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In court Nov,09 with capquest is this a perscibed CCA


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Hi

already run this on another thread on another forum but need some more help, the story in short is my alledged Halifax debt was bought by Capquest, before i would deal with them I asked for some proof they owned the debt, they supplied nothing but a letter on there headed paper that they said they sent in July 08 saying they had bought the debt, so i sent a sar to Halifax and Capquest, this provided a CCA which says aplication and no assignment notice from halifax, capquest then issued a county court summons , we were listed for a hearing in November,09 but they applied for summary judgement on the grounds my defence that no cca exists was flawed, the judge dissmissed there application on the grounds that the cca did not have any perscribed terms and gave me cost's, the matter is still listed for trail in Nov,09 , now Capquest have produced a additional doc , that they say contains the perscribed terms , my question is simply does the fact that all the perscribed terms are on a seperate 4 sheets that do not have my sig on or any dates and no account numbers(i have never seen these in my befor) now make the agrement enforcable and give me a problem in Nov at trail, have added the CCA and first page of sheet that was supplied only this week, also just to say ,these latest sheets did not get produced under the SAR's sent before to Halifax or Capquest, also Capquest wrote this week to say they would settle for half the amount this week as a goodwill gesture.thanks...http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/sellyservice/halifaxcardapp.jpg.....http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/sellyservice/cca2.jpg

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I think the Judge has handed you this on a plate.

 

No Prescribed Terms...

"APPLICATION FORM" is a bit of a give-away too.

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Thanks both, the only worring thing is the judge did say at the last hearing when he dismissed there summary judgement aplication(3 weeks ago), that he might have been minded to give them judgement if they could supply the other sheets , but they only supplied them this week, I was surpised by this comment because I was sure they should all be on the Signature sheet, we have no proof that these latest doc's even apply to the account or what date they were even produced.

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The prescribed Terms should be on the Credit Agreement,

not a separate document! This should be pointed out..

If my post was helpful don't forget to click the star!

Advice is offered freely, without liability and without prejudice.

If in any doubt professional legal advice should be sought.

 

I do not profess to be in any way legally trained, I am a big

oily truck driver and all I know has been learned within the

Consumer Action Group.

 

FAQ's

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

 

Trying to stop smoking?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/give-up-smoking-here/

 

A dummies guide to the forums

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yeh try a brick, I had a application form for a so called agreement no terms blah blah blah.

The DJ said he thought it was a agreement in his eyes so be careful it really is up to the DJ on the day.

Im back in court in a week or so after a adjourment. I will let you know how I get on.

 

Notts

As a great man once said " All Men Can Fly But Some Only in One Direction"

 

Notts

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Hi

already run this on another thread on another forum but need some more help, the story in short is my alledged Halifax debt was bought by Capquest, before i would deal with them I asked for some proof they owned the debt, they supplied nothing but a letter on there headed paper that they said they sent in July 08 saying they had bought the debt, so i sent a sar to Halifax and Capquest, this provided a CCA which says aplication and no assignment notice from halifax, capquest then issued a county court summons , we were listed for a hearing in November,09 but they applied for summary judgement on the grounds my defence that no cca exists was flawed, the judge dissmissed there application on the grounds that the cca did not have any perscribed terms and gave me cost's, the matter is still listed for trail in Nov,09 , now Capquest have produced a additional doc , that they say contains the perscribed terms , my question is simply does the fact that all the perscribed terms are on a seperate 4 sheets that do not have my sig on or any dates and no account numbers(i have never seen these in my befor) now make the agrement enforcable and give me a problem in Nov at trail, have added the CCA and first page of sheet that was supplied only this week, also just to say ,these latest sheets did not get produced under the SAR's sent before to Halifax or Capquest, also Capquest wrote this week to say they would settle for half the amount this week as a goodwill gesture.thanks...http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/sellyservice/halifaxcardapp.jpg.....http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/sellyservice/cca2.jpg

 

I want to my situation to go to court, Capquest are really trying it with me too! I had a student Halifax account! They sent me an application form, saying here is your requested docements. I wrote back saying this is an application form! They wrote back saying when can I pay the outstanding Halifax balance! My account was made up of mostly charges!

 

I want to go to court- how did you? Please advise me! )

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Can you post up the other pages of the T&Cs? Would love to have a closer look. Never seen T&Cs like this before, specifically tailored to a single person. They're clearly not part of the application form - but it would be useful to see if they're are any cross references or other problems we can pick holes in.

 

I love the way these people always manage to put a stamp or bar code over the crucial bits. Not that I'm suggesting it's deliberate...

 

At the top right of the application form, under the 'LEGAL RECEIVED' stamp, they've obscured a bit which refers to T&Cs and where they are. Can you make these out on your copy, and post up what it says?

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Hi Selly

 

No terms just a application form which it clearly states at the top of the page.

The trouble is that once these things get to court you are in the hands of the Judge, and like most proffessions in life there are good and bad. You may be lucky and get a Judge that knows consumer law.

 

Good Luck

 

Notts

As a great man once said " All Men Can Fly But Some Only in One Direction"

 

Notts

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At the top right of the application form, under the 'LEGAL RECEIVED' stamp, they've obscured a bit which refers to T&Cs and where they are. Can you make these out on your copy, and post up what it says?

