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Court summons for low tyre tread


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That was 9 years ago. Oddly, I'm quite anal about replacing my tyres now, and had two done just last week when they still had about 3mm of tread left ;)

 

Actually tests show that even when the tyres have 3/4mm of tread, their performance is reduced greatly. Your doing the right thing.

 

Is it just me, or does anyone else find the image of the OP walking into court with a tyre slung under his arm...?:D

 

Interestingly, there was a case where the justices looked at the tyre when the defendent bought them into court. They wanted to measure it and asked the police officer to go fetch a device to check the tread depth. The justices retired and recorded the tread depth in private, and returned stating "that the members of the bench were drivers and not experts but felt that there was reason to believe the tyres were coming to the end of their usable lives, and they convicted the applicant."

 

The defendant was convicted on this basis, but on appeal the case was thrown out because " it was not proper for the justices to act as their own expert evidence in their private room by using the tyre tread measuring gauge"

 

Interesting case to read, especially the outburst of the solicitors when the justices request a tread depth gauge.

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OK, This is what I came up with regarding my defence:

 

"I plead guilty of driving my car with a tyre having a tread under legal limit of 1.6mm. To the best of my knowledge at the time I was stopped I was not aware of the tyre being faulty. I was very surprised when the Officer told me about a defect, as I always do my best to keep the car in the top working condition. Whatmore, I was driving with my girlfriend as a passanger. I was angry at myself because I could have never forgive myself if anything happened to her or any other person as a result of my carelessness. Therefore, I fully understand seriousness of the offence I have unwillingly commited. As my defence, I would like to show that I treat the whole situation seriously and because of that I had the faulty front left tyre replaced straight after the incident (got the receipt as a proof). What's more, few days later I did replace front right tyre as well (got receipt as a proof). I could have replaced both tyres

at the same time, but I did not have enough money to pay for both. Also, I would like to remark that 0.6mm depth of the tread that was recorded by the Officer could not be confirmed by the employee of ********* located in ******** in which I had my faulty tyre replaced straight after the incident. Although, measurements taken by the member of staff at ************* that were wrote down for me do not indicate that the tyre was legal at that time, they do show that tyre must have worn out not long before the incident. This is different to the situation if the tread depth would be only 0.6mm. This particular model of a tyre is made of a soft, high-grip rubber, and I personally think this makes it more likely to wear quicker than others. Therefore I commit myself to carefully check condition of the tyres more regulary.

There is one more, and last thing that I would like to present. After I was alleged by the Officer of commiting an offence, I told him that I was not aware of the faulty tyre. I also accepted accusation and asked for a fine. I asked whether the Fixed Penalty Notice could be issued. The answer I got was, that it cannot be applied in my case, as I am the holder of a non-British Driving Licence and therefore Penalty Points cannot be imposed on it. What I found out the next day was, that according to changes made to the Road Safety Act 2006 (c.49, sections 8 and 9) that became effective on 1 April 2009, UK Police Officers are now able to issue Fixed Penalty Notices to the European Community or European Economic Area licence holders. It clearly means that I am allowed to take an advantage of a fixed penalty system. Therefore I truly believe that I was given misleading information."

 

What do you think about it?

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You really are wasting your time and exposing yourself to further costs, your tyre was defective, saying that you were unaware is not a defence, end of story.

Lula

 

Lula v Abbey - Settled

Lula v Abbey (2) - Settled

Lula v Abbey (3) - Stayed

 

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OK, This is what I came up with regarding my defence:

 

"I plead guilty of driving my car with a tyre having a tread under legal limit of 1.6mm. To the best of my knowledge at the time I was stopped I was not aware of the tyre being faulty. I was very surprised when the Officer told me about a defect, as I always do my best to keep the car in the top working condition. Whatmore, I was driving with my girlfriend as a passanger. I was angry at myself because I could have never forgive myself if anything happened to her or any other person as a result of my carelessness. Therefore, I fully understand seriousness of the offence I have unwillingly commited. As my defence, I would like to show that I treat the whole situation seriously and because of that I had the faulty front left tyre replaced straight after the incident (got the receipt as a proof). What's more, few days later I did replace front right tyre as well (got receipt as a proof). I could have replaced both tyres

