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    • The firm I used to assist me with the initial defense was private parking appeals. Their site is no longer reachable. Perhaps they have stopped trading or closed the company.    To be fair they did help me with my defence which I submitted but I dont know what happened. Maybe because of the pandemic they stopped trading
    • On examining the Judgement there are a few things which occur to me. The Master seemed to have a problem reconciling the original act (see under)with the amendments and regulations made in 2013   14(1)An enforcement agent may enter relevant premises to search for and take control of goods. (2)Where there are different relevant premises this paragraph authorises entry to each of them. (3)This paragraph authorises repeated entry to the same premises, subject to any restriction in regulations. (4)If the enforcement agent is acting under section 72(1) (CRAR), the only relevant premises are the demised . premises. With that of the sections later amended in 2013 and Regulations in the TCoG regs of the same date. These give instruction on how entry can be made .  The language  of the original act reflects the  intention to use force. So when it says"14(1)An enforcement agent may enter relevant premises to search for and take control of goods." it is an unqualified instruction , in that regard.  In my view the original language of part 14 should also have been amended when the regulations came into use, but were not. As pointed out by the Master, with reference to Mr Benyons observations, the word , May is used in the part rather than must, which could be applicable here, however, I think that this was more in consideration of settlement prior to the intended visit. I dont think virtual anything as available when the act was drafted.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
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Lloyds secured loan, Claim for possession.


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Hi, I am hoping somebody can give me advice on a secured loan

- it's a long story, and complicated but I will try to be brief as possible.

 

I have been a sole trader (small business) for 10 years and have banked with Lloyds for 30 years for both personnel and business accounts.

 

approx 6 years ago I had a business loan for 30k - unsecured with PPI, I was told that I had to have the insurance or I would not get the loan.

 

After the loan had been running for a couple of years I was finding things a bit tough so enquired about cancelling the insurance, thinking it would reduce my monthly payments. My bank manager said no problem and told me the insurance would be cancelled. However my monthly payments did not reduce but all applied to the loan so I would be paying it off quicker.

 

At the end of 2005 I needed to relocate my business, I had got into financial difficulties.

The bank were very aware of my problems and contributed to them by adding their charges for returned DD's and cheques.

 

I was advised by the bank to take a 60K secured loan to reconcile the older loan, the business overdraft and a few other debts.

I agreed (but refused the PPI) . It transpired at this time that the insurance on the original loan had never been put in place, so although I had been paying for it each month there had been a huge clerical error.

 

The only way they could deal with this was to set up the insurance again, sent out the acceptance forms and for me to cancel within 14 days. I did this and all the money I had paid was credited to my account. I requested that the interest I had paid also be returned but was refused.

 

I was dubious but went ahead in 2006 with the 60K secured on my home.

Also at this time my car blew up and the bank gave me another loan of 5K for a new car.

 

I down sized my business, moved to smaller premises but my business continued to struggle.

I had several meetings with various different new bank managers, asking them if the loan could be restructured as I couldn't afford the £650 monthly payment but every time was told there was nothing they could do.

 

Eventually about 18 months ago I stopped servicing the loan, I started a DMP with Abacus and this has been servicing the car loan, my business overdraft and some credit card debts. I stopped using Lloyds, sat back and waited to hear from them.

Heard nothing, no letters, no telephone calls nothing.

 

In August 08 I got a call from my bank manager asking if I was still trading ("yes") and an appointment was made to discuss my account. The appointment was then cancelled as my bank manager was on long term sick leave.

Eventually another appointment was made in October last year.

 

We met, I refused to discuss anything with them other than the secured loan, gave them an income and expenditure break down and offered them a payment of £250 a month which they refused.

 

Heard nothing more until the end of December, a formal demand demand from my local branch for £62330.27 - I ignored it.

 

March 2009 a letter from Customer Debt Management "following the banks recent formal demand " I didn't ignore this one but phoned, explained that my situation wasn't improved and asked what next? I was advised that they would be in touch.

 

Last week both my husband and I received separate letters from DWF LLP

Our Client: Lloyds TSB Bank plc

Your liabilities originally domiciled at their xxx Branch

 

.... In accordance with the terms of the Legal Charge we hereby give you formal notice that our client proposes to exercise the powers and remedies conferred on it as mortgagee by the Law of Property Act 1925, as varied or extended by the Legal Charge, by sale of the Property or otherwise unless, in the meantime, you redeem the Property by payment to our client of the amount due under and secured by the Legal Charge.

 

You have 14 days from the date of this letter (14th sept) to provide us with a constructive settlement proposition for our clients consideration, failing which we are authorised to initiate proceedings by way of enforcement of the Legal Charge which will seek an Order for Possession of the Property together with a Monetary Judgement without further warning.

