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Most Recent Legislation - yellow lines and zig zags


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I have been looking through the 'Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 (SI 2002/3113)'[1], but I was after even more information!

 

1. Does anyone know if SI 2002/3113 been superseded by any legislation?

 

2. Also, SI 2002/3113 talks about the physical description of road markings and signs, and which signs go with which markings, etc.; but I would like to know which legislation actually covers the definition of being parked, so that I can see exactly what it says about being parked on yellow lines, etc. Is it simply the Highway Code or do you know if there is specific legislation?

 

Why?

 

I am planning to challenge a PCN, but want to be sure of my facts first.

 

Background: My PCN includes photos taken by a CCTV operator (?) 'served by post on the basis of a record produced by an approved device'! My car was parked on a single yellow line [2]. There were not any of the required 'no parking' signs [3] displayed by the side of the road. The confusion lies, because either side of the 'normal' single yellow line, there are two separate school site entrances, each of which have a separate set of yellow zig-zag lines, which are complete entities in themeselves as defined in [4]. The reason given for the PCN is "Stopped in a restricted area outside a school". I think the CCTV operator has seen all of the yellow zig zags and assumed that I was parked on one. For completeness, the signs next to school zig zags [5] clearly refer to 'entrance markings' [4]. Nevertheless, I wonder whether or not it is relevant that the PCN refers to being 'stopped ina restricted area outside a school' whereas the road markings and signs refer to parking restrictions on the 'school entrance markings'.

 

NB: I am not trying to get off a PCN on a technicality. I would never park on a school zig zag. My first thought when I got the PCN through the post was the embarrassment of having not realised I had been parking illegally outside a school. My second thought has been, "Wait a second, I can park there, can't I?"

 

Thanks for your comments!

 

[1] The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002

[2] Diagram 1017 in [1]

[3] Diagrams 637.2, 639, 639.1B or 650.3 in [1]

[4] Diagram 1027.1 in [1]

[5] Diagram 642.2A in [1]

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If you were in a CPZ no sign is needed for the yellow lines.

 

In any event some simple photos to show the fact that you were not on a zig zag but on a SYL will show that you did not commit the alleged contravention. A simple "the contravention did not occur" challenge is all that is required.

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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Bernie-the-Bolt: Thanks for the advice. I will keep it simple:

 

"The photographs show that the alleged contrevention did not occur."

 

May I ask one more question. Is a Controlled Parking Zone an area indicated by a sign as you drive into it - or is a controlled parking zone something else? I'm a bit confused about single yellow lines being allowed without a sign because how would one know what times parking was restricted?

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You should take some pictures and post them here as well.

 

I will try to post pictures - I think I read somewhere that I have to open a flikr account. Will try.

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some sign is that have since become withdrawn. you also have to check the updates since TSGRD http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/workingdrawings/listofdrawingswithdrawnupdat4319

 

Lamma, the link didn't work for me.

 

But I did find this Traffic signs legislation

but ... I can't tell whether or not it is a summary of SI 2003/3113 or something different.

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Is a Controlled Parking Zone an area indicated by a sign as you drive into it - or is a controlled parking zone something else? I'm a bit confused about single yellow lines being allowed without a sign because how would one know what times parking was restricted?

 

It's the bit in bold. That will specify the times of operation of the SYLs (unless they are individually signed to the contrary). DYLs require no signage as they apply "at any time".

 

Outside a CPZ SYLs must have their times of operation individually signed.

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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I have uploaded photos to flikr.

 

Do I simply post them here by clicking on the photo button and then entering the web address of my photos?

 

But ... wouldn't this give you guys access to all my photos?

 

What is the secure/recommended way of uploading the photos?

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I have uploaded photos to flikr.

 

Do I simply post them here by clicking on the photo button and then entering the web address of my photos?

 

But ... wouldn't this give you guys access to all my photos?

 

What is the secure/recommended way of uploading the photos?

 

Use tinypic.com its simple, takes a few minutes and you dont have to waste time registering.

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Lamma, the link didn't work for me.

 

But I did find this Traffic signs legislation

but ... I can't tell whether or not it is a summary of SI 2003/3113 or something different.

 

They changed the site. I tested the link when I posted it. suggest Traffic Signs and Signals also a good place to start contains this Signs no longer prescribed by TSRGD plus other good information

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Please help me with linking photos from flikr. (I have looked for the answer in the FAQs here and on Flikr.)

 

I clicked "share it" on Flikr, which gave me a link. I logged out of flikr and then clicked the link and it asked for a password. Does that mean the picture won't be accessible here on my thread?

 

If so, this might be obvious, but it is probably because I selected - don't share my photos. Is this the only way to proceed?

 

But, if I have to make my photo visible to all, then, what if I want to share photos about one thing with one forum, and photos about another thing on another forum, without necessarily linking the photos together (assuming that people can click on the link to the photo and then see all of my shared photos). I might be worrying a bit too much, but if someone can explain the way to go about uploading pics, I would be v grateful.

 

PS. Other users have asked me to upload pics!

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Please help me with linking photos from flikr. (I have looked for the answer in the FAQs here and on Flikr.)