 

If it helps Donkey it says

 

"Attached to this application form you will find important information about your account. Some of the information is repeated in the Halifax Credit Card Conditions, You will find a copy of these conditions in your Halifax Credit Card Application Pack"

 

I got very good eyes LOL

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Wilson & Anor v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299 (04 April 2007)

 

Wilson v Hurstanger

Its in Para 11.. must be contained within the same document...( Not on the same page) however this cant be in another doc such as T&Cs which is they way they will probably go.

 

Been in court on this very issue and won where they tried to say they PT were in the T&Cs that were given to me with the application.

 

Back this up with

 

Wilson & Ors v. Secretary of State for Trade and Industry [2003] UKHL 40 (10 July 2003)

Wilson V FCT

Para 72 has a nice quote about if the agreement isn't properly executed then its to be seen as a windfall

 

And last but not least

 

Dimond v. Lovell [2000] UKHL 27; [2000] 2 All ER 897; [2000] 2 WLR 1121 (11th May, 2000)

Dimond V Lovell

No 5 Unjust enrichment

 

Where Lord Hoffman says that if its not properly executed then you shouldn't have to pay.

 

I won using these legal argument but you need to be firm and strong don't deny the debt just their right to enforce through the court

Live Life-Debt Free

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Sounds like the application form itself confirms that the T&Cs are nowhere in sight then! That's good, as B3rty confirms.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Hi

thanks all, had a look at the links B3rty really usefull, will use them, the agent in the last hearing for summary judgement when CQ lost tried to pop in the Rankine case and using it to say they don,t even need to provide a CCA anymore.

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I want to my situation to go to court, Capquest are really trying it with me too! I had a student Halifax account! They sent me an application form, saying here is your requested docements. I wrote back saying this is an application form! They wrote back saying when can I pay the outstanding Halifax balance! My account was made up of mostly charges!

 

I want to go to court- how did you? Please advise me! )

 

I had a student overdraft account, but these are not covered by CCA!!!!

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they don,t even need to provide a CCA anymore.

 

They don't. The Consumer Credit Act 2006 allows a Judge to consider

a transaction/payment history as proof that an agreement exists and is

enforceable. However, the new regulations are not retrospective on the

1974 Act, which IMHO is where a lot of confusion exists.

If my post was helpful don't forget to click the star!

Advice is offered freely, without liability and without prejudice.

If in any doubt professional legal advice should be sought.

 

I do not profess to be in any way legally trained, I am a big

oily truck driver and all I know has been learned within the

Consumer Action Group.

 

FAQ's

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

 

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What does it matter? No Prescribed Terms on the Credit Agreement...

 

The T's & C's are a separate requirement...?

Edited by diskmandave

If my post was helpful don't forget to click the star!

Advice is offered freely, without liability and without prejudice.

If in any doubt professional legal advice should be sought.

 

I do not profess to be in any way legally trained, I am a big

oily truck driver and all I know has been learned within the

Consumer Action Group.

 

FAQ's

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

 

Trying to stop smoking?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/give-up-smoking-here/

 

A dummies guide to the forums

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

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Belt and braces, Dave! As PT taught me, there's often more in the T&Cs that can protect you than you think!

 

These T&Cs are very unlikely to be even a true copy of those issued at the time. Looks like a hastily drawn-up Word document. The so-called 'cancellation form' breaks between pages 6 and 7 - that just wouldn't have happened in real life. I believe they've knocked these off from a contemporaneous document to fit their requirements.

 

If they're saying this is a true copy of what they sent you, and claiming that with the application form it forms a contract, then their whistling in the wind.

 

On the first page, it says 'parties to this agreement' - was there a date anywhere on the bits you've blanked out? There is no reference to any other part of a total 'agreement', such as the application form. The waffle on the application form is highly ambiguous in referring to 'other documents'. Also, if this were a contract specially drawn up for you, they would have known the initial credit limit and should have referred to it. It's full of holes.

 

Sorry to be a pedant, but these ar*ewipes will try anything to swing a case.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Hi donkey

the only thing I,ve blanked out is my name and address, also it has to be asked why this document never got produced 3 months ago when I sent a SAR request to Halifax and CQ, should it have not been produced all this under the SAR rules,if it excisted then?, my only worry in Nov when it goes back to courtl is that the DJ might just buy there Cr**, do you know if the charges are correct for 2002 ,when it should have been issued, would help if I could prove the TC's were produced later..thanks all

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Well, I think it didn't appear in a CCA or SAR because they hadn't 'recreated' it with your name on then.

 

Those charges look about right for the period. I'm sure this is a version of what would have been issued around then, but my suspicions are aroused by the fact that it has your name on it (but is not dated) and it is clearly a recreation - how could you send a 'cancellation form' back that falls across two pages?

 

I know Diskman and others will think it odd going down this line, but you're right - judges do fall for this, even when there's a primary case for making it unenforceable. We need to trawl the forums or make an appeal for some genuine T&Cs from this period.

 

But there's no way those T&Cs were attached to that application form, whic is what they claim. The app form states:

 

"Attached to this application form you will find important information about your account. Some of the information is repeated in the Halifax Credit Card Conditions. You will find a copy of these conditions in your Halifax Credit Card Application Pack"

 

So they are suggesting that these were the T&Cs in your application pack? What, with your name already filled in? If it wasn't a completely pre-prepared pack, with app form prefilled, then I don't think so...

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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