Court summons for low tyre tread

[MungoPL]

Hello all,

 

Just being curious and trying to get an explanation. Here it goes:

 

I was stopped by two police officers today afternoon. Reason for stopping me (as they stated) was the fact of my tax disc being covered with (!) a week old council parking ticket which I placed there. After I removed it, they`ve checked my tax disc, and surprisingly for them everything was fine with it. Then I was asked to provide my driving license and car insurance. When one of the officers was checking my driving license, the other one went back to their car and checked my car details using my reg number. He stated that everything was fine, but the guy checking my driving license (which was issued in Poland) still wanted me to show them my insurance certificate, what I did. I was also asked to provide my UK address first, and then to prove that Insurance Certificate was issued to the same address I have given him (what I did as well). Because up to now on everything was fine, and I didn't have any motoring offences before they`ve decided to take a closer look at my car. After a while they`e spotted that front left tyre is low on tread. I was asked to turn my wheels to one side, so one of them can measure the tread. Using some kind of a measuring tool, the depth they`ve measured was (what I was told) 0.6 mm. As far as I saw, this was measured in one place only. Tyre tread width was also measured using something that looked like a ruler.

I was told that tyre tread depth is less than minimal 1.6mm and therefore driving a car like this is illegal. I didn't now that one of the tyres is out of a limit, what I clearly stated to them. I was asked to change the wheel to a spare one, which unfortunately was too small when compared to the other 3. So they told me to drive straight to the nearest garage and replace the tyre (saying that if I am stopped by another patrol I will be done again for the same tyre).

 

Do they have right to advise me to do something that is contrary to the law?

 

What I was told is, that because I have a foreign driving license, summons will be issued and case will go to court, and there is no possibility to issue a FPN.

 

My question (apart from the one mensioned above) is, what options do I have now, and what fine should I expect to be given?

 

 

Thank you all in advance.

 

Best regards,

Simon

[gwc1000]

First off, did you do as advised and go and get a new tyre fitted? If so, did you ask the fitter whether the tyre was actually below limit, and did you keep the old tyre?

[Al27]

Wel they could have towed the car, so you were lucky that they let you drive to a garage.

 

Just sit and wait for the court summons. The fine could be up to £2,500 unfortunately, but I doubt it will be that high in reality.

[MungoPL]

First off, did you do as advised and go and get a new tyre fitted? If so, did you ask the fitter whether the tyre was actually below limit, and did you keep the old tyre?

 

I did this straight away. Unfortunately I did not ask anyone else whether the tyre was good or not and I did not keep it Good thing is, that the tyre still can be in the garage that fitted a new one and possibly I could get it back tomorrow.

 

Just sit and wait for the court summons. The fine could be up to £2,500 unfortunately, but I doubt it will be that high in reality.

 

Any rough estimate what it can be like?

[gwc1000]

I did this straight away. Unfortunately I did not ask anyone else whether the tyre was good or not and I did not keep it Good thing is, that the tyre still can be in the garage that fitted a new one and possibly I could get it back tomorrow.

That's a shame. Best to go back tomorrow and check. Did the policeman take a note of the serial number of the tyre?

[MungoPL]

That's a shame. Best to go back tomorrow and check. Did the policeman take a note of the serial number of the tyre?

 

I will do this first thing after work. As for the serial number, I didn't notice him writing down exactly that, but I saw him writing down tyre make, model and size.

 

 

I have been browsing the net to find similar example as mine with no success. But what I found is, that from 1st April 2009 according to amendments to Road Safety Act 2006, (as far as I understand it correctly) I should have been issued FPN instead of court summons as long as I was able to provide a proof of my UK address. I did that by showing them all the paperwork that came to me from my insurance company. Am I correct?

[letshelp]

I will do this first thing after work. As for the serial number, I didn't notice him writing down exactly that, but I saw him writing down tyre make, model and size.

 

I was not aware that tyres have individal serial numbers.

 

I have been browsing the net to find similar example as mine with no success. But what I found is, that from 1st April 2009 according to amendments to Road Safety Act 2006, (as far as I understand it correctly) I should have been issued FPN instead of court summons as long as I was able to provide a proof of my UK address.