 

I clicked "share it" on Flikr, which gave me a link. I logged out of flikr and then clicked the link and it asked for a password. Does that mean the picture won't be accessible here on my thread?

 

If so, this might be obvious, but it is probably because I selected - don't share my photos. Is this the only way to proceed?

 

But, if I have to make my photo visible to all, then, what if I want to share photos about one thing with one forum, and photos about another thing on another forum, without necessarily linking the photos together (assuming that people can click on the link to the photo and then see all of my shared photos). I might be worrying a bit too much, but if someone can explain the way to go about uploading pics, I would be v grateful.

 

PS. Other users have asked me to upload pics!

 

Use tinypic.com its simple, takes a few minutes and you dont have to waste time registering!!

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You should take some pictures and post them here as well.

 

First attempt! (Apparently the trick was to use a Guest Pass.)

 

Zoomed-in showing parked on single yellow - not part of the zig zag indicating a school entrance.

nEZ1gj

ZoMN3Q

 

Zoomed-out, just about showing that there are two separate school entrances, each with zig zags. Also, there is parking on the other side of the road, so I suspect that it is not a CPZ.

 

k18J56

 

k18J56

Edited by Creon
Photos didn't appear - trying typing text and overwriting this when I click on the photo button
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Use tinypic.com its simple, takes a few minutes and you dont have to waste time registering!!

 

Thanks for the advice. To be honest, all I could find on Tinipic.com was links to other websites.

 

I'll keep plugging away at flikr or keep looking for other options.

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Photo 1:

 

1212wdz.jpg

 

Seems reasonably clear to me. (With corrected coding.)

 

Crucially the yellow line between the two sets of zig-zags is placed in the conventional place for a yellow line and not at the mid-point of the zig-zag stroke, the words "school" or "children" "keep clear" have been left off and from what I can see the zig-zag stroke closest to your car is perpendicular to the kerb.

 

This all indicates that these are two sets of zig-zags not one.

Edited by Bernie_the_Bolt

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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Photo 1: (showing car parked on single yellow line)

 

1212wdz.jpg

 

Photo 2: Just about showing that there are 2 separate school entrance markings (i.e. zigzags). Also, other cars indicate that it is not a CPZ.

 

2jxhs3.jpg

 

Background: There is no sign indicating a parking restriction (as required, I think) by the single yellow line. (I wouldn't park on a yellow zigzag!)

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Your photo 2 shows what I was attempting to describe above. Park over the words and that is a contravention at signed times.

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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Share on other sites
In any event some simple photos to show the fact that you were not on a zig zag but on a SYL will show that you did not commit the alleged contravention. A simple "the contravention did not occur" challenge is all that is required.

 

It is a bit weird that legislation relates zigzags to entrances (schools, fire stations, etc), whereas the PCN does not use the work "entrance".

 

Do you think that I should also mention the lack of sign linked to the single yellow line in case their reason for issuing the PCN "Stopped in a restricted area outside a school" includes both zigzags and single yellow lines that happen to be on school roads?

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It is a bit weird that legislation relates zigzags to entrances (schools, fire stations, etc), whereas the PCN does not use the work "entrance".

 

Not sure it does but I should not worry about it here.

 

Do you think that I should also mention the lack of sign linked to the single yellow line in case their reason for issuing the PCN "Stopped in a restricted area outside a school" includes both zigzags and single yellow lines that happen to be on school roads?

 

Only if you are sure you were not in a CPZ. But in any event the contravention you have been issued a PCN for is not a SYL contravention. I would simply say that you were not stopped within the restricted area as clearly shown on the photos.

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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Your photo 2 shows what I was attempting to describe above. Park over the words and that is a contravention at signed times.

 

Are are you saying the No Stopping on Entrance Markings sign invokes a Controlled Parking Zone, which automatically includes any single yellow lines. If so, how far does the CPZ extend, because there are yellow lines either side of both the sets of zigzags too?

 

If not, just to clarify, I haven't parked over the words, yellow zig zags look like this. (Link.) i.e. each set of zigzag markings includes words with zigzags at each end. There are two sets of zigzag markings on this road, each with words in the middle. Also, the yellow line (with the words) which link the two zigzags runs along the middle of the zigzags rather than along the edge of the road. My car isn't parked on either set of zigzags - which includes the words.

 

The sign in the photo should say something like this. (Left hand immage on link.)

 

Also sub-paragraph 22(3) of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 (SI 2003/3113) states:

 

(3) The road marking shown in diagram 1017 or 1018.1 shall not be placed on a road on which is placed -

 

(a) the marking shown in diagram 1025.1, 1025.3, 1025.4 or 1028.2 (in conjunction with the sign shown in diagram 650.1); or

 

(b) the marking shown in diagram 1027.1 in conjunction with the sign shown in diagram 642.2A, unless there are times at which the restrictions to be indicated by the marking shown in diagram 1017 or 1018.1 apply and those indicated by that sign do not.

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Only if you are sure you were not in a CPZ.

 

I will have to go back and double-check for CPZs, but I do know for certain that the cars on the other side of the road are parked legally, which is why I suspect it is not a CPZ.

 

I really appreciate the time and advice that you have give on this. Thanks.

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