without incurring any charges .They basicaly told me i had to give one months notice , which i did and the contract was cancelled The beginning of september 09 .

Since then i have wrote complaints in and been fobbed off.

[locutus]

T-Mobile Code of Practice That has all their complaints procedure in it.

 

Complaint handling and alternative dispute resolution procedures We hope that you will never have reason to complain about any aspect of our services. However, if there is something you are not happy with you should contact Customer Services and we will seek to resolve any complaint or query you may have. Customer Services can be contacted on telephone number 150 if calling from your T-Mobile phone, or on 0845 412 5000 from a land line. We will aim to find an immediate solution where possible; however, more complex complaints may take several working days or longer to resolve. If, having contacted Customer Services, you feel that your complaint has not been addressed or resolved, you have the right to ask for your complaint to be escalated to a Manager. If your complaint then remains unresolved, you should follow the complaints procedure below. T-Mobile complaints procedure:

Step 1. Put your complaint in writing and send it to the following T-Mobile address:

The Customer Resolutions Team

T-Mobile (UK) Limited

6 Camberwell Way

Sunderland

Tyne and Wear

SR3 3XN

The letter must include:

A) Your name

B) Your address

C) Your T-Mobile account number and /or mobile telephone number

D) Details of your complaint

E) Your resolution requirements

F) A daytime contact telephone number

Step 2. T-Mobile will acknowledge receipt within 3 working days of receiving your letter.

Step 3. T-Mobile will provide a full written response to your complaint within 14 days of receipt of your letter. Subject to point 4 below, the complaints procedure will be at an end.

Step 4. If the letter from T-Mobile makes an offer of settlement, or it includes a proposal to resolve your complaint, you must respond to it in writing within 14 days of its issue, again addressed to The Customer

Resolutions Team.

Step 5. If you do not respond to the letter from T-Mobile within 14 days of its issue, the complaints procedure shall be at an end. If you respond by accepting the offer of settlement or proposal to resolve the complaint, T-Mobile shall within 7 days of receipt of your letter either:

Reply to your letter acknowledging your rejection, upon which the complaints procedure shall be at an end, or; Reply to your letter putting forward new proposals in respect to which the provisions of points 4 onwards above shall apply.

You may also obtain independent advice from the Citizens Advice Bureau, Consumer Advice Centre, Trading Standards Departments or other telecoms user organisations recognised by the Secretary of State. Whilst we are happy to work together with any of the above independent organisations, if you decide you need their help to resolve your complaint, we would always recommend that you contact us first as most problems can be resolved quickly this way.

If after discussion with T-Mobile you are still unhappy with any aspects of our services, we have established, in consultation with the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators, a straightforward and convenient procedure for independent, dispute resolution. This process may be used where we are unable to resolve your complaint after a period of 8 weeks from the date of your initial complaint has passed or if we write to you at any time informing you that we cannot resolve the complaint. If the amount you are claiming does not exceed £5,000, subject to consent by T-Mobile, you have the right

to put the dispute to this adjudication process.

Details of how to apply to the T-Mobile adjudication services can be obtained by writing to the legal department at:

T-Mobile (UK) Limited

Hatfield Business Park

Hatfield

Hertfordshire

AL10 9BW

Or by email to [email protected]

Alternatively, you can obtain further information directly from CISAS by writing to them at:

CISAS

c/o Dispute Resolution Services

The Chartered Institute of Arbitrators

12 Bloomsbury Square

London, WC1A 2LP

Website: Home : CIArb

Telephone: 0207 421 7432

Or by email to [email protected] or to [email protected]

[fairynuff777]

Hi,

Ive wrote to both addresses already and recieved replies basically fobbing me off .Is there a higher address to write to.

[buzby]

The short answer is no. You've not been 'fobbed off', they have rejected your claim of an error - so you have to accept that's the end of that avenue, as they do not accept your argument.

 

The next tactic is to search for errors in their calculations of the costs billed. If you can identify this, it goes to the heart of proving their inaccuracy, and the chance to throw doubt on their billing process.

[fairynuff777]

Basically there is nothing more i can do then except to accept the fact T mobile are LIARS !!

