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    • If you are flying away tomorrow (or rather this) morning I'd just forget about complaining to the police now.  As BF said earlier it's probably just a waste of your time anyway so I wouldn't worry about it.  Forget it for now.  Have a safe flight and concentrate on your other thread against Aviva.
    • I'm afraid you won't get a complaint drafted before tomorrow morning - and I think most others here think it would be a waste of time anyway and that the police decision won't change.  I would ask for a review and make a complaint on principle, but I suspect you are better off concentrating your effort on your other thread and direct complaint against Aviva.   Unless you are out of the country for an extended period I'd wait until your return before considering futrther whwther to complain about the police.   [ By the way, just so that you don't mislead yourself as it's a mistake many people make, ALL agreements are "verbal" in that they are composed of words.  Some agreements are in writing and others are oral, spoken or vocal.  The law recognises oral or spoken agreements just as much as ones that are written down.  The only practical difference is that oral agreements can be difficult to prove in a dispute]
    • Just to add there is a scheme called the Victim's Right to Review.  It basically applies to decisions made by the CPS not to go ahead with a prosecution.  It doesn't apply to decisions made by local police forces, but it does say:   19.  Decisions that are not eligible for VRR include: ... iii where the police or other investigator exercises their independent discretion not to investigate or not to investigate a case further (whether in consultation with the CPS or not) and the CPS have not been requested / have been unable to make a final decision to charge. Requests for review of such decisions should instead be addressed to the relevant police force/other investigator; [My bold] Victims' Right to Review Scheme | The Crown Prosecution Service WWW.CPS.GOV.UK   I'm not familiar with the scheme so can't advise - but other posters here may know about it or have experience of it.  You need to read the above link but note that it talks about things that seem to fit your situation.   eg a victim is defined as ‘a person who has made an allegation that they have suffered harm, including physical, mental or emotional harm or economic loss which was directly caused by criminal conduct’.   If you have not already requested that the police review their decision not to pass the case onto the CPS, then I would do so.  If you are not happy with the outcome of that, complain.   I can't advise you definitely to go ahead and ask for a review or complain, but if I were in your situation that is what I would do.  But I tend to agree with BankFodder that you'll get nowhere and, if you are sick and tired of all this and just want it to go away, then just drop the police.  However, if you don't try...   [Apologies for the italic typeface/font - it's the above link causing it.  The italics should have stopped at the end of the third para above ending ' ... criminal conduct'.  I can't change it.  Very annoying]
    • @Manxman in exile I eloped to get with my husband si my husband and siblings never sat together in the same room .   Hes claiming a verbal agreement was made but a verbal agreement doesn't hold any water in the eyes of the law..no agreement was made I was in Leeds with my toddler.    He has made use of the policy , had the luxury of the insurance and reversed the money back and now Aviva are coming after me.   You've summed it up well is there anyone in the group that can help me draft the complaint to the police as I'm flying out first thing tomorrow and my head is all over the place.   My husband me Mr z , my late father and eldest brother were at this meeting supposedly when the verbal agreement was made but yet the officer took a statement off the eldest brother and didn't take it off the husband and based the final decision on the eldest brothers statement and Mr Z and all other evidence which is in written form has been completely dismissed    I'm fighting it all alone coming from an Asian background I am getting taunts and salt is bring rubbed on my wounds its not been a pleasant experience yo say the least trying to prove my innocence and having to listen to the b******* being spouted out by everyone whilst Mr Z is walking away not guilty 
    • I would complain to the police - even if I thought it would go nowhere.  I can't see that you have anything to lose.   I can't tell you the grounds of your complaint because I don't know the details of everything that has happened (you know better than I do)  and because I've found much of the story too difficult to follow.     But - based on everything you have told us - it seems to me that your brother has clearly committed fraud by obtaining the benefit of an insurance policy by falsely misrepresenting that he was opening the policy on your behalf and also by falsely misrepresenting himself - or a third party - as being your husband.  If your brother could not have taken out that policy without making those misrepresentations, then he has committed fraud.  It doesn't matter whether the victim was Aviva or you  and it doesn't matter if the victim realises they've been defrauded or not - the police should investigate it properly.  In this case you are the ultimate victim of the fraud because Aviva are saying that you owe them for the premiums on the policy your brother fraudulently took out, so whether Aviva consider they were the victims of fraud or not is irrelevant - they don't care because you end up as the fall guy.  Point out that this may have ended in a civil dispute over a debt between you and Aviva, but that that debt directly arises as a result of your brother's fraud in claiming to be acting on your behalf and by impersonating your brother.   One of the reasons the police seem to have dropped this case (and this needs to be one of your main grounds of complaint I think) is that they have accepted without question your brother's statement that your husband was somehow involved or in some way agreed to your brother taking this policy out in your name, and the police have simply and uncritically accepted your brother's word on that without ever speaking to your husband, who would vigourously deny it.    (I can't make any better suggestion than that because, to be honest, I don't follow what has happened.  If you never authorised your brother to open this insurance policy at all then I don't understand why the police would place any importance at all on your husband being present at a meeting with your brother.  What did your husband's presence have to do with the insurance policy?  Even if he had been at such meeting (which you say he denies) then how could he authorise anything on your behalf?  None of it makes any sense to me and I can't see why the police would think it did.)   Challenge the police to explain to you why they believe there is insufficient evidence to pass this on to the CPS   I would follow the published complaints procedure of the police force in question and I would also send a copy to your local Police and Crime Commissioner.   I think the main problem here is that (despite what the nice woman PC may have suggested to you) the police have never considered you to be the victim.  You need to demonstrate to them via your complaint that you are the victim here.   One other question: is your husband and are your family supporting you through this, or are you going it alone?
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Secret/undisclosed commissions...


