Speed camera - can I get out of this

[johnny_lynch]

Hi,

 

I was caught at this stupid speed camera doing 56- cowley road - Google Maps

 

In a 30 on the Cowley Road in Oxfordshire.

 

I would of slowed for it but I wasn't familiar with the area and also I didn't think speed cameras could flash you from the front? (I assumed it was doing the traffic in the toher direction) It flashed me before I had even passed it. I did brake a bit but it wasn't enough as the camera was just round a bend as you can see.

 

Also the letter arrived 25 DAYS after I did the offence, athough the date at the top of the letter is less than the 14 day limit. So can I use this to get out of it or am I in for it

 

I've got 9 points on my license already and I don't want to be disqualified, also they haven't offered me the fixed penalty meaning I do need to go to court about this. Maybe I could request this or a driver awareness course.

 

Cheers, Johnny.

[PGH7447]

56 in a 30 zone is an automatic ban anyway isnt it

[johnny_lynch]

Well yes & no - it's discretionary apparently. I'll get banned either way if I am done for it!

 

I know 56 in 30 sounds fast but it was late with very little traffic and the road is quite wide so you don't feel dangerous - very un resonable!

[silverfox1961]

I may get slammed for this but, you were speeding. take the punishment

 

You say you would have slowed down for it. I assume you mean the speed camera if you had seen it in time. That says to me that you would have slowed down for the camera but then sped up once past it.

 

I'm biased as I've been on the receiving end of a speeding driver. I also don't speed (deliberately)

[david1605red]

Hi,

 

I was caught at this stupid speed camera doing 56- cowley road - Google Maps

 

In a 30 on the Cowley Road in Oxfordshire.

 

I would of slowed for it but I wasn't familiar with the area and also I didn't think speed cameras could flash you from the front? (I assumed it was doing the traffic in the toher direction) It flashed me before I had even passed it. I did brake a bit but it wasn't enough as the camera was just round a bend as you can see.

 

Also the letter arrived 25 DAYS after I did the offence, athough the date at the top of the letter is less than the 14 day limit. So can I use this to get out of it or am I in for it

 

I've got 9 points on my license already and I don't want to be disqualified, also they haven't offered me the fixed penalty meaning I do need to go to court about this. Maybe I could request this or a driver awareness course.

 

Cheers, Johnny.

That is a Truvelo, not a Gatso camera, and they do flash (magenta tinted) as you approach them.

 

The police have to send out the NIP to the registered keeper within 14 days of the offence. If you are the RK, and haven't recently bought the car or moved house, and have the V5 in your name at your address, you may have a defence - check the postmark on the envelope the stuff came in.

 

They won't offer any fixed penalty until you return the form confirming who was driving, which you must do within 28 days in any case.

 

You can't request a driver awareness course, it's up to the police who normally offer it to first-time offenders who are within 10% + 6mph of the limit - so don't hold your breath.

 

If you haven't got a defence using the 14 day rule, you may need to think about checking bus timetables - 56 in a 30 will go to court, and may result in a ban.

[mightymouse_69]

Did you actiually see the camera flash?

 

If so, it seems odd, as the speed cameras that take a front vue of the car should never 'flash' as such - they use infra red (so not to blind drivers.)

 

Nether the less, i assume that there is little point in argueing about the camera.

 

You say it arrived 25 days late, it is still valid unless the 'issue date' is over 14 days from the offence date, so no getting out of it there.

 

You have not been offered a conditonal offer - probably because of your existing points.

[david1605red]

You say it arrived 25 days late, it is still valid unless the 'issue date' is over 14 days from the offence date, so no getting out of it there.

The issue date is not the important thing, it's the date it was posted, which can be determined from the postmark on the envelope.

 

If they posted it after the 13th day, it couldn't have reached the RK by day 14 and would therefore be invalid, and the envelope would be proof of that.

[gwc1000]

56 in a 30 can only be dealt with at Court. No chance of a fixed penalty. It carries six points and a fine or a short ban.

[mightymouse_69]

What is the 14 day rule?

 

The 14 day rule relates only to the period of time in which the Police/Process Unit must serve the original Notice. The Police do not have to prove that the Notice reached its intended recipient within 14 days, merely that in the normal course of events, it should have arrived. In many cases, the registered keeper will be a lease company not the actual driver with the result that even if the driver is unaware of the incident, service of the Notice is good if it was sent to arrive at the registered keeper's last known address within 14 days of the offence.

The Notice of Intended Prosecution was issued out of time, what do I do now?

 

If you are the registered keeper of the vehicle and the ISSUE date on the Notice of Intended Prosecution is more than 14 days after the offence, then you can reject it. This only applies if it is dated more than 14 days after the alleged offence. It does not apply if it is dated within 14 days but received more than 14 days after the offence. If the NIP has been issued too late, then you should return it to the Process Office stating that you reject it because it is time barred. Bear in mind that if you are not the registered keeper, the NIP may have originally been issued within time and sent to the keeper.

