Rossendales for C/T

[1_dadof_2]

After reading through some posts on bailiff threads, i hope somebody could help with my situation, i had bailiff turn up today (6/10/09) and he gave me a bailiff removal form for C/T, i noticed him sat in his van outside before he came to door, he handed me an envelope, said he was bailiff from Rossendales and then left. The form say's payment due in full - 24hours, the form has £514.81 due but just before that there is a clear figure of £564.81 scribbled out, i went onto Rossendales website and there is a payment function there where it tells you what is owed the figures are completely different, they say - to pay = £326.31, Fees = £78.50, Bal = £404.81.

 

I owed part of last years C/T and paid that eventually after many phone calls from rossendales and to the council as i would like to deal with them direct.

 

What i dont get is the actual bill for 09/10 C/T is £482.18, a difference of £32, and according to thier web page there is a difference of £78.

 

The other wierd thing is the amount on their web page is strangely similar to 08/09 C/T which was 306.31, but as far as i am concerned that has been payed.

 

Could anyone give me any advise, i have a feeling he will turn up wed 07/10 (today, as already passed midnight), as the notice gave 24hrs and then he will seize goods.

 

Also just to add that i do have a car on the driveway but it's in my dad's name and i have the log book to prove that.

Edited October 7, 2009 by 1_dadof_2
Add info

[spitfire650]

Have you let the bailiff into your house or signed a walking possession agreement?

[1_dadof_2]

No he didn't come in, he didn't even seem interested in getting in, nothing signed either, he just handed me the bailiff removal form (after being sat outside in his large mpv), the envelope was still wet so i am guessing he wrote it before he came to the door.

[spitfire650]

You're sorted then - should he return today make it very clear that you are not letting him in and keep the doors locked and the windows closed.

 

Notwithstanding any crap he may tell you, he has no right of entry unless allowed to enter "peaceably". Should that courtesy have been extended previously he can then force an entry to get back in later.

 

Someone posted an excellent letter to hand a bailiff through a letterbox stating this point a couple of weeks ago if you search through other posts you will find it.

 

He will know the vehicle is not registered in your name as they check with DVLA.

 

Good luck!

[1_dadof_2]

Cheers spit, one thing concerns me, (i may just be being paranoid but) because of differing amounts that they are asking for i have a feeling they are trying to collect on council tax already paid to them for 08/09 C/T, i feel like they are taking the p***, because i paid them last years C/T with no fight as i wasn't really aware of what they could do, and paid it in varying ways, like on thier web and phone via CC and some paid to the bloke on the door, so i am not even sure what and how much i am paying them.

 

For e.g the last thing i paid was to a guy on the doorstep and he wrote out a "Rossendales Official Reciept" with ref no which doesn't correspond with anything, how much paid (which was £25.86) and in the balance outstanding line he wrote "nil" (as in we owe nothing).

 

I have seen posts about SAR, but i would not know what to put, would this be the best course of action, my wife will be at home most of the day with our 2 yr old, and i am more fearful for her than anything.

Edited October 7, 2009 by 1_dadof_2
add info

[spitfire650]

I'd write to Rossendales asking for a breakdown of the figures they are claiming pointing out the discrepancy between the letter and their web site and check this against the latest statement from the council, or call and ask them for the outstanding balance.

 

If its a difference of between £404.81 and £514.81 that's exactly £110 which you can bet your life is some kind of extra fee the bailiff thought he would apply to line his own pocket, as they tend to think in round numbers as these obviously require less fingers to add up the total...

 

Until they actually levy they are restricted to the first and second letter charge regardless of how many times they call and bother you.

 

You need to brief your wife on today's plan of action.

[1_dadof_2]

Would e-mailing them suffice, i don't have access to a printer and my hand writing is crap to say the least, as requesting a breakdown i understand i don't have to pay for.

 

I noticed that the difference you worked out was £110, that worries me as when reading through other posts that is a fee for van attendance (is that correct) but i have had no levy (WP) of my knowledge (may have done on the car but nothing given to us), would they have done this (added van fee, as he turned up in a large mpv that looked like a van).

