Disciplinary Hearing Next Week - please help!!

[hardworking_harddoneby]

Hi all,

I'm hoping somebody can help us, we've tried the CAB and ACAS but need some general sound advice...

My partner has worked as a head chef at a hotel since september 2004. He resigned 4 weeks ago, giving his contractually required 12 weeks notice. His replacement chef/s started last week and on sunday night he was told to attend a meeting the following morning (his rota'd day off).

At the meeting his boss told him he could either sign a letter to agree to cutting his notice or he would "find someone" to say he was running the kitchen poorly and would therefore be sacked. My partner left the building and sought advice from the CAB. The CAB referred him to ACAS who told him to email his boss stating he wasnt happy with the offer and that he would be attending work as usual on Wednesday (his next rota'd working day) he did and and when he arrived at work on wednesday he was presented with a a letter informing him he was suspended on full pay whilst they looked into some concerns that had come to their attention.

Later that evening, a colleague brought another letter round, this time a Disciplinary Procedure - Statement of Grounds Letter, inviting him to attend a disciplinary hearing next week. The reasons given (3) are very minor, untrue and extremely exxagerated. The boss has got the 2 new starters to write a statement agreeing to the findings and a long standing member of the team.

He has included the statements and contract including grievance procedure in with the letter.

ACAS has told him to go to the meeting (unfortunately alone as he isnt part of a union and hasn't got an employee brave enough to go with him) and appeal.

Its so obvious the boss just wants to get out of paying his notice and he also has a virtually unblemished record for his whole 5 years there, one verbal warning as part of the whole team a long time ago on issues unrelated to the new "concerns". He has also worked well and beyond his call of duty, contracted 45hours per week not entitled to over time but has always worked at least a 60hour week. There is and has never been a question of dedication to his job, he has only taken 5 days holiday this year so has at least 20 remaining, and also 2 weeks paternity leave remaining... the 5 days were in june when his boss made him take them as holiday (while i was in hospital with pre eclampsia and high blood pressure about to have our 2nd child, he had to stay home to look after our 2 year old - i would have thought this fell into compassionate leave or something??) anyway he was told by his boss that it was "inconvenient" and he would have to wait to take his paternity leave, he had to take another 2 days off as holiday to spend precious little time with us and his new baby.

I'm sorry to go on but as u can tell i'm really upset by this, he had no problems there at all until his boss was tipped off that he;d joined an employment agencys website and uploaded his cv, when his boss asked why, my partner was honest and told him a debt management company had advised him to seek a job with accommodation as private rent is our major bill and we are not entitled to social housing due to his "high" salary. His boss told him he had a house which we could live in then a few weeks later told him that his son had let his friend live there.... he has since made snide comments and one bad one about GP, he basically inferred a 92%gp was impossible therefore implying that my partner was dishonest, there was no praise or anything for this achievement and gp has been consistently good for a while.. he only resigned 4 weeks ago because we've been slowly going under for over a year and have to give up everything for a new start and our sanity, we are moving in with relatives and at a pretty bad place generally.... and his boss has a history of getting away with things like this so im worried sick.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, we just want at least what we're genuinely owed and theres no need for all this upset. Most of all my partner knows he has only ever done his best at work and is as honest and helpful as the day is long - i don;t think he's had more than a handful days off sick, and has been working with an umbilical hernia for the past 6 months xxxxxxxxx

Edited October 8, 2009 by hardworking_harddoneby

[mariefab]

What exactly does it state in his contract about notice to terminate employment?

[hardworking_harddoneby]

Thanks for replying Mariefab. It says

 

 

a) notice required terminating from either party as follows -

i) continuous service of less than 2 years, eight weeks notice

ii) continuous service of more than 2 years but less that 12 years,; one week for each completed year of continuous employment subject to a minimum of eight weeks and a maximum of 12 weeks.

iii) Twelve continuous years of service or more; twelve weeks.