at the same time, but I did not have enough money to pay for both. Also, I would like to remark that 0.6mm depth of the tread that was recorded by the Officer could not be confirmed by the employee of ********* located in ******** in which I had my faulty tyre replaced straight after the incident. Although, measurements taken by the member of staff at ************* that were wrote down for me do not indicate that the tyre was legal at that time, they do show that tyre must have worn out not long before the incident. This is different to the situation if the tread depth would be only 0.6mm. This particular model of a tyre is made of a soft, high-grip rubber, and I personally think this makes it more likely to wear quicker than others. Therefore I commit myself to carefully check condition of the tyres more regulary.

 

There is one more, and last thing that I would like to present. After I was alleged by the Officer of commiting an offence, I told him that I was not aware of the faulty tyre. I also accepted accusation and asked for a fine. I asked whether the Fixed Penalty Notice could be issued. The answer I got was, that it cannot be applied in my case, as I am the holder of a non-British Driving Licence and therefore Penalty Points cannot be imposed on it. What I found out the next day was, that according to changes made to the Road Safety Act 2006 (c.49, sections 8 and 9) that became effective on 1 April 2009, UK Police Officers are now able to issue Fixed Penalty Notices to the European Community or European Economic Area licence holders. It clearly means that I am allowed to take an advantage of a fixed penalty system. Therefore I truly believe that I was given misleading information."

 

What do you think about it?

 

Regarding the last paragraph.

 

It is not your choice to 'take advantage' of the fixed penalty system. It is the officers decision to make the offer or not.

 

Since its not your choice, personally, I struggle to see how you were misled. Others may disagree.

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You can't really begin a defence with "I plead guilty" - that would more a plea of mitigation which it looks as if you are looking to submit.

 

What would you suggest that should I start it with then?

 

You really are wasting your time and exposing yourself to further costs, your tyre was defective, saying that you were unaware is not a defence, end of story.

 

Very constructive advice. Be aware of the fact, that I do wish to plead guilty and everything else I would like to be treated as mitigating circumstances.

 

Regarding the last paragraph.

 

It is not your choice to 'take advantage' of the fixed penalty system. It is the officers decision to make the offer or not.

 

Since its not your choice, personally, I struggle to see how you were misled. Others may disagree.

 

These are not my words that you've quoted - I mean 'take advantage'.

Read this form - in particular explanatory notes in part B on the 2nd page.

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/gr...dg_10030243.pdf

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I'd begin by writing:

 

"I am pleading guilty to [whatever the charge is] as I appreciate this is an absolute offence, and would respectfully ask the court to consider the following in mitigation:

 

Then list the other stuff above, explaining how you were unaware the tyre was worn, rectified it immediately, are conscious of road safety and maybe something on the lines that you are struggling financially and would be extremely grateful for whatever leniency the magistrates were able to offer.

 

I'd also omit any critical comments about the police.

 

Good luck.

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I'd begin by writing:

 

"I am pleading guilty to [whatever the charge is] as I appreciate this is an absolute offence, and would respectfully ask the court to consider the following in mitigation:

 

Then list the other stuff above, explaining how you were unaware the tyre was worn, rectified it immediately, are conscious of road safety and maybe something on the lines that you are struggling financially and would be extremely grateful for whatever leniency the magistrates were able to offer.

 

I'd also omit any critical comments about the police.

 

Good luck.

 

Thank you for your quick answer. I will change the beginning and try to fit other information to the text.

 

Regarding my comments about the police. This was the second time when I was given false information by the police officers that were unaware of the current law, but despite that were trying to convince me to what they were saying. This false information could have had an impact on what decisions would have been made by me after it. Eg. first time, after being UK resident for over 2 years, I was told during the routine check that my driving licence is invalid and I should replace it immediately for a UK one. After it, I phoned up DVLA and was told that I am allowed to drive on my licence until it's valid, or for three years, or until I`m 70 yo (whichever is longest period of time).

 

If you mention that I should not include it in my statement, can I make an official complaint? And if yes, can I do it before or after the hearing, and where exactly?

