Letter of Concern and Data Protection Act

[Outadebt]

Hi

I started a business back in 2002 and due to a number of issues, including perhaps blind stupidity by me in thinking......one day this will work.....anyway, I finally ceased to trade earlier this year with a 14k business Odraft with me as guarantor.

I was hoping to salvage some of the business by selling the sole business asset (website, cust base) but this did not happen. All along, the bank has been kept informed of status. Now I received a ‘Letter of Concern’ addressed to me at my home address stating I need to pay and action will be taken, etc.

My question is however, they included a copy of the same letter which they posted earlier to me and stating they are disappointed I have not responded to it, however, this original letter is addressed and therefore had been sent to the address I lived at when I opened the business account back in 2002 and left in 2003 – so does anybody have any idea if they have breached the data protection act and indeed any other banking code as they have disclosed a fair bit of unpleasant personal information to whoever lives at the address now. I wonder if this could be used as a form of leverage, not that I am looking to shirk responsibility but perhaps to buy some time or reach an agreement with them.

Any help or thoughts greatly appreciated.

[andrew1]

Hi Outadebt, & welcome to CAG.

 

There are a number of things to consider.

 

a) do you have equity enough for them to recover their loan?

 

b) do they know what you have?

 

c) Have you considered waiting until this gets to their litigation department or Debt Recovery department and try to strike a settlement with them on a reduced amount? This will depend on your negotiating skills and the balance of the equation mentioned earlier. If it were me I'd offer them £3k

 

Given your business has closed and ow strapped for cash they are, why don't you go back and offer say £3000 full and final or whatever you can afford - then once they accept making an arrangement for so much a month? Or even pay it off if you can.

 

Once you have something in place, that's the time you can negotiate further if you play your cards right.

 

Has this OD got any agreement documentation by any chance? How was the OD made up?

 

come back later and we'll try and sort something for you.

[Outadebt]

Hi Andrew1

 

Thank you for your reply. My personal situation is on the extreme side of bad. Apart from the business OD I also have a persoanl od, personal loan and credit card with the same bank and all in collections....not a pretty sight but do have temp agreements in place on the personal items. The business od has not yet got past my acct manager but the letter suggests this will not be long now...but I wonder if the breach of data protection offers me a bargaining chip of sorts? I will need to check the documents about the od to see what it states exactly and as for me, I have nothing by way of equity and as its the same bank the acct mgr does know my personal side is in collections so is therefore semi aware of my situation.

[andrew1]

Hi Andrew1

 

Thank you for your reply. My personal situation is on the extreme side of bad. Apart from the business OD I also have a persoanl od, personal loan and credit card with the same bank and all in collections....not a pretty sight but do have temp agreements in place on the personal items. The business od has not yet got past my acct manager but the letter suggests this will not be long now...but I wonder if the breach of data protection offers me a bargaining chip of sorts? I will need to check the documents about the od to see what it states exactly and as for me, I have nothing by way of equity and as its the same bank the acct mgr does know my personal side is in collections so is therefore semi aware of my situation.

 

To be honest, I doubt the DPA issue will cause much of a stir when it comes to negotiating, but it all helps. easiest way to check the significance is to call the Information commissioners Office and ask - they are extremely helpful then you can guage the level of grief you ply upon Lloyds.

 

Having read your other posts, people are suggesting applying for copy of agreements etc which is good advice to check your position, but what I feel might be helpful in getting you back into the controlling position (don't worry, it'll come) is to set your mindset onto goals.

 

Sorry if this sounds futile, but I have to start somewhere..

 

Take each account and set yourself a file up logging dates of calls in and out from each creditor.

 

Record each letter and conversation either electronically or manually so you can keep track.

 

Apply to each and every company for a copy of the Agreements you have with them (which should be Agreements and not application forms) Legible, (whether or not you have a legible copy already).

 

Once the time period of 12+2 working days lapses use the CCA follow-up letter in the library to inform them the account is in default until they supply. Once they are in default you are not obliged to pay but some suggest you continue if you wish, but they cannot litigate, pass to a dca or sell the debt whilst in default. Without a proper agreement they will not be taking you to court.