 

So my partner gave his notice on 16th september and had worked nearly 4 weeks of the required 12 when his boss called the meeting. Now his boss is trying to say his 3 reasons amount to gross misconduct, causing summary dismissal,,,,,

Edited October 8, 2009 by hardworking_harddoneby

[jackiebuchanan1]

You have 3 months to go to an employment tribunal. First go to the meeting with a tape recorder. If a tape recorder is not allowed at the meeting then write a letter saying you cannot attend because you are worried about the discrimination. Go to a law centre quickly. You need help. This sounds like constructive dismissal. Best of luck. Let me know how it goes

[mariefab]

So, according to his contract terms, he was only required to give eight weeks notice.

 

Frankly I think that it would foolish of his boss to leave himself open to a possible tribunal claim by taking disciplinary action against an employee who is alredy leaving.

 

Perhaps your husband could suggest amending his notice to the contracted eight weeks notice instead. (Unless this would be inconvenient, considering your moving plans.)

[rebeccas78]

Thanks for replying Mariefab. It says

 

 

a) notice required terminating from either party as follows -

i) continuous service of less than 2 years, eight weeks notice

ii) continuous service of more than 2 years but less that 12 years,; one week for each completed year of continuous employment subject to a minimum of eight weeks and a maximum of 12 weeks.

iii) Twelve continuous years of service or more; twelve weeks.

 

So my partner gave his notice on 16th september and had worked nearly 4 weeks of the required 12 when his boss called the meeting. Now his boss is trying to say his 3 reasons amount to gross misconduct, causing summary dismissal,,,,,

 

First thing is you say your partner gave the required 12 weeks notice. However he has worked there 5 years and the contractual requirement as you posted from his terms and conditions states in point i) if more than 2 years but less than 12 years, one week for each completed year of continuous employment subject to a minimum of 8 weeks. I would therefore interpret this to mean that he only has to give 8 weeks notice??

 

Going back to re-read other areas of your post and will come back to you on some other points shortly!

[rebeccas78]

"Later that evening, a colleague brought another letter round, this time a Disciplinary Procedure - Statement of Grounds Letter, inviting him to attend a disciplinary hearing next week. The reasons given (3) are very minor, untrue and extremely exxagerated. The boss has got the 2 new starters to write a statement agreeing to the findings and a long standing member of the team".

 

• When is the disciplinary hearing and can you post the exact wording of the letter on here?
  
• You say colleagues have given statements, are they statements as witnesses to the 3 alledged issues?
  

[jackiebuchanan1]

Yes rebeccas good point and what exactly are the issues?

[hardworking_harddoneby]

Hi all, thanks for all the prompt and positive replys.

I've asked my partner about the notice thing and i had typed that directly from the copy he was given attached to his statement of grounds letter and he says the copy he originally had stated different... he's going to find it and double check .....

 

The three areas of "concern" are -

 

1.

[hardworking_harddoneby]

Failure to inform ma

[hardworking_harddoneby]

sorry dont know what happened there -

 

The three areas of "concern" are -

 

1. Failure to inform management that the blast chiller had not been working correctly. This is true but it was working and passed a PAT test a couple of weeks ago, they have alleged he used a wire to operate it and encouraged other staff members to do the same and are citing dangerous h&s issues......

 

2. Not ensured correct food labelling of food items stored in kitchen. He's saying a complaint was received from a member of the team and a statement supports it and lists the items not labelled. Boss is saying "negligent approach to his duties and knock on effect it could have on hotels reputation , the health and safety of its patrons and any civil or criminal penalties that could flow from the same. " The food had a date label on it but not specific to food.

 

3. "Not ensuring kitchen equipment and prep areas are clean. This was brought to the hotels attention when a complaint was received from another member of your team" (again a statement from the 2 new starters support this- i can type these if u like but basically saying about the labelling and banging on about its dangers of out of date food being cooked.... and the kitchen being "extremely dirty, floors, walls, tables, doors, fridge doors and seals, under benches, behind equipment and shelves. it has taken nearly 4 days to get it to an acceptable standard. The is no evidence of cleaning rotas or fridge temperatures being checked". Where do I start explaining this b/s.... the boss is always in and out of the kitchen, and eats at the premises (which by the way has always had an EXCELLENT reputation, especially for food and my partner has been Head chef from day 1.) if it was as dirty as they say why wasnt it brought up before. Since January my partner has worked with only 2 more chefs doing covers of 300+ (!!!!??!?!!!!) and no complaints from guests or boss ever received regarding his side, and to boot they havent had a regular Kitchen Porter for over a month.