Thanks for all your help.

I hope others who consider using T Mobile will read this and consider another mobile provider !

[buzby]

Realistically, just as they can make a mistake - so can the consumer, so one persons 'liar' is anothers 'mistake'.

 

As to your last point, the REAL issue is not to do with the network, but the fact a needless contract was entered into. Avoid the contract, and avoid the problems and any unwanted blight on your credit file.

[fairynuff777]

No it was more than a " Mistake " .They agreed i could have the same contract with my own phone renewed .As i explained they deniged all knowledge of this , no phone calls , mysteriously nothing on their computers or logs.Everything seems to have dissapeared !

The bills were paid so no damage to credit file- it got nothing to do with it.

In my opinion and the people who were privy to the conversations with T MOBILE -We all say they are Liars !

[buzby]

Which is why CAG advises when there are telephone/call centre conversations regarding responsibilities that could result in a dispute - a recording device and storing the data yourself provides all the corroboration required, and stops these 'mistakes' at source.

[locutus]

So CISAS have "fobbed you off"? They are independant from T-Mobile and they are the final people in the complaints chain as Busby said. Did they give a reason for deciding T-Mobile were in the right?

[fairynuff777]

They just sent a letter quoting "As T mobile said etc etc"

As i explained to them .The handset was mine .I was paying £13 a month contract.The contract ended xmas 2008 .They sent a letter to renew but at £25 a month.I telephone before contract was due to end and said i wish to terminate when it came to an end.

I spoke to a lady from t mobile she said " Stay with us we will do it same price as before , same package same deal etc £13 a month - again" .

I said ok and stayed .

Like i said this phone was my daughters i am with Orange .I kept the same deal as basically it was easier .I didnt take much notice of bills as i use to give her them.It was onnly when i went through my bank account and checked direct debits that i noticed they were charging me £25 a month.

This is when i telephoned them.

They sad they had no record of any conversation saying i could have the same package ! no logs of any calls etc.

Now in my opinion like i expressed to them .Why would i pay £13 a month with my handset and suddenly pay £25 the next year with the same handset ( mine!).

The last letter i have quoted above is from complaint investigation .To me they are Lying and fobbing me off.My husband and daughter were sat in the room at the time i telephoned T mobile .I have no reason to say other wise .It has annoyed me so much hence why ive wrote at least 5 letters to them ( strange they only recieve and reply back the the recorded delivery ones !)

[locutus]

I don't know if this is covered by the data protection act to be honest, but if you know the time and date you phoned them, ask them to check for a "footprint" on your account at that time (If someone accesses your account the computer makes a log of who accessed and what they did... this is called a footprint) If you can get them to admit that someone did access your account at that time, and works/worked in their call center, then you will stand more chance getting them to admit you asked to be put back onto this tariff.

 

As it stands take a little "cold comfort" in the fact that if a complaint goes to CISAS T-Mobile have to pay their fee (about £50 I believe) even if they agree with T-Mobile

[christof69]

Locutus is on the right track. You can make a Subject Access Request on the correct form that T-Mobile should send you if you ring or write to them under the Data Protection Act ( ask for a " Subject Access Request Form " ). They will send you the form that you have to fill in and it will cost you £10, but you can then get a complete copy of your file, with all letters, calls logged and anything else they hold about you

 

That would be my first port of call. Check the dates, times etc and see if your call was logged and go from there. IF they never sent you an updated contract ( which does happen with lots of companies actually ), you could fairly argue that you continued on your original contract on a monthly rolling basis ( as is very common )!

 

Food for thought

[buzby]

There's no mystique about any apecial 'form'. You put your request in writing, identifying your account details and send the fee. They may like you to fill in their 'special' form, but it is a needless hoop to jump through. Your request is not conditional on completing their own form.

[Human Writes]

There's no mystique about any apecial 'form'. You put your request in writing, identifying your account details and send the fee. They may like you to fill in their 'special' form, but it is a needless hoop to jump through. Your request is not conditional on completing their own form.

