4 months into BR - How it's been so far

[vespapx125]

Hi, been a while but thought I'd drop in and let you know how things went at mt BR hearing-

 

Filled the SOA in wrong - woman at court helped me correct it - very helpful

 

OR phone interview lasted about 45 minutes - very pleasant and helpful - told me after my essential living allowances would take 50% they have £230 and I have same left - result

 

Got a new job, extra £8500 year, about £450 month extra, called OR, informed him, not bothered, told me just to keep paying £230 - better result - OR said he spends all day every day chasing people hiding assets, I didn't hide anything, was dead honest (well, as honest as one can be, obviously if the accepted rate, for example, is 40p per mile and your car costs you 30p a mile, you take the recommended allowance and don't put up a hullabaloo that you should only get 30p, you know what I mean, did the SOA based on current guidance) and the guy said as I had not tried to hide anything (didn't actually have anything!!!!), had not tried to skank the OR by claiming mad amounts and I didn't have any dodgy 'just sold to my 14 year old son - one 5 bedroomed house' he'd leave the IVA as is

 

Got letter last Tuesday to tell me they (OR) considering early discharge - bigger result

 

I cannot speak for everyone but getting those call centres off my back, stopping the threatening letters and, almost secondary, massivly reducing my debt was well worth the £500 - remember, I had nowt - no house, no car (was on HP and went back) no savings etc... so I had nowt to lose really... I empathise with anyone with a lot of assets - family home etc and I doubt you will have the same reaction to BR as me, but if you tough it out you may feel the benefits far sooner than you can imagine - not a nice thing to lose your home, however, you may be able to privately rent or go housing association and clear that massive debt - I don't know, never been in that situation - just trying to point out that whilst I feel I benefited from BR it may not suit everyone

 

I was a member of another forum where I posted a similar (but less tactful) post about how I felt - I feel great, a massive weight has been removed from my shoulders - the BR process may seem daunting but the staff I encountered were great and helpful (more importantly - non-judgemental) - I feel FREE!!! and for the first time in 4 years I am looking forwards to Christmas (a cash one this year - no credit cards) and, most importantly I HAVE LEARNT MY LESSON!!!!! but I was absolutely crucified for saying this (as I said, I was less tactful - woohoo, all the bailiffs can kiss my @rse - SOA to the max - but I was just expressing how I now feel) I am NOT ASHAMED to be a BR - not a badge I wear prominently, but not one I hide either - I messed up - don't we all at some stage..

 

I'm rambling now - I found the experience humiliating at first, relief after the first couple of weeks and empowering now - I am not being harrassed, threatened or lied to by Debt Recovery Agencies and, when they do contact me I tell them to contact the OR then put the phone down...

 

However - a bit of advice sought now.... Hutchinson 3G have refused to register with the OR as an interested creditor, keep sending me bills and threatening legal action - I sent them OR and BR details but, as yet, they haven't contacted the OR - what happens if they don't, can I produce my BR document at a court hearing (if it gets that far) and tell the judge I told them to contact OR? What would happen when I am discharged - could they try and take me to court or am I right in thinking debts before my BR date are inclusive (except usual - council tax and student loan?) in my BR?

 

Any advice welcome

[toddle2u]

all the bailiffs can kiss my @rse

 

They most certainly can and good luck to you.

 

I am NOT ASHAMED to be a BR - not a badge I wear prominently, but not one I hide either - I messed up - don't we all at some stage..

 

That is exactly as you should feel, you have done nothing wrong you are not a criminal. You are now able to get your life back on track and enjoy it without the hassle

 

right in thinking debts before my BR date are inclusive

 

Yes you are right and thi sincludes 3G. Speak to the OR and get hem to deal with them. IF it ever got to court just produce your Bankruptcy Order.

 

Again Good Luck for the future

[Rachie1973]

Thanks for all that My husband is at the humiliated stage but I'm going to show him your post to hopefully make him feel a bit more human again.

[Dodgy Geezer]

Im really pleased for you. i couldnt stop smiling as i read it.

Yes it can be a very daunting experience, but one that can liberate you in no other way.

If Hutchinson refuse to cooperate, dont worry, if you have registered them as a creditor, its their problem. Ignore them. You are however liable for any debts incurred after your BR. Council Tax prior to BR can also be included.

Enjoy your life, nobody has anything to be ashamed of.

[Jan4a]

I have a friend who is actually an insolvency administrator working for a firm of chartered accountants/Licensed Insolvency practitioners. She deals with IVA's day in/day out and has done so for 20 years. She got in a mess after her divorce and her debts spiralled and she ended up doing an IVA through another firm.

 

She felt really humiliated as well - she says if anyone should have known better its her, but its circumstances that life throws at you sometimes, with a divorce and then a credit crunch and no-one giving remortgages you really aren't left with a choice. She says the relief is huge!! She's paying back 100p in the pound but she has breathing space and debts have stopped spiralling.