 

One more thing. If I was told that will receive court summons, does it always mean that I will, or is there a chance that I was only threatened?

Edited by MungoPL
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I was told during the routine check that my driving licence is invalid and I should replace it immediately for a UK one. After it, I phoned up DVLA and was told that I am allowed to drive on my licence until it's valid, or for three years, or until I`m 70 yo (whichever is longest period of time).

 

I think the DVLA will have told you you could use it for whichever was the SHORTEST period of time from the options you have listed.

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What would you suggest that should I start it with then?

 

 

 

Very constructive advice. Be aware of the fact, that I do wish to plead guilty and everything else I would like to be treated as mitigating circumstances.

 

 

 

These are not my words that you've quoted - I mean 'take advantage'.

Read this form - in particular explanatory notes in part B on the 2nd page.

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/gr...dg_10030243.pdf

 

 

Yep, I see.

 

Its not worded very well from their end.

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I think the DVLA will have told you you could use it for whichever was the SHORTEST period of time from the options you have listed.

 

From Driving in Great Britain (GB) on a licence issued in a European Community/European Economic Area (EC/EEA) country : Directgov - Motoring

 

Residents

 

If you have a valid community licence, this will allow you to drive in GB for the period set out below.Alternatively, you can exchange your licence for a British licence.

Provided your licence remains valid you may drive in GB:

Car, motorcycle driving licence holders (ordinary driving licence):

 

  • until aged 70 or for three years after becoming resident, whichever is the longer period

Lorry, minibus, bus driving licence holders (vocational driving licence):

 

  • until aged 45 or for five years after becoming resident, whichever is the longer period
  • if you are aged over 45 (but under 65) until your 66th birthday or for five years after becoming resident, whichever is the shorter period
  • if you are aged 65 or over for 12 months after becoming resident

In order to continue driving after these periods, you must get a British driving licence.

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Incidentally, you could make a complaint. I don't feel the officers here have been unreasonable or unfair. I'm not sure it would go anywhere.

 

I would suspect any complaint would go into the 'need further training' file at best.

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Incidentally, you could make a complaint. I don't feel the officers here have been unreasonable or unfair. I'm not sure it would go anywhere.

 

I would suspect any complaint would go into the 'need further training' file at best.

 

 

Whilst I would suspect you may be right that a complaint would go no where, however I don't think I agree with your earlier comment that Mungo wasn't treated unfairly. From the sound of Mungo's first post, and the fact that he does seem very clear on how things like his licence, insurance etc does work for a foreign driver, I think the officers got out of their car, got 2 spades out of their boot, and were intent on digging until they found something they could hang on Mungo.

 

It sounds like they did nothing more than a speculative punt at pulling him and having done so, wanted a "success". If you are suggesting this is their normal behaviour, then it is little wonder that traffic cops retain very little respect from the public.

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letshelp asked about tyre serial numbers. The number will indicate when and where the tyre was manufactured.

Serial Number - PIRELLI TYRE

Thanks GWC,

I did mention that I wasn't aware that INDIVIDUAL tyres had serial numbers.

regards

Please remember our troops, fighting and dying in our name. God protect them.

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Whilst I would suspect you may be right that a complaint would go no where, however I don't think I agree with your earlier comment that Mungo wasn't treated unfairly. From the sound of Mungo's first post, and the fact that he does seem very clear on how things like his licence, insurance etc does work for a foreign driver, I think the officers got out of their car, got 2 spades out of their boot, and were intent on digging until they found something they could hang on Mungo.

 

It sounds like they did nothing more than a speculative punt at pulling him and having done so, wanted a "success". If you are suggesting this is their normal behaviour, then it is little wonder that traffic cops retain very little respect from the public.

 

These weren't traffic officers Crem, not that would be an excuse.

 

The other way of looking at this is that the officers were very thorough in their approach to documentation and vehicle examination. The reality is they may have prevented an accident by detecting the tyre. Many stops are 'speculative'. (Although this one wasn't. The OP had his tax disc obscured by a pay & display from the council). You get a feeling about a car or driver, maybe the circumstances don't seem right, it can be anything. Criminals use the roads to ply their trade. Not all drivers are criminals, but nearly all criminals are drivers (experience).