[spitfire650]

Sure - if you have an email address.

 

Most probably is a van fee, but the point is they are not entitled to charge this so it doesn't really matter does it.

[1_dadof_2]

Cheers spit, i was looking for clarification because he turned up in a van and the removal form says "I have attended today with the intention of removing your goods and chattels as are necessary to discharge the above debt and any additional enforcement costs incurred" it also says "I will re-attend your address at my convenience and may remove goods even in your absence"

[ploddertom]

Spitfire is correct in his assumptions and advice. Also get on to the Council and ask for the amount on the Liability Order and also on the current amount outstanding - they have to give you these. As Spitfire has said it is important you get a breakdown of fees and charges, including a screenshot, of your account to date with Rottendales.

 

Even though the car is not yours I would imagine he will still levy/clamp it hoping to use it as a bargaining tool and extra charges.

 

You can still pay the Council direct by using their online service which allows you to make payments. Do not under any circumstances let him into your house.

 

PT

[k1mmie]

You're sorted then - should he return today make it very clear that you are not letting him in and keep the doors locked and the windows closed.

 

Notwithstanding any crap he may tell you, he has no right of entry unless allowed to enter "peaceably". Should that courtesy have been extended previously he can then force an entry to get back in later.

 

Someone posted an excellent letter to hand a bailiff through a letterbox stating this point a couple of weeks ago if you search through other posts you will find it.

 

He will know the vehicle is not registered in your name as they check with DVLA.

 

 

Don't take this last sentence as a given fact! In most cases they actually don't check with DVLA and will randomly take nearby cars and then claim the onus is on you to prove it is not your vehicle and not them to prove it is!!!! Watch out for this.

[1_dadof_2]

Don't take this last sentence as a given fact! In most cases they actually don't check with DVLA and will randomly take nearby cars and then claim the onus is on you to prove it is not your vehicle and not them to prove it is!!!! Watch out for this.

 

Thanks k1mmie, i can prove it's not mine as the car docs with my fathers name on it as the owner is in the glove box, i also use this car for work and i have business insurance as well as personal, which is stated on the insurance cert.

 

I am gunna draft a letter for breakdown of charges which include the C/T as well as what fees have been added, and also ask why there is a discrepancy in pounds between their website and there liability order.

 

BTW does anyone have the e-mail addy for Rossendales as i can't find it anywhere. thanks

Edited October 7, 2009 by 1_dadof_2

[spitfire650]

K1mmie is quite right. There are some bailiffs who will try and remove third party property illegally.

 

You might want to retain the documents as proof that this belongs to your father rather than leave them in the vehicle.

[1_dadof_2]

Ok will take them out of the car, have been trying to get through to the council to ask them for the actual owed amount but no luck just says operators are busy, will have to go by the original amount of C/T owed which is £482.18, and write to Rossendales asking for a full breakdown of C/T and fees.

 

Have just found this -

 

"Are there any goods that the bailiff cannot seize?

Bailiffs (except bailiffs acting on behalf of the magistrate's court - see below) cannot seize the following goods:

• tools, goods, vehicles and other items of equipment necessary for use by you in your employment, business or vocation;"
  

Does this mean he cannot levy upon the car as i use it to travel between clients and have personal as well as business ins.

Edited October 7, 2009 by 1_dadof_2

[seanamarts]

I couldnt find their email address but this may be of some use

Contact Us - Rossendales

[Jach]

 

Someone posted an excellent letter to hand a bailiff through a letterbox stating this point a couple of weeks ago if you search through other posts you will find it.

 

 

 

 

Think this may be the letter referred to above.

 

To: [NAME OF BAILIFF]

 

BY HAND

 

[DATE]

 

Dear Bailiffs,

 

Re: Your visit to [1st LINE OF ADDRESS]

 

The council appears to have instructed you to recover council tax arrears from me however, however there is an irregularity with your fees and is contrary to legislation.