 

I believe it is down to the Officer if he decides to give out a FP or proceed via Court summons.

I did that by showing them all the paperwork that came to me from my insurance company. Am I correct?

regards

[Mossycat]

I would be very surprised if you receive a summons for this.

 

The offence will probably be cited as a CU30, officers dealing with this at the scene have a choice, either allow the driver to take part in a vehicle rectification initiative (if they genuinely believe you didn't know and the tyre isn't too bad), they allow you to get it fixed straight away and that's the end of it, or they issue a FPN AND either tell you to get it fixed or tow the car.

 

Sounds to me like you got lucky and were allowed to the VRS option.

 

Mossy

[MungoPL]

I would be very surprised if you receive a summons for this.

 

The offence will probably be cited as a CU30, officers dealing with this at the scene have a choice, either allow the driver to take part in a vehicle rectification initiative (if they genuinely believe you didn't know and the tyre isn't too bad), they allow you to get it fixed straight away and that's the end of it, or they issue a FPN AND either tell you to get it fixed or tow the car.

 

Sounds to me like you got lucky and were allowed to the VRS option.

 

Mossy

 

It would sound to me the same, if only he did not mention the court in what he said.

[spitfire650]

The police used to hot on this is the past. Their rationale being tires with inadequate tread are likely to loose their grip in the wet and are therefore a safety hazard.

 

If you do get summoned you are looking at a fine nearer the lower end of the scale, particularly if you explain the circumstances to the magistrates.

[Lula]

This might help UK tyre law legal requirements for manufacturer & motorist - fitment, condition, tread depth & wear

[scousegeezer]

MungoPL,

Yopu have not been given a Fixed Penalty Notice, because the Magistrates Court cannot endorse a licence other than a UK licence. Thats why you will be summoned. Having the tyre replaced is a good thing. What I would recommend you do is , once you have received the summons; I would notify the court that you intend to plead guilty byt that you wish to attend court in person to give mitigation. Attend the court on the date, take with you the receipt for the new tyr and show it to the court. This way you will probably be fines the amount of the fixed penalty amount. This is what I have found happens in my experience. The courts recognise that a "foreign" driver cannot be given a FPN and usually fine the amount of the fixed penalty.

 

It does not sound as if you have been given a VDRS (vehicle defect rectification scheme notice). As the offie s metied court.

 

Cheers Scousegeezer.

[Mossycat]

I would still hold out hope.

 

When stopped by Police they explain ALL the options, ie Court, FPN, VDRS etc, so I'm not surprised that they mentioned Court when explaining the situation to you.

 

Mossy

[gwc1000]

letshelp asked about tyre serial numbers. The number will indicate when and where the tyre was manufactured.

Serial Number - PIRELLI TYRE

[TD27]

0.6mm is very low and it only needs to be at any one point within the central three quarters of the tyre.

 

You are not entitled to a fixed penalty offer, it is at the officers discretion as to how they deal with the matter.

 

I suspect the reason you didn't get a vehicle defect rectification notice (as I read your post) is because of how low the tyre was. If the officer felt it dangerous enough he / she could have prohibited your car from moving. So the choice for the officer was to take action by dealing with the offence, but allow you to continue on your way, taking account of all the prevailing circumstances, in order to get the tyre replaced or prohibit the vehicle from going any further until the defect was rectified. More problematic for you.

 

Did you get any form of ticket or paperwork from the officers?

[MungoPL]

MungoPL,

Yopu have not been given a Fixed Penalty Notice, because the Magistrates Court cannot endorse a licence other than a UK licence. Thats why you will be summoned.

 

Thank you for your advice. If it goes about endorsing a non-UK license, the thing I found was a Commencement Order No 5 2008 for Road Safety Act 2006 which makes EEC and EU licenses endorsable without the need of possesing a counterpart to this license and/or a GB license (commencement date 1 April 2009). This is what i found on the net about it:

 

Document was called "ROAD SAFETY ACT 2006 commencement dates.pdf" which stated:

 

Section 8 – Driving Record (New system)

Currently it is only possible to issue a FPN for an endorsable RT offence to a person

who holds both a driving licence and a counterpart issued in the UK. As such, the

police cannot issue a FPN to non-GB licence holders such as Northern Ireland and

non-UK licence holders unless they hold a counterpart licence on which a record of

penalty points can be kept. Therefore S8 allows FPNs to be issued to drivers who do

not have counterpart licences and will be in two stages:

S8 RTOA has new section 97A with the introduction of the ‘concept of a licence held

by the S of S and designed for the endorsement of particulars of offences committed

by a person under the Traffic Acts.