 

Secondly, its unfortunate but we deal with many drivers from outstide the UK living and working here who do not have the proper documentation and who are unaware of the standards they need to keep their vehicle to. I can say that from my experience. Many are decent people who didn't know, some didn't bother to find out and others are fully aware but are just seeing how long they can get away with it for. I actually had someone say to me!!

 

The OP does seem decent and upstanding and aware of his responsibilities. In this case it does seem he has made a mistake. However, what is wrong with the officers being thorough?

 

Is it them finding the tyre you don't like? Is it that they chose to deal with it via summons you don't like? Or is it juist them being thorough? Of course, we don't have the officers on here to comment or explain their course of action. So we do only have the OP's first post to take a view from, and that of course is only side of the story.

 

You are, of course entitled to your opinion. I have found the vast majority of the public I've dealt with very respectful and friendly even in the light of offences they may or may not have committed. And thats been both before and after they've been reported.

 

I think the complaint would go no where because I suspect the officers have not been trained on the new system. In any case as far as the officer is concerned he has a tyre which has only .66mm (as I recall) of tread on it and he may feel that warrants putting it before the court.

 

So. personally I don't think he's been treated unfairly. But happy to debate with good humour!

Edited by TD27
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What I want to do is to send a letter to the Chief Constable, complaining on the way I have been treated, and the fact that I was not informed of the current law. This is what I wrote:

 

Dear Mr **********, Chief Constable of ******** Constabulary,

I write to express my serious dissatisfaction of the way I was treated by two Police Officers when I was stopped on 21.09.2009 at about ****** PM on ****** in C******by a Police car with registration number ******.

I was stopped at the roadside and one of the Officers found that tread depth of front left tyre on my car is below legal limit of 1.6mm. I admitted I did not know about the tyre being faulty. I was shocked when the Officer pointed this out to me as I always do my best to keep the car in the top working condition. I accepted the fact of committing an offence and committed myself to replace the faulty tyre immediately. I asked the Officer whether Fixed Penalty Notice can be issued because this was a single offence and I had no motoring convictions before. Answer I was given by the Officer was that this could not be issued to me, as I am EU national and a holder of driving licence issued in Poland and therefore Penalty Points cannot be imposed on my licence. He also told me that because of this fact, the offence has to be dealt by The Magistrates Court.

I would like to kindly ask you, why are your Officers not issuing Fixed Penalty Notices to nationals from other EU states holding a valid driving licence issued in one of those states, who commit a single offence that would normally qualify for 3 penalty points and a Conditional Fixed Penalty Offer?

 

According to changes made to the Road Safety Act 2006 (c.49, sections 8 and 9) that became effective on 1 April 2009, UK Police Officers are now able to issue Fixed Penalty Notices to the European Community or European Economic Area licence holders. The UK was obliged to make this change following a complaint to the EC when a Dutch motorist was required to attend UK Court and the fine was higher than the Fixed Penalty Notice so was declared discriminatory.

 

This clearly means that I am ‘allowed to take an advantage of a fixed penalty system’ (as per explanatory notes in part B on the 2nd page of DVLA form D9 – “Application for a driving licence counterpart for non-GB licence holders”) and Penalty Points can be imposed on my licence.

 

I am Polish, and have been UK resident for over three years now. I feel discriminated because of the situation that took place. I am very sad to say that it is really unfair to me to be summonsed to Court as a result of your Officers not being up to date with this information. I also would like to point out that the faulty tyre was immediately replaced on that day. What is more, the other tyre on that axle (that was still in the legal limit) was replaced few days later as I was concerned about my safety and safety of other people on the road. Please find attached copies of invoices for both tyres.

 

I would like to ask now if there is any way for the Police Force to still make me a Conditional Fixed Penalty Offer. I have demonstrated that Police Forces are now able to issue Fixed Penalty Notices for these single offences to EC or EEA nationals being UK residents with a valid driving licence issued in EU country. I would like to add that in my opinion public money can be saved by the matter not being dealt with in Court, and that the Officer only failed to issue a Fixed Penalty Notice due to the apparent lack of being updated on the new procedure.