 

This letter gives you notice that you are being denied peaceful entry to my home or to levy goods contained within and I will not be signing anything for you. This notice revokes your eligibility to charge a Walking Possessions fee or other fee relating to the handling of goods.

 

Please be advised it is not a "criminal offence" to deny a bailiff entry to my property, if you suggest otherwise I will report you to the police under Section 25 of the Theft Act 1968 and you may receive a criminal record . Meanwhile please provide me with a written breakdown of your fees you have demanded and put it through the letterbox.

 

A bailiff who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an offence under the Fraud Act 2006. Section 2 of the Act specifically describes a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss therefore, if no satisfactory refund is made to me within 24 hours from now I will automatically file a complaint to police under the 2006 Fraud Act and the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002. If you have charged VAT on unlawful fees then you may be reported for VAT fraud and your documents will be given in evidence. If you are certificated, a Form 4 will be filed.

 

This document has been passed to you by hand and a photograph of you standing outside reading it has just been taken as proof of delivery. I now ask that you quietly leave the property.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

YOUR NAME

 

 

Good luck

 

[seanamarts]

Ok will take them out of the car, have been trying to get through to the council to ask them for the actual owed amount but no luck just says operators are busy, will have to go by the original amount of C/T owed which is £482.18, and write to Rossendales asking for a full breakdown of C/T and fees.

 

Have just found this -

 

"Are there any goods that the bailiff cannot seize?

Bailiffs (except bailiffs acting on behalf of the magistrate's court - see below) cannot seize the following goods:

• tools, goods, vehicles and other items of equipment necessary for use by you in your employment, business or vocation;"
  

Does this mean he cannot levy upon the car as i use it to travel between clients and have personal as well as business ins.

 

I am afraid that they will still try and make a levy on your car as its not used specifically for work purposes they can say that you can take a cab or catch the bus, how ever if your car is subject to hire purchase or lease hire then they cannot take it or if your car is used as a disabled vehicle they cannot take it

[seanamarts]

by the way and I am probebly repeating what some one else has said, but he can only charge you for one visit so far and that is £24.50, if he makes another visit then he can add a fee of £18.00 thats if no levy has been made and he can only levy if he has made a peaceful entry into your home or he has been crafty and levied on your car. he cannot charge you for a visit and a levy fee its one or the other. thats all he can charge for for now.

[Jach]

I am afraid that they will still try and make a levy on your car as its not used specifically for work purposes they can say that you can take a cab or catch the bus, how ever if your car is subject to hire purchase or lease hire then they cannot take it or if your car is used as a disabled vehicle they cannot take it[/quote

 

Bailiffs will tell you anything, they told us they 'could indeed' take our car even when informed it was a disability car. DON'T LISTEN TO THEM, take the advice you are being given on here, I am having similar problems myself, so I understand, but this forum is now my bible!! There are wonderful, well informed people on here who will help you.

[seanamarts]

I hope you put that bailiff in his place as they cannot take a disabled vehicle at all and if they did they could indeed be in a lot of trouble. If a car is registered as a disabled car it should state on the TAX disc so the bailiff dosnt even have to do a DVLA check to see or not. even with badges or no badges showing

[1_dadof_2]

I have spoken to a nice lady at the C/T office and have explained the situation, she informed me that Rossendales have 2 liability orders one for 08/09 which = £326.31 and one for 09/10 which = £177.86 the total being £504.17 (Rossendales trying to ask for £514.81), but here is the strange thing, a bailiff came to the house on 22nd of sept and said we owed C/T of 177.86 plus fees which was their total of £205.86, we paid this in two parts and have kept both receipts one of which says balance owing - NIL, but neither receipt reference refer to any documentation that we have. Now that means to me that we have paid 09/10 C/T and only owe 08/09 outstanding amount of £326.31, but they seem to be trying to collect on 09/10 twice.