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Thanks Sparkie ,.. will give it another read but sounds good to me ,

 

its just another point to pile pressure on my lenders , i have them on the rope's regarding secret commission's to broker ,

 

i have a disclosure hearing in august and looking to request all documents which will be damaging to the lenders ,

 

will the lenders also have a copy of the in's and out's of the policy I had? ,..

 

I have requested details from lenders regarding commissions from insurance providers , but not willing to disclose as no fidcuiary duty ,.. and have this in writing ,..

 

I now know this is not true and definately a duty to me as 3rd party provide the insurance ,..

 

again thanks for your thoughts as many do not seem to be looking at this angle , or unless i am that slow and can not find the threads

 

best wishes & thoughts

 

Hi again Michellej1

 

For your disclosure hearing ...have a good look at CPR31.16 its a tough CPR this one but you may have to use it ....but you have to ge it right.

 

The lender will have all details of the insurance ....so don't let them try to bluff you.

 

sparkie

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I did request documents and info under this act , but they would not play ball ,

 

I will be getting the underwriters sheet regarding agreement as my concerns and points raised are secret commissions to broker ,.. a judge as said it will be ordered at next hearing and more or less the only way it will not be disclosed is if the lender agree's that my concerns are rightly so (hence no underwriters sheet needed) if denied then full disclosure ,..

 

i must say the judge did say be carefull in what you are likely to request,..

 

i have thought about that passage of thought over the last week ,..

 

I have hit them also for raising the interest (over 10 seperate time) not raising the monthly payments and just adding the extra to balance so account is constantly in arrears ,..

 

they would like to address this concern with a £7500 offer,.. as if interest never altered , then set at first interest rate amount owed £7500 less , which we will reduce from balance if you sign a condition form that this will be the end of matter's ,..

 

obviously i did not accept ,.. with disclosure so close and game more or less over ,... my agreement show's that i never paid a commission fee ,.. so who did ? as the broker was independant from GE ,

 

had to be as they do not deal direct with consumers ,.. so who paid the broker ,.. not me , and no mention of we might pay broker or any words to that effect , so pure secret commission

 

and i have paid more then the bare bones of the loan , which includes a single payment ppi policy ,..

 

I will not let the bluff me Sparkie , no way , not when we are so close to a victorty over these sharks ,..

 

but i too will hopefully get data from insurers who i believe have washed they hands of GE Money ,

 

i will request full ppi policy data from lenders at disclosure hearing along with agreement underwriters sheet which will prove commissions paid ,

 

and if they wish to alter the doc's, then some explianing to do as they can not pass it off and say well you paid the commission ,..