 

With the Overdraft, once in collections you are in a stronger position to negotiate either a full and final settlement or an arrangement so as to release your guarantee. I take it your business was not a Ltd Co. by the way?

 

Something to remember, you can negotiate a full and final settlement at a reduced % of the debt if you have no assets to cover it and then make a payment arrangement on that reduced amount.Try it. You can also (and I have done this) make a settlement which may be more than you'd planned or hoped for, then go back 6 months later after making a certain number of payments pleading poverty and offering a full and final again on the balance - worked for me, but then I'm a smooth talker!

 

All the time you are doing this make sure you use the legislation such as the telecommunications Act and the Administration of Justice Act available to you to demand that ALL communications are in writing and that you will not tolerate telephone calls. Get them to remove your phone number from their systems...if the customer services pleb won't do it speak to a manager and demand it - take control - you can do this, they don't like it - but you can.

 

Once they are in default you have control, do not ignore them and watch out for their threats of charging orders or such things, but you can tame these people and just like salesmen, if they find the person they are dealing with too hard to sell to, they move on to an easier target.

 

DCA's are not easy to negotiate with as they are on a commission and you'd need the cash to settle at a good rate If worse comes to worse, then have you thought of going into a Debt management plan with someone like Payplan?

 

I have a friend with over £80k's worth of CC and loan debt ( don't ask!) who is paying £125 a month over 30yrs - he's 58 yrs old! so you can remove the pressure and organise your life by removing ALL contact with any of these creditors if you wish. Going alone can be frustrating, draining and soul destroying. A DMP will want all your debts and creditors though but are life-savers to many. Google Payplan or CCCS - they are not ideal for getting negotiated settlements, but they will try it for you if you ask. Takes alot of pressure away.

 

...good luck - it works...

Edited September 23, 2009 by andrew1

[Outadebt]

Thanks Andrew1, will move forward with suggestions and advice.

 

Its easy to feel the pressure of debt but made so much easier to push back thanks to these forums and the helpful people in them.

[andrew1]

Thanks Andrew1, will move forward with suggestions and advice.

 

Its easy to feel the pressure of debt but made so much easier to push back thanks to these forums and the helpful people in them.

 

It's called Synergy and genuine generosity, without judgment, without payment something the banks have never heard of and wouldn't understand! You are most welcome.

 

I remember years back someone influenced me on here with this. You've only a short thread so I'm not hyjacking....it's inspiring take a read:

 

“Ruminations:

 

This was a liberating day - surprisingly so, in some respects.

 

Got up early, having decided to set the ball rolling. Drove my long-suffering wife (it's our 23rd anniversary on Sunday - your felicitations will be most welcome) to work and went to have a cup of coffee while waiting for the banks to open. A multi-shot black coffee with cream. Woke me up a bit.

 

Banks opened: I went to the Portman Building society first and asked if they had a basic bank account. No, is the short answer. They can't do standing orders and DDs, so no use to me, then. Looked for Co-Op: none in (market city in SW England). So I went to Lloyds TSB. I've banked with them before - 30 years ago, when I was a student. The moment I stopped being a student, they demanded the entire overdraft back. Immediately. So I switched - to NatWest, as it happens, but that was a long time ago and I've been with Midland, Barclays and NatWest again, since then.

 

Didn't have the right ID so I had to go home and get it. Went back. Explained that my credit rating was likely to be bl**dy awful - CCjs, debts registered - from bad times in the late 1990s, what with negative equity and everything. Lost £ooos on my house. Bad times, bad times. I've been grateful to NatWest for the account, the overdraft, the loan (which was for the charges racked up on my account, in essence) - everything. She said it would probably be OK: discharged bankrupts are able to have the Cash account. I wouldn't get a cheque book for at least three months but they would do SOs and DDs.

 

So we went through the opening procedure. As it turned out, the ID-ing was fine: they got me from the Electoral Roll and whatever else they use. Then: she said 'Now we do the credit scoring'.

 

Gulp!

 

(she took a deep breath, too!)