[tifo]

good post BUT this would not be the same for someone who has lost their home/car/everything else. Of course, someone with no assets would have nothing to worry about.

[sillygirl1]

I am still considering taking this route, interesting to see how much was taken after 'reasonable living expenses', that is one of my worries, I would hate to be in one of those "3 year" deals, which sounds like an official IVA rather than BR.

 

However its all gone quiet at the moment so if I can hang on another four months three more bills will be paid off (legitimate ones, where they have frozen the interest and charges). That will then leave the alleged mortgage shortfall (company in administration so only 2 chasing letters received this year, both replied to saying "You haven't replied to last years request - til then sod off..."

 

By the time my credit file is clear I will be close to retirement so I'm not overly worried. If I loose my current job and can't get another one due to dodgy credit file then so be it - I will then go BR for sure. Not much chance of loosing it at the moment but you never know what will happen come April and even more budget cuts at work.

 

Your story is very enlightening, and you are not 'getting away with it' or anything else, some people need to have a 'moral readjustment' and read the 10 Commandments and the 7 Deadly Sins, if everyone used those as basic guidelines then there would be a whole lot less trouble in the world.

[vespapx125]

I think I stated that this was not for everyone and whilst I am happy (now) in my bankruptcy I did mention that I was unsure if I would have taken this route if I had more to lose...

 

I don't think I was cavalier with money, 2 divorces means 2x starting again (furniture, white goods etc, deposits for flats etc) and that was my downfall - just get sorted and meet, marry and divorce another headcase -start again

 

My ex's ended up with all my assets so when it came to the crunch and the big bad wolfs were banging on the door there was nowt left for them to take - I agree, easy for me, less easy for some others

 

But, for me, getting the hounds called off meant more than getting out of debt

[removingtheshackles]

I've been considering this route on & off for last 4 years. £35k worth of debt, no assets to show for it. I work, have a small family, rent & drive a V reg fiesta. Nothing worth taking. I have my pride but am humble enough to admit I screwed up. Whole thing about BR terrifies me but I can't see any other way out. Were you as indecissive? What convinced you in the end that this was right? What worries me is that I'm registered with the Nursing & Midwifery Council. Very concerned that this would have implications on my job although I'm on the frontline & not pushing a pen as a manager & juggling finances & budgets. Any advice gratefully received...

[sillygirl1]

removingtheshackles - you may not be aware but the nursing union has funds available to help people in your situation, they should have a Unison adviser available for you to talk to. Plus the hospital/health authority you work for should have a fund to help 'distressed nurses'. I know the hospital I used to work for had plenty of help for nurses but none for other staff.

 

As far as the NMC goes you should check on their website to see if they have any help/advice. I don't think the BR rules stop you from being a nurse.

 

I am still indecisive as I don't want to have one of these three year attachments that I keep hearing they are dishing out now. I'm on a far better salary than I was 3 years ago and am slowly climbing out of debt. Should be clear by the New Year if things go the way they are.

 

Hope the above helps

[vespapx125]

I'm a Tier 3 Drug Worker for the NHS - Surgery and Community based - had no problems - I think it's if you are involved in financial management (bank manager - loan consultant etc) but as silly said, just check the website - I'm Unison but not registered nurse (though thinking of doing my Psychatric Nursing Degree at end of IVA - Nurse Prescriber - next career development move - already got RCGP Part 1 Prescribing CD)

 

I think, if I remember right, criminal convictions and incompetency are the only two areas they can hold you to account on - being sh*t with money isn't a crime (well, not any more) and when I went BR they never contacted my employer anyway, just wanted my wage slips (Moonbeaver Solicitors) to ensure I earned what I said and to check if the nil tax code was included yet (don't ask, I have no idea about that, it lasts until the end of the financial year or until you move jobs - I moved jobs 5 weeks after BR so nil tax code was defunct)

 

Hope you get it sorted, as silly said - RCN/UNISON etc normally have advisors and perhaps a fund that you could apply to - not sure

 

Cheers

Gaz

[removingtheshackles]

Thank you sillygirl & Gaz. I'm employed as a midwife by my Trust so will see if there's support there for midwives as well as nurses. Stupidly, I'm not with Unison or RCM because ironically I can't afford the subscriptions. Have only in last few days found out I can get tax relief for this so will join asap. I've done a little bit of research on NMC site http://www.nmc-uk.org/aDisplayDocument.aspx?documentID=4186 This is from May 2008.

 

However is it not breaking DPA if creditors complain to NMC?

 

Also in direct contrast, I've found legislation The Nursing and Midwifery Council (Constitution) Order 2008 No. 2553 which came into effect 6 October 2008 (see Part 2, 5. (e)

[removingtheshackles]

sorry, pressed enter too soon...

