Unfit for purpose van, rejecting and it

[chopc]

Hi all, sorry this is a major long one!

Hi purchased a van 3 and a half months ago to sell coffee etc from it, since buying it I have had major problems ever since and still do, ive listed below.

1. The van did not have a log book supplied. I had to write to the DVLA, this took four weeks approx, and could not use the vehicle due to needing road tax and also the vehicle was registered to somebody else. The van was never assigned to me until recently. (This totalled 4weeks out of use)

2. It took approx 2weeks to go through the training on vehicle (2weeks loss) after being delivered.

3. Battery wasn’t charging and fuses repeatedly blew within the first month, where I paid for market pitches etc and would only last for 30mins. (Approx 3weeks trading and money paid for market pitches and staff).

4. Problems with brakes on several occasions, and not informed who to contact in until after event had happened but I contacted supplier re this several times before they failed. The brakes have failed completely on two occasions, one where I very nearly had a serious accident. I called recovery (My own) but brakes failed again at a later date. I took it to a garage but was informed that it had to go to a specialist garage over 20miles away, so had to call out recovery again (My own). To organise getting this to a garage took several days to organise as well as my time. (5days loss plus time in garage 4days=9days)

5. I have had problems time after time with the electrics, where the fuses blew, and on one occasion leaving me stranded for the night away from home as was unable to drive vehicle in the dark without lights. (Approx 4days loss plus needing staff to cover another unit, repeatedly changing fuses)

6. The garage reported multiple problems with the vehicle, he also made a recommendation that the shock absorbers where not strong enough for the weight of the vehicle but no stronger ones have been put onto the vehicle (Total time out of use 1week and 3days off the road completely) Some of these problems included ceased brakes cracks in the brake pipes, needing new brake pads and discs, aswell as treatment as this was causing loss of brakes completely, new radiator brackets, shock adbsorbers, door lock, new electric switches for brake lights and lights, exhaust, and more. The brake lights did not work and I didn’t realise which could have caused me to have an accident!

7. There was no service history with the vehicle, where the garage said it should have had, the supplier was tellling me it had but book was never stamped.

8. Other problems with unit: coffee machine moving whilst driving and waste pipe came off because of the movement and leaked through a hole where the pipes go through, which I believe caused water to get into an inverter which now is not working. These should not move whilst driving? supplier says I should pay 300 to get this fixed.The coffee machine ignition lighter doesn’t work to light the machine.

9. When it rains, water gets into the unit, as when you open up the sides, there is a significant amount of water contained within the unit.

10. I requested electrical and gas safety cert but was sent these for a completely different unit, and told to use these as noone would ask.

11.The agreement I have signed states that I have a new van when I have a used van, re the finance, but I signed this before delievery.

I also believe there have been other leaks

The supplier is paying for work by the garage but wanted me to really, but this just isnt good enough, i still believe there are problems with brakes but I believe this is because the weight is simply too heavy.

I have sent a letter to the leasing company and also the supplier, the supplier rang and was trying to blame me, make me feel guilty, said he had a good legal team and that I would lose, a really horrible call and said he will leave it with me??

Anyway, I have only have full use of the van for under a week or so, Its put me into financial difficulty because I became self employed to do this to earn a living and never expected my safety to be put at risk. Ive paid insurance, got the unit branding for £1000 and brought stock, I have now had to go back to work as I am in this situation.

How shall I go about claiming compensation? Any other advice appriciated, Ive contacted trading standards, etc but does anyone know what I should expect? or what outcome I should expect. This unit is £16000, and I was told an ex demo, which I don't believe, I now have the log book and chasing the original owers as I believe there is more to this!

I very frustrated, and cant believe the supplier is trying to make me feel guilty??? Ive already paid on finace over 5k

Anything appriciated.

[chopc]

Hi this post was a little delayed, but now I got the vehicle weighed and is just over the legal weight limit with no stock on. I have also recieved a letter from supplier who hasnt answered questions, who puts all the blame on me and obviously didnt mention anything to do with the rejection? what do I do? Ive written back once again and threatened legal action. What should my lease company be doing? It put such financial strain on me with nearly£800 lease per month?

[raydetinu]

need to know how you purcahsed it, HP, lease purchase? in both these the loan company owns the vehicle so you certainly be talking to them to. if illegal due to weight then it should not on the road, so reject it in writing and ask for all monies back, copy to lease co.

[chopc]

Yep its on a lease and I own it after last payment, I have been doing everything through them but they dont say anything so still dont know whats happening, but did get a phone call today and they said that the finance company are coming to collect vehicle. I can only make minimal payments as have no income because the van was the biggest part of business. Do you know how long it takes to sort out a refund? I know the supplier is dragging his feet, but really you should have seen his letter, awful, completely didnt know how to respond and it was eveident he had lame excuses. He hasnt responded to my 2nd which had facts about weight etc. He owns a multi-million company and has sold more of these vans, but also he has just gone to the approved converter and now asked them to make them for him, so obviously he knew. My insurance has refused to insure now. I just dont know how these things work but site has given me loads of info, I just need my money back as time is not on my side.

