Newlyn bailiffs/Council Tax

[thomas612]

Hi,

This is my problem in a nutshell:

At the beginning of August Haringey Council issued me a letter saying that my account was being passed to the bailiffs.

The problem is this - I never received the letter (I'm presuming because of the postal strikes) and as such had no idea that my account was with the bailiffs. I am moving home at the end of the month and called Haringey Council to close the account. They did so, noting that I had overpaid by £15 for which they would issue me a cheque, and remarking that I didn't have any further debt "with them", which is why the whole thing came to light.

By coincidence I received a letter today from Newlyn saying I owed £690. I called them, they said that they had been notified from Haringey that the account was paid up so it was just the outstanding £290 that I owed them. They have given me the dates of 3 visits to my home (none of which I was aware of!) and I have asked for a full breakdown of charges which apparently I will be sent.

Here are my issues:

1 - I don't think they actually made the visits. The letter I received today in the post was the first time I had ever heard of Newlyn. My building is such that if I am not home it is impossible to access the front door of my flat or my postbox. The alternative is to leave a letter with the doorman who will sign for it. So if they had made 3 visits, 3 letters should have been left with the doorman but none was.

2 - I made council tax payments in full and on time at the beginning of August, September and October.

3 - the account is now closed and I don't owe the council any money.

Can Newlyn still pursue me for £290.50 in charges? If so, how, since I didn't even know they had my account!

I'm finding this really intimidating; any advice you can offer would be much appreciated.

Many thanks

Cathy T

[Guest Happy Contrails]

Can Newlyn still pursue me for £290.50 in charges?

 

No they cant, the bailiff is just winding you up.

 

The law prescribing bailiffs fees for collecting unpaid council tax is the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 and provides £24.00 for a first visit and £18.00 for a second visit if one is made. No other bailiff's fees can lawfully be charged if a bailiff has not moved your goods in a vehicle and you have not signed any document consenting to a levy or a walking possessions agreement (currently a flat rate of £10).

 

The bailiff commits an offence under the 2006 Fraud Act if he tries to cheat with his fees - so wind the bailiffs up

 

The Bailiff Company

Their Address 1

Their Address 2

Their Address 3

Postcode

 

BY POST AND BY EMAIL

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: [YOUR NAME + REF]: Your fees.

 

I write following visits by your bailiff however there appears to an irregularity with your fees and I am writing to ask you to provide me the following within seven (7) days:

 

1) The name of the court that issued the certificate for the bailiff in charge.

 

2) Written itemised breakdown of a) your fees, and b) the original debt.

 

3) The name and address of the organisation that instructed you

 

4) a) Truthfully confirm in writing your fees are lawful and comply with legislation or, b) refund me the unlawful fees plus reasonable compensation for being cheated by your bailiff with his fees by midday the seventh day from the date of this letter.

 

A bailiff or any other person who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an arrestable offence under the Fraud Act 2006. Section 2 of the Act specifically describes a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss therefore, if no satisfactory refund is made to me by 12.00 midday seven (7) days from the date of this letter I will automatically file a complaint to police under the 2006 Fraud Act and the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002. If you have charged VAT on unlawful fees then you may be reported for VAT fraud and your documents will be given in evidence.

 

Case law requires I recover unlawful bailiffs fees from your client that instructed you. If you fail to make the required refund within seven days I will automatically proceed by filing the claim at court.

 

This is a letter before action and is not a request to access any personal data as defined under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

This letter is delivered by Royal Mail and deem it good service upon you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It now is your responsibility and in your best interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

YOUR NAME

Copied to: [NAME OF COUNCIL]

[thomas612]

That is great news, thank you so much for you advice!

[k1mmie]

thomas612 can you PM me the name of the bailiffs if known, as I have dealings with Newlyn! Thanks.

[thomas612]

I don't know the name of the bailiff unfortunately. I checked with my doorman and there are no letters and no records of any visit (no surprises there) but if I hear anything further I will be sure to let you know.

Cheers!

[seanamarts]

Looks like you do not owe a bean sir lol no visits made no fees incurred they are just p***sed that they didnt get in there first. thyey are hoping that you dont know your rights with regards to bailiff law. If they want their fees they will now have to take you to a small claims court and prove that they made a visit, I have not heard yet that any bailiff company has done this as they all lie about their charges and it would be laughed out of court. Oh and they would have to foot the bill lol

[lazamwa]

Thomas, sorry for what happened to you. I leave in Haringey borough too and same newlyn tried to con me same way as how they try with you. i refused to pay them and i threaten a legal action. they have since backed off. 6 months on no one disturbed me. their guy Shameer called me to apologies for the inconvienient they caused to me. do not pay them.

[k1mmie]

I'm afraid I am having to go the whole way with my complaint. Form 4 for bailiff and reg 46 for council. They refuse to accept I am right and the council are supporting them. So to prove I am being overcharged I have no choice but to take legal action.

[Guest Happy Contrails]

A Form 4 might not deliver the goods. Judges have a propensity to be dismissive with official complaints - even if it means contradicting existing case law.

 

If you want to start legal action then this procedure currently has a 100% success rate and often results in council pulling the bailiffs contract from under their feet.

 

Use the letter above and send a copy to the council with the letter below with any bailiff fee documents.

 

Head of Revenue

Borough Council

Address 1

Address 2

Address 3

Postcode

 

[DATE]

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Council tax arrears and your bailiffs fees

 

Please find a copy of a letter before action that has been delivered by even post to your contractor who is claiming you have instructed to act.

 

You contractor is cheating with his fees and it is my intention to reclaim them by filing proceedings in the small claims track if they are not refunded in full within seven days.