 

as agreement say otherwise ,..

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The judge said be careful with what you ask to disclose because under a proper CPR Application ....note not a request...........under a court CPR 31.16 application for an order to be made....what you ask for has to be specifically stated.... ie ....just underwriting sheet is not enough

You have to state " The underwriting sheet appertaining to insurance policy Number so & so taken out for so & so ,,,,with so & so.... on so so agreement on date etc etc.

That's how specific it has to be....that's why he said be careful....because if it is not right he MUST refuse to make the order that CPR tells him so.

 

Can you follow??

 

sparkie

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yes I think I am with you , but the underwriters sheet will be regarding the agreement but request will include to get the info for details on ppi policy ,..

 

so can be looked at as relisted for directions appointment ,..

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Hi, after being sent the info I requested via a SAR regarding some car finance we took out in 2003 I have found out that the broker who we thought was working with the finance company had charge nearly £1500 that was not disclosed to us. We have written to the company involved asking for an explanation but have had nothing back. As the payment was not disclosed where does this leave us?

 

JJ

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Hi, after being sent the info I requested via a SAR regarding some car finance we took out in 2003 I have found out that the broker who we thought was working with the finance company had charge nearly £1500 that was not disclosed to us. We have written to the company involved asking for an explanation but have had nothing back. As the payment was not disclosed where does this leave us?

 

JJ

Hi JJ

Is the agreement still active ...if it isnt when did it end?

 

sparkie

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Hi, after being sent the info I requested via a SAR regarding some car finance we took out in 2003 I have found out that the broker who we thought was working with the finance company had charge nearly £1500 that was not disclosed to us. We have written to the company involved asking for an explanation but have had nothing back. As the payment was not disclosed where does this leave us?

 

JJ

 

I personally would take this up with the finance company as they are an accessory to this breach , as their paid it to your broker ,

 

if you have all the evidence and the company invovled do not address this concern then I would start legal proceedings / small claim for amount of commission , and if a secret commission as you believe , I too would be looking to get the interest charged on the finance removed ,

 

And i believe you can elect to be in the same postion before the contract was made ,..

 

so screen cost of car or return the car and recieve back all monies paid

 

well thats my thoughts sure someone with more knowledge will be a long to advise you the best way forward

 

but do chase it up , best of luck

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The judge said be careful with what you ask to disclose because under a proper CPR Application ....note not a request...........under a court CPR 31.16 application for an order to be made....what you ask for has to be specifically stated.... ie ....just underwriting sheet is not enough

You have to state " The underwriting sheet appertaining to insurance policy Number so & so taken out for so & so ,,,,with so & so.... on so so agreement on date etc etc.

That's how specific it has to be....that's why he said be careful....because if it is not right he MUST refuse to make the order that CPR tells him so.

 

Can you follow??

 

sparkie

 

Hi again Sparkie

 

Just been reading the CPR 31.16 , and realised that this is used before court proceedings have commenced , so am I right in thinking that I would request under CPR 31.6 ? Standard disclosure

 

Disclosure before proceedings start

 

31.16

 

(1) This rule applies where an application is made to the court under any Act for disclosure before proceedings have started1.

 

(2) The application must be supported by evidence.

 

(3) The court may make an order under this rule only where –

(a) the respondent is likely to be a party to subsequent proceedings;

 

(b) the applicant is also likely to be a party to those proceedings;

 

© if proceedings had started, the respondent’s duty by way of standard disclosure, set out in rule 31.6, would extend to the documents or classes of documents of which the applicant seeks disclosure; and

 

(d) disclosure before proceedings have started is desirable in order to –

(i) dispose fairly of the anticipated proceedings;

 

(ii) assist the dispute to be resolved without proceedings; or

 

(iii) save costs.

 

 

 

(4) An order under this rule must –

(a) specify the documents or the classes of documents which the respondent must disclose; and

 

(b) require him, when making disclosure, to specify any of those documents –

(i) which are no longer in his control; or

 

(ii) in respect of which he claims a right or duty to withhold inspection.