 

It's confusing & so I will get in touch with NMC for clarification & post on here as may be useful to others.

 

Good luck to you both & thank you very much for your input!

[vespapx125]

It really doesn't read well - wonder why midwifery is under the BR rules equivellent of a Company Director - seems a bit harsh does that - for those who have no idea what we are on about I shall endevour to copy and paste: Midwifery Rules

 

Disqualification from appointment as a member

 

5. A person is disqualified from appointment as a member of the Council if that person—

(a) has at any time been convicted of an offence involving dishonesty or deception in the United Kingdom and the conviction is not a spent conviction;

(b) has at any time been convicted of an offence in the United Kingdom, and—

(i) the final outcome of the proceedings was a sentence of imprisonment or detention, and

(ii) the conviction is not a spent conviction;

© has at any time been removed—

(i) from the office of charity trustee or trustee for a charity by an order made by the Charity Commissioners, the Charity Commission or the High Court on the grounds of any misconduct or mismanagement in the administration of the charity—

(aa) for which the person was responsible or to which the person was privy, or

(bb) which the person by their conduct contributed to or facilitated, or

(ii) under—

(aa) section 7 of the Law Reform (Miscellaneous Provisions) (Scotland) Act 1990(5) (powers of Court of Session to deal with management of charities), or

(bb) section 34(5)(e) of the Charities and Trustee Investment (Scotland) Act 2005(6) (powers of the Court of Session),

from being concerned with the management or control of any body;

(d) has at any time been removed from office as the chair, member, convenor or director of any public body on the grounds, in terms, that it was not in the interests of, or conducive to the good management of, that body that the person should continue to hold that office;

(e) at any time has been adjudged bankrupt or sequestration of the person’s estate has been awarded, and—

(i) the person has not been discharged, or

(ii) the person is the subject of a bankruptcy restrictions order or an interim bankruptcy restrictions order under Schedule 4A to the Insolvency Act 1986(7) (bankruptcy restrictions order and undertaking);

(f) has at any time made a composition or arrangement with, or granted a trust deed for, the person’s creditors and the person has not been discharged in respect of it;

(g) is subject to—

(i) a disqualification order or disqualification undertaking under the Company Directors Disqualification Act 1986(8),

(ii) a disqualification order under Part II of the Companies (Northern Ireland) Order 1986(9),

(iii) a disqualification undertaking under the Company Directors Disqualification (Northern Ireland) Order 2002(10), or

(iv) an order made under section 429(2) of the Insolvency Act 1986 (disabilities on revocation of a county court administration order);

(h) has been included by—

(i) the Independent Barring Board in a barred list (within the meaning of the Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 2006(11) or the Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups (Northern Ireland) Order 2007(12)), or

(ii) the Scottish Ministers in the children’s list or the adults’ list (within the meaning of the Protection of Vulnerable Groups (Scotland) Act 2007(13));

(i) has at any time been subject to any investigation or proceedings concerning the person’s fitness to practise by any licensing body, the final outcome of which was—

(i) the person’s erasure from a register held by the licensing body or a decision that had the effect of preventing the person from practising the profession licensed or regulated by the licensing body,

(ii) the person’s suspension from a register held by the licensing body, and that suspension has not been terminated, or

(iii) a decision that had the effect of only allowing the person to practise that profession subject to conditions, and those conditions have not been lifted;

(j) has at any time been subject to any investigation or proceedings concerning the person’s fitness to practise by the Council, or by any body that regulated registered nurses or registered midwives before the Council, in the course of which or where the final outcome has been that—

(i) the person has been removed from or struck off the register (for a reason connected to the person’s fitness to practise),

(ii) the person’s registration in the register has been suspended (including by an interim suspension order) and that suspension has not been terminated,

(iii) the person’s registration in the register has been made conditional upon their compliance with any requirement (including an interim conditions of practice order) and that requirement has not been lifted, or

(iv) the person’s registration in the register has been annotated by virtue of a caution order and that order is still in force;

(k) has at any time been subject to any investigation or proceedings relating to an allegation that the person’s entry in the register was fraudulently procured, the final outcome of which was the removal of the person’s entry in the register;

(l) is or has at any time been subject to any investigation or proceedings concerning the person’s fitness to practise by—

(i) any licensing body, or

(ii) the Council,

and the Privy Council is satisfied that the person’s membership of the Council would be liable to undermine public confidence in the regulation of the nursing and midwifery professions; or

(m) has at any time been convicted of an offence elsewhere than in the United Kingdom and the Privy Council is satisfied that the person’s membership of the Council would be liable to undermine public confidence in the regulation of the nursing and midwifery professions.