 

x

[hardworking_harddoneby]

"Later that evening, a colleague brought another letter round, this time a Disciplinary Procedure - Statement of Grounds Letter, inviting him to attend a disciplinary hearing next week. The reasons given (3) are very minor, untrue and extremely exxagerated. The boss has got the 2 new starters to write a statement agreeing to the findings and a long standing member of the team".

 

• When is the disciplinary hearing and can you post the exact wording of the letter on here?
  
• You say colleagues have given statements, are they statements as witnesses to the 3 alledged issues?
  

 

 

It is on Monday next week i'll set about typing the letter now ....

 

Yes they are. One is a lick arse letter finding issues and 2 others are actual statements. The letter and statements aren't signed on our copies,

[hardworking_harddoneby]

You have 3 months to go to an employment tribunal. First go to the meeting with a tape recorder. If a tape recorder is not allowed at the meeting then write a letter saying you cannot attend because you are worried about the discrimination. Go to a law centre quickly. You need help. This sounds like constructive dismissal. Best of luck. Let me know how it goes

 

 

I'll pass the advice about tape recorder onto him-thanks. He is "within" his rights to do that isnt he and say he dpesnt want to attend if not on grounds of discrimination? With regard to the law centre, we are already broke as a joke, and boss knows this too, makes you wonder how people sleep at night, we have 2 kids to think about as well

Anyway thanks for the advice i thought exactly the same about constructive dismissal in the 1st place, i'll kepp u updated xxxxx

[rebeccas78]

sorry dont know what happened there -

 

The three areas of "concern" are -

 

1. Failure to inform management that the blast chiller had not been working correctly. This is true but it was working and passed a PAT test a couple of weeks ago, they have alleged he used a wire to operate it and encouraged other staff members to do the same and are citing dangerous h&s issues......

 

2. Not ensured correct food labelling of food items stored in kitchen. He's saying a complaint was received from a member of the team and a statement supports it and lists the items not labelled. Boss is saying "negligent approach to his duties and knock on effect it could have on hotels reputation , the health and safety of its patrons and any civil or criminal penalties that could flow from the same. " The food had a date label on it but not specific to food.

 

3. "Not ensuring kitchen equipment and prep areas are clean. This was brought to the hotels attention when a complaint was received from another member of your team" (again a statement from the 2 new starters support this- i can type these if u like but basically saying about the labelling and banging on about its dangers of out of date food being cooked.... and the kitchen being "extremely dirty, floors, walls, tables, doors, fridge doors and seals, under benches, behind equipment and shelves. it has taken nearly 4 days to get it to an acceptable standard. The is no evidence of cleaning rotas or fridge temperatures being checked". Where do I start explaining this b/s.... the boss is always in and out of the kitchen, and eats at the premises (which by the way has always had an EXCELLENT reputation, especially for food and my partner has been Head chef from day 1.) if it was as dirty as they say why wasnt it brought up before. Since January my partner has worked with only 2 more chefs doing covers of 300+ (!!!!??!?!!!!) and no complaints from guests or boss ever received regarding his side, and to boot they havent had a regular Kitchen Porter for over a month.

 

x

 

Point 1.

• Who's responsibility is it to ensure the balst chiller is working correctly? Assuming it is every employees responsibility to highlight any problems with machinery / tools etc... why is he being singled out and being disciplined for not doing it?
  
• Assuming as you intimate that he did not incite other employees to use a wire to operate it, I would ask if they can please provide date(s) and time(s) of when he allegedly incited others to do this?
  
• A bit 'out there' but....is there CCTV in the area that this was supposed to have occured and if so, assuming they can pin-point the date(s) and time(s) of said actions, can they provide CCTV evidence?
  

Point 2

• Again who's responsibility is it to ensure that the food is labelled - was it just him or are others also responsible? If they are why is he being singled out?
  
• The member of the team made a complaint ...did he bring his concerns to your partner at the time?
  