 

 

 

(5) Such an order may –

(a) require the respondent to indicate what has happened to any documents which are no longer in his control; and

 

(b) specify the time and place for disclosure and inspection.

 

Standard disclosure – what documents are to be disclosed

 

31.6

 

Standard disclosure requires a party to disclose only –

(a) the documents on which he relies; and

 

(b) the documents which –

(i) adversely affect his own case;

 

(ii) adversely affect another party’s case; or

 

(iii) support another party’s case; and

 

 

© the documents which he

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Hi again Sparkie

 

Just been reading the CPR 31.16 , and realised that this is used before court proceedings have commenced , so am I right in thinking that I would request under CPR 31.6 ? Standard disclosure

 

Disclosure before proceedings start

 

31.16

 

(1) This rule applies where an application is made to the court under any Act for disclosure before proceedings have started1.

 

(2) The application must be supported by evidence.

 

(3) The court may make an order under this rule only where –

(a) the respondent is likely to be a party to subsequent proceedings;

 

(b) the applicant is also likely to be a party to those proceedings;

 

© if proceedings had started, the respondent’s duty by way of standard disclosure, set out in rule 31.6, would extend to the documents or classes of documents of which the applicant seeks disclosure; and

 

(d) disclosure before proceedings have started is desirable in order to –

(i) dispose fairly of the anticipated proceedings;

 

(ii) assist the dispute to be resolved without proceedings; or

 

(iii) save costs.

 

 

 

(4) An order under this rule must –

(a) specify the documents or the classes of documents which the respondent must disclose; and

 

(b) require him, when making disclosure, to specify any of those documents –

(i) which are no longer in his control; or

 

(ii) in respect of which he claims a right or duty to withhold inspection.

 

 

 

(5) Such an order may –

(a) require the respondent to indicate what has happened to any documents which are no longer in his control; and

 

(b) specify the time and place for disclosure and inspection.

 

Standard disclosure – what documents are to be disclosed

 

31.6

 

Standard disclosure requires a party to disclose only –

(a) the documents on which he relies; and

 

(b) the documents which –

(i) adversely affect his own case;

 

(ii) adversely affect another party’s case; or

 

(iii) support another party’s case; and

 

 

© the documents which he

Hi michelle

You have read it right you use this before proceedings start you use CPR 6 if proceedings have started to request further info

 

sparkie

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Thanks for clearing that up Sparkie ,.. it does not really give much info regarding CPR.6 , I have read a good few of your posts and seem to have a good handle on this subject ,

 

well its something i need to learn as it will be used for disclosure in August , can not wait now for disclosure ,

 

and i think lenders will think twice about deleting any info , as no where on my agreement does it say i paid a broker's fee ,.. so removal of the secret commission will leave them wide open for attack and explanation , as these lenders do not deal with consumers direct and can only be approched by an independant broker ,..

 

plus i am looking into secret commissions regarding PPI ,..

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Great work Frettful , absolute great read and news , sure you will spread the word , as this covers unregulated agreements aswell , its about time we started hearing stories like this , and give all the hope to continue the fight

 

again well done and thanks , we have the 140 in our defence so will be re-reading this again

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  • 2 weeks later...

WANTED ~ G E Money's EMAIL ADDRESS / LITIGATION DEPARTMENT

 

Can legal fee's be debited to my account ? whilst we are in the middle of Court proceedings , regarding the enforceability of the whole agreement ,

 

I was in the belief that legal fee's are covered by the losing party , and as the case is still under the Courts , how can they justify adding Legal fees to my account which will also be subject to interest charges ?

 

And it is GE legal team who continue to request adjournments , making every excuse in the book not to answer concerns in the defence statement ,

 

The agreement will eventually be declared VOID , as constructed on Fraud/Bride , plus many other points /concerns that breach our contract

 

I appreciate and understand , that they can add whatever charges or fees to my account as they wish , which will see the balance owed increase , but I believe that the balance regardless what it states will be corrected once agreement is declared VOID,

 

As sure if Lenders are proven to be in the wrong then no legal fees should be added to my account anyway ,..

