Lloyds secured loan, Claim for possession.

[nunnyrose]

Thanks Jansus

- actually it does help just to know there are people here that offer the support.

It may not improve the situations we find ourselves in but until I found this sight I felt I was totally alone, and so ashamed of how bad my finances have become. Reading the forums has given me the strength to battle on.

 

And on a positive note, my solicitor phone me 8pm last night to confirm that he had spoken to his contact at cartells (still not sure who they are) and they will take my case on.

Solicitor is coming to me on monday to go through all my paperwork.

[Markiemark1]

Sounds to me like the "solicitor" may well be from Cartell Credit Management so this could be difficult - they do a lot of work on unenforceable credit agreements etc.

 

I believe that your mortgage may be an "all monies charge", i.e. the loan to the business is simply secured on the property and as such it is not as simple as paying off arrears over the remaining term. The bank are entitled to make formal demand for the whole balance, and if not forthcoming they can seek possession of the property. The Court has no discretion in this.

 

Is the house in joint names? Were both parties involved in the business? Was there any undue influence in getting the agreement signed.

 

HTH

[nunnyrose]

The house is in joint names but my OH agreed to the security.

Not sure what you mean by "any undue influence"

 

when arranging the loan I was reluctant to put house up as security but was told by my bank manager who was arranging the loan that even with my existing debt to the bank they could take the house if it all went belly up, so security didn't make a lot of difference.

How dumb do I feel now !

[nunnyrose]

I believe that your mortgage may be an "all monies charge", i.e. the loan to the business is simply secured on the property and as such it is not as simple as paying off arrears over the remaining term. The bank are entitled to make formal demand for the whole balance, and if not forthcoming they can seek possession of the property. The Court has no discretion in this.

 

 

You are right. Just been speaking to solicitor who has confirmed the above, so Iwe are doomed - sorry if that sounds dramatic.

Solicitor thinks we will have 2 weeks to pay in full, at the best 56 days, so I guess we have to give up and start packing.

 

I just can't believe this is happening.

[jansus]

Ahh the dreaded all monies clause .

 

Would make a difference - is this the first time you were made aware of this?

[nunnyrose]

yes officially I found out today, Markie's comment above made me wonder but as I'd handed it over to the solicitor I had a glimmer of hope.

[jansus]

We had a case on another forum with an all monies clause and in the end he did manage to avoid possession. I have seen Ell-enn comment that it is not really relevant when it goes to court. So dont give up yet.

[nunnyrose]

Was that forum here Jansus ?

 

so many ups and downs ... having resigned ourselves last night to losing it all, even talking ourselves into it being a positive thing as it would mean a fresh start...

 

this morning our solicitor has called to say he's been talking to banks solicitors.

They don't want the house as they've had it valued without our knowledge(?) and the equity wont cover the loan so want to try and sort out a payment plan.

 

They will still go for the possession order but will agree to suspended if we can reach an agreement.

My head hurts! no sleep last night.

[Ell-enn]

Hi. OK - let's look at this positively. You obviously need to make an offer of payment, so you need to work out what you can reasonably affiord to pay each month. I have affixed the budget sheet we normally use so you can work out your income and expenditure.

 

Do you need help with writing a defence statement for court? or is your solicitor going to represent you?

[nunnyrose]

Hi Ell-enn

can't see affixed budget sheet? not sure that we need it as we have filled in several I&E 's over the past 3 weeks for CAB, solicitors and local council.

 

Also not sure about the defence statement for court.

If the bank are going to agree with payment then as post 42 above.

If they dont agree then there wont be a suspended possession so what defence statement could I give as there is little point.

 

I would love to be able to say I stand corrected and maybe I'm not understanding?

I really appreciate your in put here Ell-enn and value your advice.

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, if there is a court hearing to "rubber stamp" your agreed payment arrangement, it's best to let the court have the details of what you offered (and they accepted), just in case the lender's reps turns up at court with a different tale ! and no matter what they say about you not needing to go to the hearing - make sure you do attend so you are aware of everything that is being said.

[jansus]

They probably did what is called a "drive by valuation"

 

I think Ell-enn is correct it will be worth doing one of her budget sheets to double check you are only offering what you can afford - because once they have a suspended possession order they will be able to move quickly if you default.

 

Is there anything you feel they could offer you to help the situation that they have not done so far?

 

How do you feel you could manage if you kept the house and had to make current payments plus a small amount towards the arrears?

 

How much do you want to keep the house in the hope your situation will improve and house prices may increase?

[nunnyrose]

Thanks Ell-enn.

update...

solicitor has put offer to them, they have come back with a higher figure.

It will be tight as we are both self employed and have worked out our figures on minimum incomes.

 

My thinking is that we have to agree, else lose the house immediately.

I understand that if we miss a months payment we will be back to square 1, probably without another chance. BUT, bearing in mind I have bank charges to claim back and the smaller loan with ppi, will I still being able to proceed with these claims at a later date. I feel I need to play ball at this stage.

 

Our intention is to attend the hearing regardless.

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, sorry - the budget sheet didn't attach to the previous post, it's here now if you need it.

 

Glad you're attending the hearing is your solicitor attending? if not it would be a good idea to take a statement with you. You need to get their acceptance of the payment arrangement in writing too.

 

Let me know if you need help with anything.

 

Ell

Budget Sheet.xls

[nunnyrose]

thanks for that Ell

I know it sounds daft but we dont know if the solicitor is attending too.

yesterday he was saying no, but if we can get this arranged hopefully yes.