 

Agreed, however, the Data Protection Act makes several requirements of data controllers one of which is that they have to be satisfied that you are the subject of the data you have requested before they disclose it to you. The ICO's Guidance on the act also allows data controllers to ask that you narrow the scope of the data you are requesting, however, if you want all information they have to provide it to you.

 

All of the Subject Access Request forms I have seen have at least 3 clear purposes, one is to ensure that you are the subject of the data you want by asking for proof of ID and confirmation of which account or accounts specifically belong to you, the other is ensure you are aware you have to pay £10.00 (not everyone is) and the third is to ask for clarification on exactly what information is required.

 

Clarification is presumably important as if the company know specifically what you want they will be able to provide this information quickly, if you ask for all data held by a telco or any large company I'd imagine it takes them longer to complete the relevant data searches and collate the information.

[fairynuff777]

Hi thanks for that .They have told me that there was a record of the phonecall but no " talk of for the same tarriff " .

[locutus]

I think a DPA request for this information may be worth the tenner, your call. As buzby said you don't need a special form, but as Human Writes and christof69 said it may prove quicker to get that form.

 

If it did come to a point where you are sure you'd win in court there is always that option, and 9 times out of 10 they'd fold before it got that far... be prepared to be that number 10 tho.

[christof69]

Actually buzby is not quite correct. Most large companies that comply with the Data Protection Act HAVE to have a form that they will send out to you on request or you can download from their website, fill in and send off to them. A simple letter and sending a cheque for a tenner generally will not suffice. You will find that this form is part and parcel of their own due diligence, company data control policy and possibly other legal constraints, regulations and guidelines imposed on them etc and they have to send the form out requesting certain information from you. ( Generally they send you the form once you send a letter of request as you haven't given them all the information you need in the initial letter. IF however you are aware of what is legally required for a SAR, then you may be able to supply all information in the initial letter, BUT they can still request that you fill in the form and send it to them! )

 

A standard type form can be seen here online at the FSA:

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/information/pdf/data_protection.pdf

 

 

 

" The data controller is also entitled to the following two further pieces of information before the forty calendar day response period commences:

• Firstly, the data controller must satisfy himself that the person making the request is, in fact, the data subject. The use of a subject access request form is advised, since the greatest breach of a data controller's security is for the data controller to satisfy a subject access request made by a person impersonating the data subject. The use of the form goes towards proving that the data controller has adequate identification and verification procedures in place.
  
• Secondly, the data controller is entitled to ask the data subject for further information to enable the data controller to locate the information which that person seeks. It should be remembered that the individual is within their rights to request copies of all information held about them. However, you may wish to try to help the data subject to try to narrow their request for information. This is discussed further below. "
  

Taken from : http://www.out-law.com/page-410

 

 

Taken from the ICO ( Information Commissioners Office website ) - http://www.ico.gov.uk/tools_and_resources/glossary.aspx#s

 

" Subject access request (Data Protection Act) Under the Data Protection Act, individuals can ask to see the information about themselves that is held on computer and in some paper records. If an individual wants to exercise this subject access right, they should write to the person or organisation that they believe is processing the data.

A subject access request must be made in writing and must be accompanied by the appropriate fee. In most cases, the maximum fee will be £10, but this can vary, particularly if the information requested is for health or educational records. If a subject access request is made to a credit reference agency for financial information (ie a credit file), then the fee is £2, and the information must be provided within seven working days. A request must include enough information to enable the person or organisation to whom the subject is writing to satisfy itself as to their identity and to find the information.

A reply must be received within 40 days as long as the necessary fee has been paid. A data controller should act promptly in requesting the fee or any further information necessary to fulfil the request. If a data controller is not processing personal information of which this individual is the data subject, the data controller must reply saying so. "

 

 

The 2 excerpts above clearly explain the reasons most companies require you to fill in their SAR form after your initial enquiry.

Edited October 23, 2009 by christof69

[locutus]

The form may be used as a proof of ID, as in they sent the letter to that persons address so they can be sure it is them, but most companies accept that quoting your own name, address and account number is sufficient proof of ID, also if they have a signature on file and you sign your request. It does say "The use of a subject access request form is advised" but providing you include enough information to prove it is you sending the subject access request, then they cannot insist on you using their form.