 

I guess what I'm really asking is does anybody think its worth me going the whole hog on this ?

should I request a SAR and start the process or am I to late?

 

Please, please - any advice

 

phew....Ok, so I really dont know where to go from here.

I want to fight them but honestly don't know where to begin.

 

Any advice appreciated

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Hi, previously posted on Lloyds bank forum regarding a secured loan.

Have today received a Claim form for possession of property.

 

I am going to my local CAB today for advice but any guidance/advice from here would be much appreciated.

 

My original post is long, but tells my situation.

Trying not to panic here but please please please read it and tell me if I'm to late to stop the repossession.

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Hi, nunnyrose.

 

I have merged your threads, make it easier for people to help you.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

 
 

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

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Sound, I'll see if I can get someone to help.

 
 

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

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Hi, it's never too late to put in a defence, but you will have to have a proposal for repayment and any information relating to other issues. You should certainly send an SAR, but they will have 40 days to respond - what date is the possession hearing set for?

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Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums

 

 

This site is run solely on donations

 

My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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well heres a thing, the date for the hearing is either the 2nd November or 12th, not sure which as the paperwork has the 2 dates, obviously a clerical error.

 

No luck with my local CAB today as they were to busy to see me :( going back again tomorrow first thing to get to the front of the queue!

 

been back to CAB today and had gateway meeting, got to go back again tomorrow for an appointment with a legal advisor for help with my defence.

 

As this secured loan is a 2nd charge the CAB dont think that Lloyds will be successful unless the Mortgage Company agree.

 

We are currrently paying our mortgage + extra each month to cover arrears so I dont know if this will influence the mortgage co. decision ( I dont even know if they are aware of the 2nd charge)

 

also advice given this morning is that I should cancel my debt management plan as not priory debt so not really sure how to deal with this as the thought of being hounded again is depressing.

I'll keep posting updates but meanwhile any other advice would be great :)

 

BTW Ell-enn, thanks for your reply, the date is confirmed now as 2nd November for the hearing.

 

Just got back from CAB, not looking good.

have been advised to put the house on the market to show the court we are trying to sell it to pay the debt. :eek:

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I have been reading through my original agreement and have picked up on a few errors.

 

My business address is wrong, shows my old add. although I had moved premises at the time the paperwork was signed, and the bank had been informed.

 

Specific terms and conditions state

:- The loan must be borrowed on or before xx.xx.xx unless the bank agrees otherwise:

a) no borrowing may be made until all the conditions mentioned in clause 2.1 of have been satisfied and

b) you will not be entitled to borrow any amount which has not been borrowed by the agreed date -

 

I have signed 4 days after this date and didn't actually get the loan until nearly 4 months later.

 

Specific terms and conditions clause 2.1

:-Preconditions and security

- Unless received by the bank prior to the date on which this agreement is signed by the bank, the bank is to receive inform and substance acceptable to the bank the security listed in the security schedule and documents, evidence or other requirements of the preconditions (if any) set out in the preconditions schedule

 

-The security documents are dated approx. 3 months after the agreement date. also the date has been changed making the year questionable.

 

Specific terms and conditions clause 2.6 Period of offer:- This agreement shall come into effect only if the bank recieves from you and finds in order a signed copy of this agreement on or before xx.xx.xx - This is actually dated 3 years earlier.

 

I'm a desperate woman, and maybe clutching at straws but any opinions ?

 

would appreciate any opinions on my post #11 above.

 

CAB aren't helping much at moment.

 

Sorry to be persistent but another question/observation -

just been checking through the agreement for the 1000th time and realised this:-

 

secured loan was for £60,000 + £900 arrangement fee = £60,900 as shown on the agreement.

 

Looking through my bank statement there was also a charge 0f £900 arrangement fee so I've paid twice.

 

checking further, the smaller loan for 5k + arrangement of £480 = £5480 taken round about the same time

 

the sneaky gits have done the same thing again!

Edited by nunnyrose
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I think that you are asking for advice on the enforcibility of the loan to avoid possession so I am not sure really if you are in the right part of the forum. Also you do not have a huge amount of time. This is a business loan and I am not sure what the complaints proceedure is in your terms and conditions but that normally would be your way forward. Is it the FOS?

 

My only advice would be to put the property on the market and use the Norgan case so that you can stay in the house while it is being sold.Then work on the rest of your case.

 

What do you want to put in your defence?

 

The fact that you dispute the amount owed?

 

 

What do you think makes a case for the fact the loan is not enforcable - dates of signing etc?

 

the mistakes over PPI?

 

What happened to your charges on the business account do you know how much they totalled?

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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The case law you need to use if you want to stay in the property is not Norgan, it's S. 91 Law and Property Act 1925 Palk v Mortgage Services Funding Plc 1993.