Thanks

[raydetinu]

If they collect the vehicle I would think that you could certainly stop the payments; confirm back to them when collected that you will cease payments. As when they will pay up is up to them but keep pressure on. good luck

[chopc]

Ok, need urgent help, I have had a letter back, by someone else this time so a litte better, they are attemping to wriggle out again but worded it better, they also have said they are not accepting my rejection but no grounds they just say they will resolve outstanding problems?? I am shocked as there is so much and it has got me into financial difficulty as of non use etc.They have now sent safety cert but all they say is 'van' no reg number etc, so how do I know its mine?? I really need a refund as soon as poss? What do I do now?

[Conniff]

Make a formal rejection. This 'must' be done in writing.

 

Irrespective of how the van was sold to you, the seller is bound by regulation during the first six months to prove there were no faults and there was nothing inherently wrong with it when he sold it to you. (Leasing is the same as any other sale as you own it after the last payment).

 

Gather together every scrap of paperwork you have associated with the van and then head a letter in bold 'Formal Rejection under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 and list all the faults and problems you have had and any repairs required.

 

Give them 7 days only in which to respond.

 

Send this recorded delivery or better registered to the seller and the lease company.

 

If you include anything in the letter, make sure it is only copies and you hang on to the originals.

[chopc]

Hi

Thankyou, I have done all what you have said in two letters as the first reponse was awful from supplier, I sent recorded delivery and to the lease company, have collected all evidence etc, I have formally rejected it in writing but he has formally rejected my rejection? He threatened me previously after my first letter on the phone that basically he wont back down!I am going to take it to be weighed tomo with an inspector, as I assume his weight which cant be accurate is without the water canisters diesel and a driver as these are obviously removeable and he asked me previous to take the water canisters off if I take it to a garage. I have just spoke to another customer of is and she states she is fuming, I will speak to her tomorrow, and maybe join up! So If they reject my rejection, then what?? I have made contact with a solicitor, as found one that takes on these cases on a no win no fee but awaiting a call, this is causing me to struggle to pay other debts and affecting my credit now.

[Conniff]

When weighed, if it just reaches the required limit, then this still makes the van unuseable as it is no good without the stock and tools of the trade onboard if it is then overweight.

 

Although it is for a business, did you buy it as an individual or in your company name?

 

Also, how was it advertised?

[chopc]

Well its over weight without stock by nearly 40kg, this is with a driver as this is included as its the total weight. Somehow the supplier said it was 740kg, but really cant believe how they got this unless what I stated above! I have leased through my business but garentored it personally with a family member, and its cost me greatly as this was the delivery side of business but its failed because of faults. They advertised it on web:

[/url]The Healthy Bug has arrived! Drive your business into profit with a mobile catering van.

Take smoothies and espresso based drinks to businesses, markets, fetes, beaches, festivals and theme parks.

 

I assumed that firstly it was approved safety wise and secondly I could put a reasonable amount of stock on board. They also refused to sort the shock absorber that where overloaded on van. They said that basically its all my fault. They also stated that the unit was converted by a 'competent' coachworks company with VBRA what ever that is? So they said this re where I said about not being an approved converter.It very frustrating, sorry.

[Conniff]

Is the name of the builder on the back? any company worth their salt likes to brag about their products and have a free advert running around the country.

 

If you know who built it, you can check they are bona fide builders here:

 

Vehicle Builders and Repairers Association Limited

Belmont House,

Gildersome,

Leeds, LS27 7TW

Tel 0113 253 8333

Fax 0113 238 0496email:

[email protected]

 

Once you have the official weighbridge chit, you can then send him a letter headed Letter Before Action again listing all the things and making particular point of the weight.

Your main point of rejection will be 'not fit for purpose' and 'not of satisfactory quality' (used to be not of merchantable quality).

 

Always copy any letters to the lease financing company.

 

The VBRA code of conduct could also bring the builder into this as well:

 

Vehicle Builders and Repairers Association Limited][/b]

 

Members shall acknowledge their complete responsibility for the satisfactory quality, fitness for purposes and description of the goods he sells and services he provides including under the terms of any relevant legislation applicable to the sector and his dealings with others.

 

The Member should also acknowledge his responsibility to ensure that all work is carried out in a proper and workmanlike manner to the safety and technical standards laid down by the vehicle’s original manufacturer and to comply with all current regulations.

 

The shockers seem to fall outside that last code of conduct.

Edited October 13, 2009 by Conniff

[chopc]

Fab, I will check it all out, get this independent guy to get it weighed and tested etc then I have more evidence and witnesesses. I will get this letter drawn up and send tomorrow after weighing.

The company have nothing written on vehicle, I assumed they where approved by manufacturer, but no! I dont even know the name of the convertors, they aren't disclosing this I have also asked who carried out inspection, they wont say. I know I have a good case. This van is a death trap!

[Conniff]

I think you have a very tight case, the only downfall is that it probably wont be resolved within 10 minutes and that is costing you.

 

Also why I was interested in how he advertised it is because 'The Business Protection from Misleading Marketing Regulations 2008 (BPRs) says:

 

prohibit businesses from advertising products in a way that misleads traders

 

I think he has certainly misled you.