 

I am going to email Litigation plus the Solicitors who are acting for GE ,

 

The last time we were at court GE wanted the hearing adjourned on the grounds they have not recieved the defence, I proved in court that the defence was sent to them , plus the previous case adjourned 8 weeks previously , as only recieved defence a few days before our hearing ,

 

so to strike for legal costs for the attendence of they barrister , after they request adjournments on false grounds and can be proven , DOES NOT SOUND RIGHT TO ME , and I will be giving them a piece of my mind

 

As not only should we not be in court as agreement is flawed BIG TIME, they lie to get the case adjourned , which increase the legal costs

 

So lets just keep dragging it on , does not cost us nothing , as we hit the borrower each and everytime we go to court , we do not have to wait till final outcome , as we cover this in our terms in the agreement ,

 

Well they can continue to play games , but they are digging themselves a BIG hole

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Cab1ne-Lombard-Shoosmiths **Claim Recieved**

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?181761-Cab1ne-Lombard-Shoosmiths-**Claim-Recieved**/page25

Summary Judgement 01/02/2011 **REFUSED** set for trial "May 23rd To June 30th 2011"

DISCONTINUED 3rd MAY 2011 **WON**

 

santander" Responsible Lending!!!!!!!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?219431-quot-santander-quot-Responsible-Lending!!!!!!!

 

Capquest "V" Cab1ne

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?262962-Capquest-quot-V-quot-Cab1ne

 

"STAYED"

 

CAB "Sittin Tight"

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you are very welcome sparkie "took me 2hrs to find it" following this thread like a hawk, as i have a very simular situation, and i came across the underwriting sheet by accident. (the fos are useful sometimes)icon10.gif

 

cab

Cab1ne-Lombard-Shoosmiths **Claim Recieved**

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?181761-Cab1ne-Lombard-Shoosmiths-**Claim-Recieved**/page25

Summary Judgement 01/02/2011 **REFUSED** set for trial "May 23rd To June 30th 2011"

DISCONTINUED 3rd MAY 2011 **WON**

 

santander" Responsible Lending!!!!!!!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?219431-quot-santander-quot-Responsible-Lending!!!!!!!

 

Capquest "V" Cab1ne

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?262962-Capquest-quot-V-quot-Cab1ne

 

"STAYED"

 

CAB "Sittin Tight"

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you are very welcome sparkie "took me 2hrs to find it" following this thread like a hawk, as i have a very simular situation, and i came across the underwriting sheet by accident. (the fos are useful sometimes)icon10.gif

 

cab

 

Yes Cab.....most people only get the underwriting sheet by accident they will not supply it I've made a cpr31.16 request for them to supply it see how that goes:cool:

sparkie

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All fingers Crossed m8, by the way, its a cracking thread.

 

cab

Cab1ne-Lombard-Shoosmiths **Claim Recieved**

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?181761-Cab1ne-Lombard-Shoosmiths-**Claim-Recieved**/page25

Summary Judgement 01/02/2011 **REFUSED** set for trial "May 23rd To June 30th 2011"

DISCONTINUED 3rd MAY 2011 **WON**

 

santander" Responsible Lending!!!!!!!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?219431-quot-santander-quot-Responsible-Lending!!!!!!!

 

Capquest "V" Cab1ne

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?262962-Capquest-quot-V-quot-Cab1ne

 

"STAYED"

 

CAB "Sittin Tight"

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"oh sugar" icon9.gif looking at the case law provided earlier, it does seem the same.

 

cab

Cab1ne-Lombard-Shoosmiths **Claim Recieved**

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?181761-Cab1ne-Lombard-Shoosmiths-**Claim-Recieved**/page25

Summary Judgement 01/02/2011 **REFUSED** set for trial "May 23rd To June 30th 2011"

DISCONTINUED 3rd MAY 2011 **WON**

 

santander" Responsible Lending!!!!!!!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?219431-quot-santander-quot-Responsible-Lending!!!!!!!

 

Capquest "V" Cab1ne

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?262962-Capquest-quot-V-quot-Cab1ne

 

"STAYED"

 

CAB "Sittin Tight"

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