 

I am afraid that they will still try and make a levy on your car as its not used specifically for work purposes they can say that you can take a cab or catch the bus, how ever if your car is subject to hire purchase or lease hire then they cannot take it or if your car is used as a disabled vehicle they cannot take it

 

The car is not subject to HP or LH, and the car IS used for work as i have to have business use on it as i drive to multiple locations throughout the day as i look after vulnerable children and adults, so taking a cab is hindering my work.

 

Any idea's please.

[Slimrabbit]

To: [NAME OF BAILIFF]

 

BY HAND

 

[DATE]

 

Dear Bailiffs,

 

Re: Your visit to [1st LINE OF ADDRESS]

 

The council appears to have instructed you to recover council tax arrears/parking ticket from me however, as I have already cleared all debts therefore no money is due.

 

This letter gives you notice that you are being denied peaceful entry to my home or to levy goods contained within and I will not be signing anything for you. This notice revokes your eligibility to charge a Walking Possessions fee or other fee relating to the handling of goods.

 

Please be advised it is not a "criminal offence" to deny a bailiff entry to my property, if you suggest otherwise I will report you to the police under Section 25 of the Theft Act 1968 and you may receive a criminal record . Meanwhile please provide me with a written breakdown of your fees you have demanded and put it through the letterbox.

 

A bailiff who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an offence under the Fraud Act 2006. Section 2 of the Act specifically describes a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss therefore, if no satisfactory refund is made to me within 24 hours from now I will automatically file a complaint to police under the 2006 Fraud Act and the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002. If you have charged VAT on unlawful fees then you may be reported for VAT fraud and your documents will be given in evidence. If you are certificated, a Form 4 will be filed.

 

This document has been passed to you by hand and a photograph of you standing outside reading it has just been taken as proof of delivery. I now ask that you quietly leave the property.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

YOUR NAME

 

 

Borrowed from HT:p

[Slimrabbit]

You definatley need a breakdown of fees as they can't usethe same levy for two years. Will have a look for a breakdown of costs letter.

[1_dadof_2]

Cheers slim, i am writing a breakdown of cost letter tonight when i have a bit more peace, but i was also thinking of sending SAR (purely because i don't know exactly how much has been paid to them) for all details held about us for the last 6 years (i know the records don't go back that far but i know that is what i can ask upto) i just have no idea how to write that because all the SAR's i have come across have all been geared towards bank charges or CCA.

[Guest Happy Contrails]

You definatley need a breakdown of fees as they can't usethe same levy for two years. Will have a look for a breakdown of costs letter.

 

 

The Bailiff Company

Their Address 1

Their Address 2

Their Address 3

Postcode

 

BY POST AND BY EMAIL

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: [YOUR NAME + REF]: Your fees.

 

I write following visits by your bailiff however there appears to an irregularity with your fees and I am writing to ask you to provide me the following within seven (7) days:

 

1) The name of the court that issued the certificate for the bailiff in charge.

 

2) Written itemised breakdown of a) your fees, and b) the original debt.

 

3) The name and address of the organisation that instructed you

 

4) a) Truthfully confirm in writing your fees are lawful and comply with legislation or, b) refund me the unlawful fees plus reasonable compensation for being cheated by your bailiff with his fees by midday the seventh day from the date of this letter.

 

A bailiff or any other person who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an arrestable offence under the Fraud Act 2006. Section 2 of the Act specifically describes a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss therefore, if no satisfactory refund is made to me by 12.00 midday seven (7) days from the date of this letter I will automatically file a complaint to police under the 2006 Fraud Act and the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002. If you have charged VAT on unlawful fees then you may be reported for VAT fraud and your documents will be given in evidence.

 

Case law requires I recover unlawful bailiffs fees from your client that instructed you. If you fail to make the required refund within seven days I will automatically proceed by filing the claim at court.

 

This is a letter before action and is not a request to access any personal data as defined under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

This letter is delivered by Royal Mail and deem it good service upon you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It now is your responsibility and in your best interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

YOUR NAME

Copied to: [NAME OF COUNCIL]