I just don't believe it!!!!!

[Fluffystuff]

:mad::mad::mad:

 

I cannot describe how angry I am - I will try to keep it brief.

 

We have recently had to sell a commercial property we owned in order to satisfy a personal guarantee we had given Lloyds for our Ltd. Co. debt.

The sale price agreed did not fully cover the total amount outstanding (i.e. mortgage plus amount owed by Ltd Co. ) but we reached (or so we thought ) an agreement with their securities department that they would accept the net sale price ( net = after deducting estate agent and legal fees).

The sale was completed at the end of August but have just received statement of the mortgage account and discovered that funds were not transferred until some two weeks after they were in receipt of the funds and of course they have applied interest up until that date.

Best of all though, they did not transfer enough of the sale proceeds to satisfy the mortgage debt and have simply helped themselves to the difference from another account we have which just contained the VAT element of the sale proceeds, placed there by our solicitor.!!!!!!!!

 

It appears that what the b...'s have done is to repay all the Ltd Co's debt first leaving a shortfall on the mortgage and in doing so have completely dis-regarded the agreement made between us. Yes, we have this in writing and have informed our solicitor of the situation. We know they were legally obliged to repay the mortgage first before any other charges secured on the property but they have chosen to ignore this.:mad:

 

Spoke to account manager at branch, he denies all knowledge of arrangement with securities dept - don't they communicate?????

 

So letter being d'xd by our solicitor as I write requesting prompt return of funds etc. etc. They flippin well better do it as I have a VAT return due at the end of the month.

 

Sorry, can you tell I'm angry?!

[Fluffystuff]

Just to update:

 

Man at securities dept denies making any arrangement and insists we (including our solicitor) have mis-understood what he said and what he has written and we did still owe them some money which is why the transfer took place. :eek::eek:

 

Man at branch says I gave his colleague verbal authority to transfer the

monies - did I heck!!!! :-o:-o:-o

 

Looks like we have a fight on our hands as well as a looming VAT bill.

 

Opinions would be gratefully received.

 

Perhaps this needs to be moved to the Lloyds or Legal forums?

[Fluffystuff]

So.........................., had meeting with account manager at branch this morning who very kindly offered us a loan to pay the VAT bill !!!!!!:shock:

 

Says that because I enquired as to why the mortgage account had not been repaid at the point of sale, that that was authority enough for them to close the account and make the transfer!

 

Has basically closed ranks with the man at securities dept however, he did concede that if he were not a bank employee he would have read the information as we had !

 

Have meeting with solicitor tomorrow, lets see what he has to say but meanwhile, would very much welcome any further advice/comments from the experts on here.

[car2403]

Sounds complicated

 

Moved to General Debt Issues, as it's clearly no longer secured, though.

[JonCris]

Whilst they can argue 'change of position' I think you have good case against the bank for breach of contract etc but I suggest you don't seek alternative advice until your solicitor has had a real opportunity to have a go at them.............& their claiming the solicitor didn't understand isn't a good start for them

 

'if he hadn't of been a bank employee he would have had a different understanding' WOT! they speak differently do they.

 

Suggest you send them a SAR NOW

[Fluffystuff]

Thanks Car for moving the thread and JonChris, thanks for your comments.

 

They allege that our solicitor's request for written confirmation that they would accept the net sale price in order to satisfy their charge,did not specifically ask them to confirm a 'full & final' ?!

Their response to that letter was ,quote: " I confirm that on receipt of the net proceeds of a sale at £****k, I will release the charge."

 

As their charge encompassed the mortgage and the debts of the Ltd Co, how would you have understood this response, bearing in mind, there had been verbal discussion beforehand.

 

Will update after solicitor's meeting tomorrow.

[Fluffystuff]

Just had a thought re. this comment -

 

"Says that because I enquired as to why the mortgage account had not been repaid at the point of sale, that that was authority enough for them to close the account and make the transfer!"

Do you think that if I telephoned them to ask why there wasn't a milllion pounds in my current account that they'd transfer it in from elsewhere?

 

Probably say it doesn't work that way round!

 

Sorry,just being facetious.

[Fluffystuff]

Just back from solicitor. Short and sweet, bank doesn't have a leg to stand on , but it probably won't be easy to get them to admit fault.

 

Meanwhile, they've still got the Vat man's money!!!!

[JonCris]

Good fluffy I suppose your solicitor will be telling the bank (in writing) that they will be held liable for any fines, costs, losses and damages incurred as a result of their unconscionable behaviour

[Fluffystuff]

Hi JonChris,

 

I'm sure he most certainly will - didn't take too kindly when I relayed their comments about his ability to understand their letters and had a good old laugh over their offer of a loan to pay the Vat man!!

 

Just hope we're not in for too bumpy a ride.

 

Thanks for your interest.

[Fluffystuff]

"just hope we're not in for a bumpy ride".

 

Famous last words I'm afraid!

 

So here we are, two & a half years later, no further forward. Just wanted a few opinions as to wether this is worth pursuing.

 

To update:

 

Lloyds refuse to admit any wrong, deny that any agreement had been made and won't remove the charge on our home even though we owe them nothing!

After much letter writing we finally took them to court in March last year and obtained an order forcing them to disclose all info they had. In short, they have sworn an affidavit stating they have nothing in writing to prove their stance, but equally, aside from the letter mentioned in posts above and a sworn statement from the person who acted on our behalf to agree the settlement , neither do we. Is that enough? Their solicitors did offer to remove the charge if we

agreed not to pursue the case. Rightly or wrongly, we declined and things have been left in limbo since as it was just taking over our lives to the

point of illness.

 

We are in two minds over this, part of us wants to just leave it and move on but it continues to invade our lives from time to time and we think if theres a chance we still have a case, why should they be allowed to get away with it!

 

Thanks for reading.

[Annette1973]

If it were me, I would not give up. You have right on your side, and I know that does not mean you necessarily would win, but why let them just get away with it? If they have an affidavit that states they have nothing to prove their stance, you can also swear an affidavit regarding your position. I know these things are stressful, but I say do not give in, you go for it

[assisted blonde]

At the end of the day it depends on whether you want to or can afford to keep at it with the possibility that if you dont win you would have to pay the banks costs. The bank are wrong but it isnt an easy thing to proove, in some ways I would be inclined to accept the offer to remove the charge (but only once verything is in writing very clearly) and move on, after all this time it is vurtually stalemate and do you need the hassle.

[Fluffystuff]

Thanks both for your thoughts. Cost of pursuing this is an issue - have we left it too late to refer to FOS. Would it even be worth it?

 

(Just to add, the sum involved is not a few hundred but several thousand! :-/ )

[Gaston Grimsdyke]

This is a "your word against mine" situation and one that is impossible to call because it will just boil down to who the judge believes on the day of the trial, which is a total lottery. You need to do a deal, and so does the bank.

[Fluffystuff]

You make a very valid point Gaston Grimsdyke, but there are two issues really.

 

1. Do we have enough evidence to prove that a settlement was agreed?

 

2. If there was no settlement agreed then was the bank entitled to take funds from another account to repay the mortgage on the property? Let's not forget that the only funds in this account was the VAT element on the sale of the property. What would have happened if those funds weren't t there?

[Fluffystuff]

Update:

 

The matter is now with the FOS and we await their adjudication.

 

Meanwhile though, we are still receiving all sorts of threats from Drydensfairfax re. the unpaid vat. Have asked for their patience while the FOS investigate what is, I assume, an unusual and serious case. i.e.misappropriation of funds by the bank.