 

She pressed the button and....all fine. Nothing registered. I looked at the screen, so did she. I couldn't believe it, and neither could she, quite, because of the harrowing tale I'd told (briefly) about the problems, the CCJs (last one - 2 years ago - was Inland Revenue not agreeing the arrangement I'd put forward. The Court accepted my arrangement but gave judgement, in any case). I couldn't believe it - but then: all the financial issues, the CCJs and so on (except for Inland Revenue) were more than 6 years ago. Apparently, I was the first person for ages she didn't have to call head office about.

 

This is interesting. It was liberating - you can hardly believe the weight I felt fall from my shoulders. I've tried, over the past year or so, to negotiate loans from NatWest, either at my own instigation or by them suggesting and - no go. Don't rack up on the credit scoring.

 

I had thought - no, I'd firmly believed - for so long that I wasn't worth anything, that I was lucky to have a bank that would allow me a cheque/debit card, that i was, indeed, deeply fortunate to be allowed an overdraft and, a few years ago, a loan.

 

The experience of opening the parachute account helped me to realise something. It's a commercial relationship, nothing more (or less). But it was much more than that. Much, much more than that. It's about the relationship I've had with NatWest.

 

Psychiatrists, or maybe psychologists - counsellors and therapists, anyway - have a term for what's been going on between me and NatWest. It's called a co-dependent abusive relationship. The submissive partner - me, in this case - has feelings of worthlessness, and comes to depend on the abusive partner - the bank. The feeling of worthlessness is such that you become grateful for anything, no matter how humiliating it is. They have all the power, you have none, but they are prepared to notice you and pay some attention. They treat you with contempt - which, from their point of view, is no more than you deserve: you're a useless, submissive worm. But you are grateful: after all, no-one else will give you anything, you know that. You know it and believe it, deep in your heart.

 

Wrong.

 

Other people, outsiders, wonder why you stay in such an abusive situation. They wouldn't, they tell themselves. But you might. You might be gradually ground down, as I was. You might feel, or even believe, that you deserve the abuse. So you accept it, and you effectively beg for any attention you can get, no matter if it reinforces the appalling, negative image you've built up of yourself. You accept the refusals, the dismissals, as just, and no more than you deserve. You embrace each positive reaction as a huge favour. But it's all an abuse. As the introduction to the site says, the banks play on our innate feelings of morality, of equity and of justice and fair play. We have been brought up to believe that the banks are pillars of society, that they are above mere trade and commerce, that they are something Other. But they aren't: they're in business, like your mechanic, the market trader, the sandwich shop, Tesco's, anything. They are no more than traders and they actually produce: nothing. Not a damn thing. They add nothing of value, they merely facilitate transactions, nothing more.

 

So, opening the parachute account was a big step. Actually deciding to do it was, in fact, the Big Step. I have decided to be abused no more. Not only have I decided that, I've taken a real, positive and concrete step to do something about it, to do more than just talk about it or fantasise. I have decided to move away from the situation where I've been abused.

 

Yes, I've been lucky in the credit scoring and not everyone will get the same. But the Big Step was the decision to do it. My next tranche of income is going in to the new account. The standing orders and DDs will be transferred shortly before the next lump of income. The NatWest account will be in dispute and probably over the overdraft limit but I no longer worry about it. I'm not worried about the charges they'll levy because I now know they're illegal. I'm looking forward to finding out what my life will be like when I'm no longer putting up with someone looting my account to the tune of £300 or £400 a month.

 

NatWest isn't my children, it isn't my car (which needs to be repaired); it isn't the updated computer I would like to have in order to do my work, it isn't my wife's birthday present and it isn't my mother, who lives over 200 miles away and I haven't been able to get to see for over a year because I couldn't afford it. It isn't the heating oil company, who'd threatened to close my credit account - leaving me without heat this winter - because the DDs had been bounced - and while there was money available. It isn't the local authority, whose DD was bounced yet again this month, because of the charges. NatWest doesn't deserve any respect from me: it hasn't shown me any. It deserves neither consideration or fear from me.

 

I have my parachute account. I don't care that I won't have a chequebook for a few months. It will be a while before the case comes to court but, in my mind and in my heart, I'm now free.

 

 

 

Don't let his post have been in vain...