Are Cap One Attempting To Hoodwink Me With This Cca??

[exasperated]

Hi everyone,

 

Capitol one sent me this in response to my CCA request.

 

 

I have copied the accompanying letter (see image 1).

 

 

Also sent was a letter purporting to be the original CCA (see image 2) with the terms and conditions on the reverse (see image 3).

 

My signature they say was on the agreement but has been removed along with date of signature

and personal details as permitted under regulation 3 of the consumer credit act(cancelation notices and copy documents) regulations 1983??

 

Any opinions appreciated

 

LETTER IMAGE 1

 

 

 

 

 

MY AGREEMENT IMAGE 2

 

 

 

 

 

OVERLEAF FROM THE PAGE ABOVE....

 

[cerberusalert]

I'd be tempted to send them Scots letter below & see what their response is;

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. The items you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. It neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until XX/XX/2008 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

 

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

Print name do not sign

 

**amend to suit your circumstances.**

[exasperated]

Hi Cerb,

Thanks again, Scots letter printed and ready to send Monday.

What do you think of this what cap 1 have sent, have you seen it before?

Regards

Exasp

[exasperated]

Hello,

 

I SAR'd Cap 1 a few weeks ago as they had not sent me a suitable reply to my CCA request.

 

 

They have now sent an application form along with a letter containing amongst other things

like refusing to stop processing data and this... I quote

 

 

'You clearly have a valid and enforceable agreement with Capitol one as evidenced by these documents

and any claim to the contrary will be rigoursly defended' end of quote.

 

As I see it, it is an application form with no perscribed terms and therefore unenforceable, any thoughts...

 

 

[cerberusalert]

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for you to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Print name do not sign

[exasperated]

Hello,

Cap 1 have become very aggressive in trying to collect this debt

despite not having an enforceable agreement.

 

 

They continue to demand the full outstanding amount which I cannot pay.

They have used variuos DCA to collect, the last and current one is Capquest.

 

 

They have informed me that they are appointing an agency for door step visits.

 

I have informed Capquest that I will not correrspond with them as the account is in dispute.

 

 

However I also need to inform them that they can only visit my premises by invitation only which obviously I do not give.

 

Would you send the template letter re door step visits and if so can you point me to where I can find it.

 

Lastly below please find the latest correspondence from Cap 1 and if anyone has suggestions to respond to them I would be grateful

 

 

 

[cerberusalert]

The templates are here; The Consumer Forums - Debt collectors

 

Ignore Crap1 & any more missives from debt collectors send them letter # 17 in the link above.

[exasperated]

Ok Cerb,

Wil do, thanks for the help again.

[exasperated]

Hi

Happy christmas.

 

Lowells say they have bought this debt,

I requested a CCA and they originally sent me a letter back saying Cap 1 did not have it and they were removing me from their files.

 

Today I received the above application form Cap 1 originally sent me with a demand for payment.

 

 

A couple of things I could do with someones help with as follows;

 

1) I have not received a notice of assignment from Lowells do I need to request it.

2) Do I send them the letter in post 17 or something different

3) This debt may be statute barred as it is around 6 years since I paid on it how do I find that out.

 

Many thanks

[exasperated]

Hello again

 

I have had a reply to my SAR of lowells and it isnt on Cap 1 paper

but they reckon I made a payment in Septemeber 2009

which was a random payment of £5

the one previous to that was july so its not statute barred until this that time this year.

 

Does anyone think the letter the great cerb supplied in post 5 should be sent?

Thanks

[citizenB]

exasperated, no, the letter in post # 5 is now so out of date with all the changes in regulations and regulators.

 

You need to establish how that mystery £5.00 has been paid. Cash in bank - cheque - debit card, etc. If at the counter, then you require sight of the bank slip - date - time and signature, etc, etc.

 

Was it a transfer to the account by the company.. error in interest, etc.. if this is the case, then you have not made any payment.

 

It has not been unknown for phantom payments to be made in order to keep an account alive.

 

If it was made, then they know exactly how and they should provide proof that it was you personally who made it.

[exasperated]

Hi CB

Happy new year!!

Could I trouble you to offer advice on a letter to lowells and a link to it?

Thanks

[exasperated]

Hello

Further correspondence this morning stating the next stage will be legal action, I know that what they supplied me with for the CCA request I sent them is an application form, however IND have just got a CCJ on me with the same peice of rubbish. Therefore I want to head this off and I cant find a template for 'mere application form' letter with up to date regulations.

Your help would be appreciated.

[exasperated]

bump

[exasperated]

Been reading through the cap 1 threads and everyone seems to have different versions of the t&c's. Mine are V3 but they did not form part of or were with the application form when I forwarded it in 1999.

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi exasperated,

 

 

When did you open the Capital One account?

 

 

DD

[exasperated]

hi DD

The application form they sent me in response to

my Cca request is dated April 1999. According to

My SAR the account was opened a month later.

Thanks for looking at my thread

[Desperate Daniella]

I'm always happy to help on CapOne threads.

 

 

The T&Cs Capone said were on the back of the application form could not have been there and you can prove it.

 

 

I'll come back to you shortly with a letter.

 

 

DD

[exasperated]

Thanks DD

Apreciate it

[renegadeimp]

So lowells are claiming you made a payment of a fiver in 2009 hmm? Funny. They say that to pretty much everyone with a SB account, or an account that is unenforceable in some way.

[exasperated]

Hi R

Exactly!! What is strange though is the amount of caggers who have heard nothing for years and now are being chased by lowell.The CAP1 thread seems to be on fire at the minute, maybe they need to chase some bad debt to cover all the other bad debt they have bought

Regards

[exasperated]

What are your thoughts on the application form posted earlier in the thread that they sent me in response to my CCA request?

[exasperated]

DD

Any thoughts on the letter I should forward Lowell?

I was going to send Cerbs letter but CB says its out of date

Regards

[AndyOrch]

Once a CCA request has been made and complied with or not ...no further correspondence should be entered into...the mere fact that you have requested it is the whole reason for making said request which puts the creditor on notice and guard that you know your rights....don't then dilute it by then entering in letter tennis.

 

Andy

[exasperated]

Ok Andy,

The success IND had over me recently with the same rubbish these guys have got for a CCA has made me nervous.

Ive noted your comments and will ignore until they litigate

Thanks