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Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums

 

 

This site is run solely on donations

 

My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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Thanks for your responses Jansus and Ell-enn.

 

I realise I'm just desperate and clutching at straws and have now accepted that there is no way we can keep the house.

 

will follow your advice and put the house on the market and I need to read up on both the Norgan case and S. 91 Law and Property Act 1925 Palk v Mortgage Services Funding Plc 1993.

 

I'm still working on the bank charges - penalty charges are approx £3750 but not finished yet.

 

The PPI charges were refunded on the original loan ( now cleared ) but without the interest I would have paid each month for the insurance as part of the loan, so dont know if I have a claim there.

The smaller loan for 5K also has PPI.

 

The CAB are going to help with the defence, I am waiting for their call - they said they would contact me next week with another appointment date and time.

All I'm really trying to do is reduce the amount owed, not deny it.

 

Thanks again - this emotionally drained lady is going for a soak in the bath and hopefully a good nights slumber :)

 

So... an update.

Have finally heard back from CAB today.

They can't help, have said that it's to big and complicated for them to deal with.

 

As it stands we've still haven't filled in our defence form (help?)

We are working on our Income and expenditure but struggling to be realistic as we are both self employed.

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Hi, what do you want to ask the court to do? are you going to ask for time to sell the property or, do you want to keep the property and offer something towards the arrears on top of the normal monthly payment. We need to know this before we can help with an defence.

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My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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Hi Ell-enn

We want to keep the property. 2 kids - 17year old in full time education and 19 year old unemployed but just been given a trail period of 7 days for new job.

 

We would like to make an offer of monthly payment.

We have no idea of what the arrears are, never been informed.

Historically I have formal demands for the full amount and the claim for possession is for the full amount.

 

We would like to make an offer of monthly payment, have no idea what the arrears are as have never been informed.

 

All I have is formal demand for full amount owed to bank.

The claim form is for possession of property.

 

(I apologise if this is posted twice, couldn't see my first reply post)

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OK, do you have a recent statement from them ? if not you need to write by special delivery asking for one and giving them 7 days to send it. We need that for the court - if you need help with the letter please let me know.

 

No doubt there will be several late payment charges added on also. Among the paperwork they sent did they not state what payments were missed?

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Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums

 

 

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My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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I have statements up to March 09, nothing more received since then.

No late payment charges. The letter I received in March shows the balance of the secured loan, the overdraft and the smaller loan.

 

The court paperwork says:-

6. The state of the account between the parties in relation to the liabilities due under and secured by the mortgae as at the date hereof is as follows:-

a) The secured amount due under the Mortgage as at the date of demand (31/12/09) ; £76,787.13

 

b) The amount of periodic payments required to be made; N/A

 

c) The amount of instalments or interest in arrear; N/A

 

d) The secured Amount due under the Mortgage as at 09/10/09 (taking into account any adjustments for early settlement. This includes £1500.00 payable for solicitors costs and administration charges £82, 661.31

 

The amount of a days interest on the liabilities recited above as being due under and secured by the mortgage is £12.99 per day

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Have you tried to get any legal advice on this at all? a 1 hour free consultation with a solicitor might help. Or check your house insurance and see if legal assistance is included in the cover.

 

Also, are there any Law Centres near you - which part of the country are you in?

Help us to keep on helping

Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums

 

 

This site is run solely on donations

 

My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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Haven't taken any legal advice - been searching for a 1 hour free service but doesn't seem to be anything in this area. A friend suggested seeing a solicitor and worrying about how to pay later but that doesn't seem right to me.

House insurance is with Lloyds so I guess thats a no go.

No law centres near here that I'm aware of -

We live in the south east.

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Have a look here About Law Centres

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Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums

 

 

This site is run solely on donations

 

My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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Thanks for that Ell-enn, no law centres close to me, and no transport to get to the nearest one.

 

I'm waiting for a solititor to get in touch with me via Lawyer Guide - Find solicitors in our directory

I'll keep you posted

 

Have spoken to solicitor, giving a brief outline of everything.

 

Solicitor works with a company called Cartell (?) and thinks he/they can help.

 

Waiting for him to call me back - if not today then Monday

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Did you find out where they are based, or the solicitor's name?

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Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums

 

 

This site is run solely on donations

 

My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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The Solicitor is based in my home town, works privately from home. He has a lot of experience with repossessions, but usually for the other side. Dont know if thats a good thing or not.

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Well one way of looking at it is, he'll know how the lenders operate and what they're likely to accept.

Help us to keep on helping

Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums

 

 

This site is run solely on donations

 

My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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Sorry I could not be of help on this one. But i do feel for you.Sounds as if the lender has let things get out of hand.Hope you get help soon

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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  • Andyorch changed the title to Lloyds secured loan, Claim for possession.

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