Edited October 13, 2009 by Conniff

[chopc]

Ok, so in what regards misleading? As he has mislead me all the way along, he has had other angry customers I have heard?? I really appriciate your help, as when things began to go wrong, I assumed I had no rights until I came on here, thankgod!

[raydetinu]

are you getting it weighed at an official mot/council weighbridge, they are certified. Look up in yellow pages or on trading satandards website.

[chopc]

Oh, all of a sudden when they found out it was being taken away for checks etc, the demanded to come and collect it, and they told me to cancel the people collecting and they wanted it, they have the right to have the vehicle, seem very worried now. I am waiting for th eindependent people to come and collect, they also said their weight was without a driver, stock and wouldn't answer if it was with or without water canisters. They are desperate to get the vehicle before the people who come to inspect it. I haven't agreed, I said I wil wait until these people come who are independent, but they didnt like that. When they rang they are still refusing a rejection?? They said they will resolve all the issues, I said I dont want the vehicle and after it is insected they can discuss with lease company and arrange to collect from them? I have got official weighing at council but I would like the idependent people to get this done as they are now saying it must have been because I amended it.

[Conniff]

That is good news that they have suddenly pricked up and decided that you are not a pushover after all. Do as you say and get it officially weighed before they get their hands on it.

Don't give in to their refusal to accept rejection, as soon as you have the official weighing chit in your hands, then you will be sending them the letter before action.

And this letter will mention 'selling the vehicle in a dangerous condition'. Amending the weight and not upgrading the brakes etc; to take account of this extra weight.

 

 

they are now saying it must have been because I amended it.

 

Is that the seller saying you must have amended the vehicle??

 

What is the age of this van?

Edited October 14, 2009 by Conniff

[chopc]

Hi, thanks again,

 

Well the van is an 08 plate, and I was suppose to be an x demo vehicle. The seller/supplier said I must have amended the vehicle?? Anyway as thes people wanted the vehicle so much I told them to contact finance company, rang late today and they havent heard from them today, all a little strange. The finance company are now doing their inspection/investigation, they have the log book, and reported to me that after the heavy water canisters are off, the brakes still arn't very good. The finance company let me make a small payment this month plus they havent requested any further payments. So not sure If I have to do anything else as it seems the finance company are supporting me etc. The supplier will be ruined surely? he said he will take legal action against the 'competent' coachworks, and he wont personally take any responsibility. The last thing is, he said he thinks im rejecting it because business wasnt good, but bsuiness wasnt good because of the van, an his was 60% of business, or suppose to be. Im looking to take him to court for consequential loss and also paid nearly £2000 for branding on van, stock, insurance etc etc.

[Conniff]

What he does is up to him, he commissioned the conversion so his problem.

 

The leasing company should be on your side, it is there van and if you pull out they will have to try and get their money back or be landed with a vehicle unsaleable or for auction at a low price.

 

If the rejection completes, and I see no reason for it not to, your consequentials will be small claims track so about £30/40 costs which of course you get back on a successful claim.

 

P.S. Try not to do anything on the phone, in writing only.

[chopc]

Fab, & thankyou for all your help, Im hoping that the lease company give me a refund, but not sure they will unless they get the money from the supplier. I take it its now not my repsonsibility, and dont even have log book?

[chopc]

I went through the cert they just sent for the van,only now and firstly they dont have any vehicle details on except 'van' (could be any van?) and secondly they are only valid for twelve months and therefore should have been re tested before delivery as out of date when delievred. I have written back, but surely they cant use these if there are no vehicle details what so ever!Funny how they are panicing now, but they are just making it worse for themselves?? They will have to give in as its over weight for sure, but they have told me that they will me making modifications to resolve, but I said ive rejected it, are they stupid??

[Conniff]

No, I don't think they are stupid. I think they have realised they have been caught out this time but still want their money so are hoping you will throw in the towel.

 

Have you sent them the letter before action yet?

 

I hope you aren't talking to them on the phone. If they ring, you must tell them "All correspondence by mail please".

[chopc]

They did ring when they found out about vehicle being collected even though I requested in writing not to call me. Everything has been done in writing (recorded) Im awaiting the report from the lease companies inspection, they said its a little complicated. Should I just write it and then its done? obviously informing and copying lease company who have been great but just a little slow re gathering evidence.

[chopc]

ok its been a while but the finance company still have the van, ive sent several emails, made several phone calls and they keep phobing me off saying the inspection is next week, then I ring a wk later and they say its not been done yet, and even get short and rude. They said they are waiting for the report to be written up. I also said I want a full refund and they basically said that wouldnt be the case? I asked if they could send me a copy of inspection and they said 'it depends' on what? Shall I write the letter before action anyway? i was waiting for inspection but has been with finance company for weeks 6ish, and this could take it out of the 6mth bracket. Another interesting fact is another lady who brought a van wasnt given the right plates, then training 4mths after recieved van, and they made her sign all these documents about weight etc. Does anyone have any ideas what I should do now, now the finance company are being difficult?Can they turn around an say you have to keep it and pay for it?

any help really appriciated.