 

As the council is liable for its agents it is my intention to name the council as the principle defendant, however, Court rules require me to give the council reasonable opportunity to settle the claim beforehand.

 

If you wish to settle the claim, please pay me the sum described in the enclosed letter at the above address within seven days from the date of this letter.

 

You may wish to launch an investigation or make your own enquiries; this does not delay the proceedings being filed at Court, and to protect other taxpayers from being defrauded in this way, the case will pass to the Local Government Ombudsman.

 

These documents are delivered by Royal Mail and deem it good service upon you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It now is your responsibility and in your best interests they are handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

[YOUR NAME]

 

Encs:

1 Copy of letter to bailiff

2. Copy of bailiff document showing his fees.

 

If you don't get a refund in seven days or the bailiffs fob you off with excuses, download and complete a Form N1 from the HMCS website. The Defendants are addressed as:

 

THE MAYOR AND BURGESSES OF [NAME OF COUNCIL] 1st DEFENDANT

 

AND

 

[NAME OF BAILIFF COMPANY] 2nd DEFENDANT

 

Brief Details of the Claim - enter - Reclaiming unlawful bailiff's fees.

 

Particulars of claim:

 

I received a bailiff acting for the defendant collecting unpaid council tax. The bailiff dishonestly charged me [£AMOUNT] bailiffs fees contrary to the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 which prescribes £24.50 and reasonable costs for transporting a debtors goods in a van. The bailiff did not move any goods in a van and I did not sign any documents for the bailiff. I have been defrauded by the bailiff who is cheating with his fees and I asked for a refund but it was the bailiff’s choice to keep the money. On 20 April 2007, Lord Lucas in the House of Lords asked HM Government (inter-alia) "whether it would be right for the police to claim that such an action is a civil and not a criminal matter"? Baroness Scotland of Asthal, The Minister of State, Home Office replied: (inter-alia) "A bailiff or any other person who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an offence under the Fraud Act 2006". Reasonable costs have been defined by District Judge Advent on the 9th & 24th September 2008 presiding over Case No 8CL51015 Anthony Culligan (Claimant) v 1. Jason Simkin & 2. Marstons (Defendants). The court ruled that "because the bailiff produces no evidence as to how the charge had been arrived then he unable to show that it is reasonable". I claim i) the sum of [£AMOUNT], ii) Interest under Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from the date the money became due at the daily rate of 0.00022%, iii) reasonable costs the court thinks fit for being defrauded by the defendant iv) Reasonable costs the court thinks fit for Discovery of Information and compiling this case for court, v) costs allowed by the court costs allowed by the court at the prescribed rate.

 

If you are on a low income then complete an EX160 fee exemption form.

 

File the Form N1 at you local county court. The claim will be defended (with the same old bailiff's ramblings) and the court will send you an allocation questionnaire. Keep all documents and receipts given to you by the bailiff and await the hearing date. Do not be bullied by bailiffs or the council's barrister to get you to drop the claim. You want ALL your money back plus your costs and interest in CLEARED FUNDS. Go before the Judge and ask for it. When the judge has awarded your judgment, always ask the judge for your "costs of today at the prescribed amount", he'll award you an extra 60-quid on top of your costs. Remember, you are a litigant-in-person and court rules say the judge must advocate for you in court.

 

When a bailiff defrauds you with his fees he commits an arrestable offence.

 

The Chief Constable

Name of Police Authority

Address 1

Address 2

Address 3

Postcode

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Reporting a crime committed under the Fraud Act 2006

 

I enclose a document given to me by a man saying he is a bailiff firm [and threatened to commit breaking and entering and take property unless I pay him £AMOUNT]. He charged fees £AMOUNT when the law prescribes a fee of £24.50.

 

I appreciate the police have a propensity to dismiss bailiff crime to be a civil matter, but the official legal position is the bailiff commits an arrestable offence under the 2006 Fraud Act. Lord Lucas at the House of Lords on 20 April 2007 when he asked HM Government whether it would be right for the police to claim that such an action is a civil and not a criminal matter. The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Scotland of Asthal) replied with, inter-alia (quote) A bailiff or any other person who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an offence under the Fraud Act 2006 (unquote).

 

Section 1 means by which this offence can be committed is set out in Section 2, on fraud by false representation. This section applies where a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss. It is also possible that, where a bailiff repeatedly charges for work that has not been done, this conduct will amount to fraudulent trading either under Section 9 of the 2006 Act or under the provisions on fraudulent trading in company legislation.

 

The law can provide reasonable costs in respect of bailiffs transporting goods in a van (attending to remove fee) however no goods have been levied and no document has been signed by me. District Judge Advent on the 9th & 24th September 2008 presiding over Case 8CL51015 Anthony Culligan (Claimant) v 1. Jason Simkin & 2. Marstons (Defendants). The court ruled that (quote) because the bailiff produces no evidence as to how the charge had been arrived then he unable to show that it is reasonable (unquote).

 

Any offence committed under the 2006 Fraud Act is an arrestable offence under Section 24 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. Please assign a crime reference number and I request the crime is investigated professionally and objectively and I am happy to help you in your enquiries and stand as a prosecution witness at trial.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

 

YOUR NAME

Enc: copy of bailiff document giving contact details

 

If the police fob you off with excuses, write down the name and rank of the police officer and contact the IPCC and your MP with a written complaint of 'Perverting the Course of Justice'. It is an offence under Section 4 of the Criminal Law Act 1967 to conceal a crime under false pretences.

[k1mmie]

I have been guided by Tomtubby throughout these actions, as the situation went from bad to worse. I now have two court dates in November to get to the bottom and hopefully finalise 6 months of pure hell I have been through. Have complained to chief exec of council, bailiff company, ministry of justice, local government ombudsman and MP. So have exhausted all avenues.