 

 

Yours truly,

****** ******

 

What do you think ?

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I think it is appalling that you are waving the discrimination card! You think you were discriminated again because you are foreign? You were discriminated against because you broke the law! ignorance of the law is not a defence.

Lula

 

Lula v Abbey - Settled

Lula v Abbey (2) - Settled

Lula v Abbey (3) - Stayed

 

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I think it is appalling that you are waving the discrimination card! You think you were discriminated again because you are foreign? You were discriminated against because you broke the law! ignorance of the law is not a defence.

 

 

I think some of still get me wrong.

I do know that I am guilty.

 

I do also know that I was not given apropriate information by the Officer (it was not even mentioned by him, what's more - he denied it). And this is exact case as the one with Dutch motorist that was issued summons instead of FPN and passed the matter to the European Commision.

 

I would like to get 3 points and a 60 pounds fine as I would get if the Officer knew about the current law (if only he did not decide of passing the matter to the Court - bearing in mind that he knew at that time of the possibility of FPN being issued to me).

 

I do want to save myself hassle and day off work that I would have to go through if I am meant to go to Court.

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I can't say I agree with the method you're using, however, I do see where you're coming from based on the officers assertion that the decision is one of the fixed penalty system not being open to you rather than the seriousness of the lack of tread.

 

That said, to me it is not the treatment by the officers that is in question. It is their knowledge of the options open to them you're calling into question. To that end I would ammend the opening line of your letter unless you feel that the personal treatment you received (rude or aggressive) was at issue.

 

Just my thoughts

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I can't say I agree with the method you're using, however, I do see where you're coming from based on the officers assertion that the decision is one of the fixed penalty system not being open to you rather than the seriousness of the lack of tread.

 

That said, to me it is not the treatment by the officers that is in question. It is their knowledge of the options open to them you're calling into question. To that end I would ammend the opening line of your letter unless you feel that the personal treatment you received (rude or aggressive) was at issue.

 

Just my thoughts

 

I agree that beginning could be changed. As you mentioned the current one would be apropriate if they were rude to me etc.

 

Could you please suggest me what would be the more correct beginning then? Thanks!

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maybe something like;

 

....dissatisfaction of the way your force has treated me when I was stopped....

 

I was stopped at the roadside by two officers and one of them upon examining my vehicle.....

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maybe something like;

 

....dissatisfaction of the way your force has treated me when I was stopped....

 

I was stopped at the roadside by two officers and one of them upon examining my vehicle.....

 

 

Thank you! I like it, and the letter was changed.

 

MungoPL

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I think it is appalling that you are waving the discrimination card! You think you were discriminated again because you are foreign? You were discriminated against because you broke the law! ignorance of the law is not a defence.

 

A UK citizen would have (most likely) been offered the option of an FPN. Mungo is Polish and was therefore told he wasn't eligable to receive one. That means Polish people are not treated the same as UK people which, I would suggest, IS discrimatory!

 

The "offence" is not relevant to the comment of discrimination, only how the offence was dealt with due to his nationality, how can you see it any other way?

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A UK citizen would have (most likely) been offered the option of an FPN. Mungo is Polish and was therefore told he wasn't eligable to receive one. That means Polish people are not treated the same as UK people which, I would suggest, IS discrimatory!

 

The "offence" is not relevant to the comment of discrimination, only how the offence was dealt with due to his nationality, how can you see it any other way?

 

You got to the point. This is exactly what I meant and was trying to say :-)

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NO not at all, not because of his nationality but because of the type of driving licence he carries. There HAS to be a way of being able to punish transgressors of the law, if it is by reason of points on a driving licence and the transgressor doesnt have a driving licence that can be endorsed then there has to be another available means.

 

If it is not liked perhaps the law ought to be changed to only allow people that have passed their test in England and hold a british licence to drive in this country.

 

Happy now?

Lula

 

Lula v Abbey - Settled

Lula v Abbey (2) - Settled

Lula v Abbey (3) - Stayed

 

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