Point 3

• You refer here to a kitchen porter and not having one employed for over a month...with this in mind, is it in your partners job description / contractual responsibilities to clean the kitchen equipment and prep areas or is that the role of a kitchen porter that the boss could not be bothered to replace when he left over a month ago?
  
• No evidence of cleaning rotas or fridge temperatures being checked - is this his responsibiity and if so did he do it and how are the checks normally recorded?
  

Does your partners hotel have a HR Manager or Managing director?

[rebeccas78]

I'll pass the advice about tape recorder onto him-thanks. He is "within" his rights to do that isnt he and say he dpesnt want to attend if not on grounds of discrimination? With regard to the law centre, we are already broke as a joke, and boss knows this too, makes you wonder how people sleep at night, we have 2 kids to think about as well

Anyway thanks for the advice i thought exactly the same about constructive dismissal in the 1st place, i'll kepp u updated xxxxx

 

 

Me again..! You can get free employment advice from ACAS but must have all your facts clear. Their web-site is great and their phone number is also on there so call them tommorow.

 

Drop me some answers to my previous post and I'll see if I can also give you more guidance.

I'm no expert(!) but am a HR Manager who is appalled that there are employers out there who mis-treat their employees and so I try to give some basic guidance to people on here to fight back!

[hardworking_harddoneby]

Me again..! You can get free employment advice from ACAS but must have all your facts clear. Their web-site is great and their phone number is also on there so call them tommorow.

 

Drop me some answers to my previous post and I'll see if I can also give you more guidance.

I'm no expert(!) but am a HR Manager who is appalled that there are employers out there who mis-treat their employees and so I try to give some basic guidance to people on here to fight back!

 

Ah and thank goodness for the great people like you on this site, it's good to know there are good people out there....

 

I'm going to sit him in front of comp in half hour or so and will update you asap! Thanks so much again, xxx

[hardworking_harddoneby]

And can I just say that if he had offered him a abit more than nothing to sign off his notice he would have.... he doesnt want to pay him the last of what hes owed basically because he got the 2 chefs in before my partners left and probably doesnt want to pay 2 lots of salaries, so is just scrabbling in the dirt for reasons but i think they are petty, not enough to justify dismissal without warning first.......

[hardworking_harddoneby]

Point 1.

• Who's responsibility is it to ensure the balst chiller is working correctly? Assuming it is every employees responsibility to highlight any problems with machinery / tools etc... why is he being singled out and being disciplined for not doing it?
  
• Assuming as you intimate that he did not incite other employees to use a wire to operate it, I would ask if they can please provide date(s) and time(s) of when he allegedly incited others to do this?
  
• A bit 'out there' but....is there CCTV in the area that this was supposed to have occured and if so, assuming they can pin-point the date(s) and time(s) of said actions, can they provide CCTV evidence?
  

Point 2

• Again who's responsibility is it to ensure that the food is labelled - was it just him or are others also responsible? If they are why is he being singled out?
  
• The member of the team made a complaint ...did he bring his concerns to your partner at the time?
  

Point 3

• You refer here to a kitchen porter and not having one employed for over a month...with this in mind, is it in your partners job description / contractual responsibilities to clean the kitchen equipment and prep areas or is that the role of a kitchen porter that the boss could not be bothered to replace when he left over a month ago?
  
• No evidence of cleaning rotas or fridge temperatures being checked - is this his responsibiity and if so did he do it and how are the checks normally recorded?
  

Does your partners hotel have a HR Manager or Managing director?

 

Hiya just thought id let you know he's speaking to a solicitor thisafternoon, xxxx let you know what we're doing asap xxxx

[hardworking_harddoneby]

Hi all,

Couldn't log in for a few days... anyway, he got sacked yesterday, a letter telling him so really and saying a P45 to follow....

 

A few questions if anyone can help -

 

Should he appeal his dismissal? It was for all the points i listed above.

Partner attended meeting alone and denied it but he was saying things like "so basically youre saying the people who signed these statements are lying?" and my partner was replying well they must be...

 

Will he still get paid for the time he was on suspension(about 2 weeks)

 

He still has holiday entitlement left and paternity leave, are these gone now he;s been sacked?