 

Section 9 Unlicensed and foreign drivers (New system)

Schedule 2 – Endorsement unlicensed and foreign drivers

Provides for the first stage where they introduce endorsements of records for

Unlicensed and foreign drivers (other than EC and NI licence holders who have been

issued with a counterpart licence).

S9 enable the police or a VE to issue FPN for offences where drivers would not be

liable to disqualification for ‘totting’ if convicted. In these cases court attendance is

required as with GB licence holders whose licence counterpart must be inspected to

ascertain if penalty points will take them up to or over 12 points.

Driver records to be checked before a FPN is issued through the police or VE having

access to driving records and also enables the S of S to endorse driving records rather

than a FP Clerk endorsing the counterpart licence where the driver accepts the FPN

and a court appearance is not requested or required.

In the first stage no change in EC or NI licences where a counterpart has been issued.

The UK is obliged to make this change following a complaint to the EC when a Dutch

motorist was required to attend court and the fine was higher than the FPN so was

declared discriminatory.

Section 10 (all drivers) and Schd 3 (endorsement: all drivers) commencing at a later

date (Stage 2) will introduce a new system of endorsements for all records and the

counterpart will cease to have any function.

Stage 2 with regard to FPNs will create two categories of driver:

1. Those who hold GB licences issued under Part 3 RTA:

2. Those who do not.

GB licence holders will still have to produce their licences in order to be issued with a

FPN.

EC and NI who held counterpart licences under the RTA will no longer be dealt with

as a GB licence holder but will be dealt with in the same way as an unlicensed and

other foreign drivers.

 

 

Did you get any form of ticket or paperwork from the officers?

 

No, nothing at all... and this surprised me as well.

[TD27]

There is still no requirement for the officer to issue a fixed penalty notice to you. It may be they feel the tyre tread was particularly poor at 0.6mm and wish to put it before the court.

 

Any points issued by the court may then be added to a 'ghost' licence.

 

If you have received no paperwork at the roadside then they have not dealt with you under the vehicle defect rectification scheme.

 

The advice you got about replacing the tyre and keeping the receipt for court is good advice, make sure you keep it.

 

I think this may well go to court due to the officers recording the tyre details and measuring not only the depth but the width too.

 

The obligation is yours to make sure that your vehicle is roadworthy. Not knowing about the tyre is not a defence.

 

Personally, I don't feel you've be dealt with unfairly.

[MungoPL]

Allright, time for some picture story.

 

I am after work now and managed to recover my old tyre. What I did is, I asked a guy at the tyre centre to measure the depth of the grooves on the tyre. I was surprised when he took out a digital measuring tool , exactly this one:

 

 

in comparison to what officer used to measure tread depth, which was:

 

 

 

 

Device was calibrated in front of my eyes, then the tyre was measured by a guy from tyre centre and measurements were written down. Three grooves with the depth measured are shown on the photo below:

 

(click to enlarge)

 

Some other photos that you may want to see:

 

 

What do you think about that? Anybody knows if the depth of a tread needs to be measured on the inflated tyre? I am waiting for replies. Many thanks in advance!

 

Simon

[TD27]

Certain forces use different devices. Ours is the digital version.

 

As long as the device is calibrated it is suitable.

 

The problem as I see it is that you don't know exactly where the officer measured on the tyre.

 

Its worth keeping the tyre.

 

I couldnt see where the measurements taken you talked about were.

[MungoPL]

Certain forces use different devices. Ours is the digital version.

 

As long as the device is calibrated it is suitable.

 

Unfortunately I don't know whether the one that they've used was calibrated or not.

 

The problem as I see it is that you don't know exactly where the officer measured on the tyre.

 

Its worth keeping the tyre.

 

I couldnt see where the measurements taken you talked about were.

 

Do you mean you didn't see the picture?