 

We will put a statement together just in case, although we will ask tomorrow for the acceptance in writing before the hearing.

 

Jan -

"Is there anything you feel they could offer you to help the situation that they have not done so far?"

 

Dont think I'm in a position to ask for any help because of the type of agreement it is

- they've got us by the short and curly's,

 

same goes with arrears,

technically there is no arrears as it's "All monies" funny thing is they accept that there has been a break down of communication,(they say from both sides, though in my head I quietly dispute this) and they want to draw a line under that and start again as of now.

 

We know that in time we will have to sell the house, but for the time being we just want the kids to have a roof over their heads, once they move on we can down size.

 

I'm kicking myself today,

yesterday it all seemed so pointless, and a lost cause, convinced we would soon be homeless.

A friend came to visit and was telling me her money problems and as I didn't think any money I had could save my situation I gave her everything I earned last week telling her that I would not allow her to get into the same problems I was facing.

 

My mother always told me not to make rash decisions when you're having a bad day - I hate it when she's right!

[jansus]

thats a shame - but lets hope that your kind act will be rewarded in that at least you will be able to keep your house.What goes around comes around is one of my dads sayings:)

 

Please remember try not to be bullied into paying more than you can afford. If you have agood week you can always pay extra - but you must be able to pay what you can afford.

 

It is always in your interest to repay the arrears quicker if you can because of the interest you are being charged - but if all possible you need to keep that within your control.

[Desperate Daniella]

Just came on here to offer support, nunnyrose.

 

Saw your post about giving your money to your friend. You wonderful thing. You really deserve to keep your house.

 

DDxx

[nunnyrose]

Latest update.

as I said above the bank dont want the house because of the equity situation.

We have put our offer to the lender, who came back with a higher figure which we have agreed to.

 

Our solicitor is concerned that it will be subject to an annual review meaning the bank may terminate at some point in the future - so when the house goes up in price they can secure a sale.

 

And because the possession order that will be in place as of the court hearing we probably wouldn't be able to prevent this.

 

Our solicitor will not be with us at the hearing, but says " If the court is reluctant to include a provision within the order that enforcement of the same is subject to further Court Permission, you may wish to seek an adjournment to enable me to negotiate the same."

 

I'm not quite sure what this means, or what I'm supposed to do :?

Just gonna try and get my head around this and will then post again

[Ell-enn]

Has the solicitor written a statement for you to take to court? If not we can help you with that

[nunnyrose]

Not as such Ell, he's given us pointers but I feel I need a script to work to

what info would you need to help with the statement?

I'm flitting in and out of the forums today - estate agents here as we're trying to get a few valuations.

[Ell-enn]

I'll get back to you this evening

[nunnyrose]

today was d day.

we thought today was just a case of "rubber stamping" the above. The claimants would get their possession order, and would be able to enforce it with 14 days notice at any time, but wouldn't providing we kept to the payment arrangement.

 

However, it seems the judge was on our side and decided the bank wanted it all ways and as such we would have no protection so granted a 28 days suspension order.

We've come home completely bewildered.

[jansus]

so do you mean that they have a suspended order but at any time if you default they must give you 28 days notice - which would give you time for an appeal or find alternative accomodation?

 

How was the hearing?

[nunnyrose]

Hi Jan, not sure. waiting to hear from the court.

 

it was all very confusing,

firstly I was expecting it to be in a side room but no, it was in the big court room, very intimidating.

 

before we went in the barrister for the claimant spoke to us to verify what the proceedings would be.

 

That the possession order would be granted and we would have 14 days to pay in full or be evicted, but because of the payment arrangement made with the bank last week the bank would not evict at the moment

- they wanted to review the arrangement at 12 monthly intervals (unless we default before that) this meant we had no protection should the bank decide to send in the bailiff at anytime.

 

We felt are only option was to comply else the bank would not agree to the arrangement, and this was confirmed by the barrister before the hearing.

 

We then went in to court, the barrister spoke to the judge re the possession order and also told him about the payment arrangement,

 

the judge said that as there is an acceptable arrangement for both sides the possession order was not necessary and therefore would grant a suspended possession order.

 

The barrister argued that because of the "all monies charge" it was out of the courts jurisdiction and the possession order should be granted.

 

The judge disagreed, saying that because of the acceptable arrangement it became within his jurisdiction and that we needed the protection of the court

- he actually said the bank cant have it all ways. end of story.

 

we came out feeling yay! but also confused.

The barrister was also bewildered, and said the judge couldn't make that decision.

He told us that the bank would appeal, which would be more expense added to the debt. and would prob. withdraw the arrangement.

 

we needed to ask permission to go back into the court, which he did

15 mins later we went back in. T

 

his time the judge got a little annoyed that the barrister was questioning him, pointed out that if we were not happy with his decision we could hand the house keys over.

 

The Barrister mentioned something about an appeal but the judge told him there would be little point, he also asked for it to be set a side and again the judge said little point, suggested it could be done but would not be looked at favourably.

 

He was a great judge, obviously on our side - and sure enough, when we came out again the barrister confirmed that we are safe unless we default in which case it will go back to court.

 

Our solicitor, who did not attend has advised us this pm that an appeal would have to be through crown court and it is very unlikely that the bank would want that route.

You feeling as confused as me now ? lol

[Ell-enn]

That's brilliant news - what a great judge ! Provided you keep to the arrangement you will be ok.

 

P.S . sorry I didn't get back to you on Friday - I had problems with my laptop.