 

How long should it take for his p45, we cant claim any benefits until he has it

 

x

[jackiebuchanan1]

His letter of dismissal should give explicit reasons because someone cannot just be sacked these days they need written warnings first. Law centres are free, some solicitors give free 30 minute advice sessions and the tribunal is free too. Also try ACAS. Don't give up here because you can only get sacked without warning for gross misconduct none of which these 3 things are

[hardworking_harddoneby]

I will type his dismissal letter up... give me 30 minutes or so - gotta bath my bubs first too x

[hardworking_harddoneby]

His letter of dismissal should give explicit reasons because someone cannot just be sacked these days they need written warnings first. Law centres are free, some solicitors give free 30 minute advice sessions and the tribunal is free too. Also try ACAS. Don't give up here because you can only get sacked without warning for gross misconduct none of which these 3 things are

 

 

In the meeting I checked you had received and read the statement of grounds that had been sent to you and explained that the purpose of the meeting was to give you an opportunity to respond to the allegations made against you, I will refer to each of the three grounds in turn -

 

1. Blast Chiller

During the course of our meeting you did admit that you have allowed other staff members to start the blast chiller by inserting a metal implement into it, You stated that this was of their own free will; however, I am afraid that I am of the opinion that this is irrelevant, in your position you are expected to manage staff and this should include preventing them from committing any such breach of health and safety. To fail to do so could expose (name of hotel) to extensive liability in respect of any injuries (or indeed, given the seriousness of this case, fatalities) suffered. In the circumatances this is an extremely serious breach of health and safety which you have effectively condoned by allowing the practice to continue.

Further, you admit that you had not reported the matter to any of the senior management team. I note that you claim you were trying to sort this yourself, but in the case of such a serious matter this should have been reported. On the one hand, the chiller did not work and therefore posed a health risk from the perspective of improper food storage, on the other hand, if the chiller was working, it was only doing so because the health and safety of staff members was seriously jeopardised in starting it up.

 

2. Labelling

 

Following our meeting I am of the opinion that you have not carried out your role properly in relation to the labelling of food items in the fridge. You admit that every item that is placed in the fridge should be labelled. You contend that it is impossible to prove who failed to label what. I am afraid that this is irrelevant. In your role as Head Chef, you have a duty to manage the kitchn and to ensure that all kitchen staff are properly labelling food items. Regardless of who was failing to label the food, I am afraid that the responisibility ultimately rests with you, If food was not being labelled you should have taken measures to ensure that staff began doing this,

 

3. Cleaning

 

I was abit troubled by your comments during our meeting in relation tot he cleaning of the kitchen. Given that 2 staff members have complained, this is an iss ue that we are taking very seriously. What concerns me is that on the one hand you claim that the cleaning was of an acceptable level and in adherance to a cleaning schedule, whereas later in the meeting you began to make excuses, claiming that we were busy and short staffed. This to me indicates that you are aware the standards of cleaning were not adequate. In any event, I was of the opinion that the levels of cleanliness in the kitchen were not acceptable and, in relation to your claims that we were understaffed, the levels of cleanliness have since been increased to an acceptable level using the same staff as were at your disposal.

 

Having had time to consider what we discussed in the meeting, I can confirm that I am of the opinion that you have committed gross misconduct in your role. Given the severity of the breaches of health and safety, both in respect of our employees and our customers, especially as regards the blast chiller and cleaning standards, I belive that these would constitute instances of gross misconduct in themselves. I am afraid that when taken as a whole, the issues above demonstrate a complete failure by you to adequately and appropriately perform your role, and i am afraid i have no choice but to find that this is gross misconduct, As a result I can confirm that your employment will terminate with immediate effect. You have the right to appeal my decision under our Appeal Procedure and if you choose to do so, should submit this appeal to (his personal name) within 5 working days,

 

Your p45 and final pay details will be forwarded to you under separate cover, Please ensure you hand over any keys or other company property in your possession to me.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

Proprietor

[jackiebuchanan1]

Ok how long do you have to appeal now?

[hardworking_harddoneby]

Hiya thanks for responding., Letter is dated 14th October 2009.

[jackiebuchanan1]

OK gotta go now but I will try to help tomorrow Are you in during the day?