 

This picture: http://img233.imageshack.us/i/forum1l.jpg/

 

1,26mm 1,62mm 2,28mm

[TD27]

Were these officers traffic officers? White hats?

 

If so I would think their device was probably calibrated. In any case even one of your own measurements is below 1.6mm and I presume that was within the central three quarters.

[MungoPL]

Were these officers traffic officers? White hats?

 

If so I would think their device was probably calibrated. In any case even one of your own measurements is below 1.6mm and I presume that was within the central three quarters.

 

This is how they were dressed: http://www.kent.police.uk/Your%20Area/Mid%20Kent/Mid_Kent_news/special%20for%20web.jpg

 

Regarding the measurements. Just got back from the MOT test centre. I spoke to the man working there (from his age - 50/60 yo - I can assume that he has been working there for years now and he know what he is saying). I asked him some more questions that I had. He was more than happy to help me, especially after I explained to him what has happened.

 

I was told that the tyre tread depth does not have to be measured whilist being on the alloy, or there's no need the tyre has to be inflated. This is in accordance with MOT testing guidelines. He then told me things that I already knew, like the area on the tyre that needs to have tread depth above 1.6mm etc.

 

He took the measurements of the old tyre and told me that two of the rows in central part of the tyre were out of spec, but were not less than 1.4mm deep. Therefore the tyre is illegal, but (he said) there's no way any part of tread on the tyre is close to 0.6mm. He advised me to take the tyre to the court.

 

Just to make it clear: I didn't ever hope that anybody will tell me that the tyre is good. Thing is, that I do not wish to plead guilty of driving with a tyre having 0.6mm tread (which is nearly bald). I would like to prove that the measurement taken by the officer were incorrect, and and as a result of that: if the proper and accurate measurements were carried out at the time I was stopped (+if they have knew of the fact that I can actually accept points on my license) a FPN might have been issued instead of summons.

[TD27]

The challenge you have is that the offence is one of being below 1.6mm of tread etc etc. There is no dispute that the tyre is below that. Hence the offence is complete.

 

So you were driving with a tyre below 1.6mm. You have the tyre so to plead not guilty when you have the tyre is unlikely to work. Plus the officer could have measured anywhere in the central three quarters. The chances of someone else measuring the exact same spot is unlikely. That said, you could get him to write a statement saying no part of the tread is below 1.4m. But I can't see it helping very much.

 

The court is unlikely to be concerned about whether you could have had a FPN. The officer has chosen to put it before the courts for whatever reason.

 

Also for the future do not rely on the MOT guidelines as a basis for road safety. They are the absolute minimum.

 

For instance you could fail and MOT for a cracked windscreen (zone A). But it could pass the MOT if you put it in with NO windscreen.

 

Construction and use guidelines are the ones we use in the police, among other things.

 

Good luck with it, but I think it may be a lost cause.

[Mossycat]

I hate to say this but what the officer stated isn't salient to their case.

 

The legal limit is 1.6mm, you have confirmed that the tyre is 1.4mm so it was illegal. Any conviction will depend on the facts and the fact is it was illegal, it doesn't matter if the police officer stated 0.6mm at the scene, that doesn't alter the fact the tyre was illegal.

 

Had the tyre reading been 1.6mm then you would have had an argument.

 

Having said that, taking the tyre to Court and showing it to be 1.4mm as opposed to 0.6mm will probably result in a lesser fine when convicted.

 

Mossy

[JuryMan77]

depending on your personal circumstances, you'll be fined (often the FPN amount, currently £60) per offence. If you plead guilty at the first opportunity, and prove you replaced the tyre as soon as the officer pointed it out to you, you'll be fine. There's no getting away from it - you broke the law, and were caught. If you've now had the tyre replaced, wait for your summons and go to court (minus the tyre ) and plead guilty, but ask to explain the circumstances (replaced it immediately etc etc).

 

I have previously had a conviction for 4 totally bald tyres (read aloud in court as "14cm in width, 12cm totally devoid of all tread") repeated 4 times as they go though the offence. I was hit for £60 per tyre, £30 costs, and 3 points (total) because of my financial circumstances.

 

That was 9 years ago. Oddly, I'm quite anal about replacing my tyres now, and had two done just last week when they still had about 3mm of tread left