 

Source: Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP)

[johnny_lynch]

Yes the camera flashed, it was white - just like any other camera. Straight in my face!

 

However if it is infra red maybe it was something else. How odd...

 

Grrr - it's so frustrating, I waited 14 days, nothing arrived, and I thought I was off. I didn't expect it to arrive in twice that time!

 

OK well thanks all - guess I've done the crime so I will have to do the time!

[johnny_lynch]

WOW. It looks like the letter was POSTED on the 21st according to the postmark.

 

I wonder who I go to wtih my defence? this is great news

[postggj]

i know the road well

 

sorry no sympathy

 

its a residential road

 

ive seen no end of accidents

 

i work in cowley

 

well used to

[gwc1000]

i know the road well

 

sorry no sympathy

 

its a residential road

 

ive seen no end of accidents

 

i work in cowley

 

well used to

I'm with you, postggj.

I find it incredible that somebody with 9 points would drive at 56 in a 30.

[johnny_lynch]

OK I have found this template letter which I will send off

http://www.clearlicence.co.uk/caught/response_letter.doc

 

It looks like i've got away with it this time.

 

Cheers

 

Johnny

[mightymouse_69]

What date did:

 

The offence occur,

The NIP issued (see the issue date)

The NIP get posted - date mark on envelope

NIP arrive.

[david1605red]

Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, Section 1, parts 2 and 3 are as follows:

 

(2) A notice shall be deemed for the purposes of subsection (1)© above to have been served on a person if it was sent by registered post or recorded delivery service addressed to him at his last known address, notwithstanding that the notice was returned as undelivered or was for any other reason not received by him.

(3) The requirement of subsection (1) above shall in every case be deemed to have been complied with unless and until the contrary is proved.

 

What this means is that the police have to show they posted it in time to reach the RK within 14 days, known as a rebuttable presumption of service.

 

The onus then falls on the RK to prove, if he can, that it didn't reach him inside 14 days. The envelope, postmarked later than 14 days, can provide that proof, so if this is what happened to the OP, no case to answer.

[Lula]

In my experience, if you dont know a road well, you slow down, not do nearly double the limit, sometimes, justice just isnt done, i do hope that he doesnt get away with it, one day he might be driving down any of our roads !

[lamma]

motoringlawyers website dances around the issue. The starty off correctly "For certain offences, the process can be started by serving a Notice of Intended Prosecution Pursuant to Section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act." and then go off a bit. It has to be served inside the 14 day rule the issue date is irrelevant. Service of the NIP is rebuttable desspite the assumption of service (Interpretation Act). Also at the moment many parts of the country are not experiencing 'the ordinary course of the post'. There are well known exemptions to the 14 day rule. I this the first NIP in the chain ? What is the docref date on the V5C ? Has there been a recent change of address ?

[Startkey&Clutch]

In my experience, if you dont know a road well, you slow down, not do nearly double the limit, sometimes, justice just isnt done, i do hope that he doesnt get away with it, one day he might be driving down any of our roads !

 

I'm with Lula here, 56 in a 30 regardless of time of day/night is taking the mick, especially with 9 points already! I'm sure its not what the original poster wants to hear, but you deserve everything you get.

[johnny_lynch]

I've sent a letter to Thames valley police as well as a photocopy of the enveope with the postmark encircled which proves I could not have got the notice in time.

 

In the meantime I'm not sure whether to respond to the Notice Of Intended Prosecution!

 

Hopefully it won't come to that, and they'll respond promptly... fingers crossed!!

[lamma]

There are well known exemptions to the 14 day rule. Do any of them apply to your NIP ?

[johnny_lynch]

Just got a reply from the Thames constabulary, they have let me off the charge along with a snooty message at the bottom about how I need to drive at a safe speed in the future...

 

my ass! I was driving a perfect speed, i was just unlucky to get caught. glad i got off, cheers for your help.

[Lula]

Hopefully it wont be long before you are actually caught and banned, that is the only lesson that people like you heed.

[silverfox1961]

Just got a reply from the Thames constabulary, they have let me off the charge along with a snooty message at the bottom about how I need to drive at a safe speed in the future...

 

my ass! I was driving a perfect speed, i was just unlucky to get caught. glad i got off, cheers for your help.

 

 

You arrogant fool.

[mkb]

Just got a reply from the Thames constabulary, they have let me off the charge along with a snooty message at the bottom about how I need to drive at a safe speed in the future...

 

my ass! I was driving a perfect speed, i was just unlucky to get caught. glad i got off, cheers for your help.

 

 

Can't imagine anyone being hit by you at that spped would feel that it was a 'perfect speed' nor the surviving relatives.

 

It's only a matter of time before you either kill someone by persisting in this behaviour or, preferably, a very long ban before someone gets killed.