 

I would seriously consider an alternative to BR reading this, I am no expert but I am sure there may well be others on here who may be able to read this in a more legal way - it just sounds very Draconian for a profession that has very little, if any, financial dealings

 

I was a registered FDAP professional (Federation of Drug and Alcohol Practitioners) and I don't think we had these rules (I hope not anyway) but I've lapsed membership since coming into the public sector so will need to read the rules again if I decide to re-register

 

Get yourself unionized and make enquiries with whoever you pay your subs to (as I said, I'm Unison) as I know there are some unions that offer free legal advice and low interest unsecured loans, whilst this is another debt perhaps debt consolidation to pay off majority of creditors may be a way forward (watch out for the high interest sharks who advertise on the telly), IVA or Debt Management Plan (Phone CCCS - Google them - Consumer Credit Counselling Service) they may be able to sort a payment plan out - failing that they are excellent resource for advice

 

You can get a 60min free legal consultation at most solicitors - call some local ones - call your local Official Reciever's office - or the Consumer Helpline (the Government one - don't phone at 1755 as they want to burger off home and are not interested)

 

Hope some of this helps - keep us informed will you?

 

Gaz

[removingtheshackles]

Thanks again for your help.

 

I've been in touch with the CCCS & National Debtline neither of which have been able to help me on the NMC side of things. Interestingly, CCCS recommend I go bankrupt having done their 'Debt Remedy' budget.

 

The order & the NMC guidance are contradictory & I have now emailed the NMC for further guidance. I will post once I find out more.

 

It does seem harsh treatment, particularly as my debts predate my registration! I suppose it's because we're in the public eye & being bankrupt is seen to be damaging to the public's perception of our profession.

 

Does anyone know if & when I do file for bankruptcy, would the OR take over my daughter's savings account for which I am Trustee? There's about £150 in there.

 

Thank you again!

[removingtheshackles]

News from the NMC at last... The Constitution Order from 2008 relates to members appointed to the council & not individual nurses & midwives. The NMC position on bankruptcy & NMC registrants is as detailed on this link http://www.nmc-uk.org/aDisplayDocument.aspx?documentID=4186

 

With this now no longer hanging over my head, I can now look to removing the shackles for real & although not a step taken lightly, can look forward to removing that noose from around my neck.

 

Thank you Gaz for showing that there is life after bankruptcy!

[homespun]

ive been through the same as you.

 

nothing to hide told them everything and have now been br for nearly 4 months.

 

it takes a lot of of your mind and a fresh start will get here soon.

 

if you have nothing they cant take nothing.

 

i was some 90000 in debt.

not all my own doing in fact most was 1 debt that i wont go into.

 

if you feel that you can put up with all the form filling and the phone call to the or,then go for it.

 

everyone from the person at the court to the or, were very very helpfull and they all listend to what i had to say and never once made me feel bad about doing it.

 

i had been taking advice from ndhl for ages and also the bdhl.both were very help full indeed.

 

in fact the women at the court could not have been more helpfull to me.

 

happy days

 

alan

[LEONABLUE]

i went br in 2005,and was clear in 6 months, the or was soooo nice,so was the judge,he told me not to worry about nething ne more!! as was said before a weight was lifted,it took me a good 6 months to actually go for the br,shame and all the other feelings that go with it. will say tho that its not for every1. i had nothing so didnt lose nething,

the funny thing was some dca's,one creditor "sold" a debt 5 times to different dca's, rang the or every time i received threatening letter,her reaction was "not again"! or told me i could have some "fun",this is what happened,

dca--are you going to pay nething today?

leona--noooooo

dca---tomorrow?

leona---noooooo

dca----got a credit or debit card?

leona--nooooooo

dca---are you going to pay this debt?

leona--nooooooo

dca----you really must pay your debts,its not good enough

leona--i'll have a hard job

dca---why is that?

leona---im bankrupt,want the number of my br

dca---- oh!

leona--- goodbye!

 

did this a couple of times,the or said that the creditor and the dca could have action taken against them if they continued "harrassment"

 

i was also acting as "trustee" on my granddaughters bank account(she was only 3 yrs old) the or told me to take the bank book to the bank,withdraw the pounds and leave the pence in,as the money was not mine.

am now enjoying life,its now so much simpler

[Rachie1973]

Its been ok for my hubby as well. Judge was brilliant, OR fab as well. We had to seperate all the business and personal stuff, but OR had to cancel 2 appts due to illness, so gave us time to provide literally, way more than they needed.

 

Hubby's appt took less than an hour, because we'd dropped the paperwork in earlier, and apparently she reckoned it was a personal record for her!

 

He's been allowed to keep his bank account, and they've left his fishing gear alone.

 

She reckons a discharge could be really quick since theres nothing funny in his bankruptcy. Its worked for us.

[Dodgy Geezer]

Im pleased for everybody that is finding relief from the pressures of debt, through bankruptcy.

 

Bankruptcy is nothing to be ashamed of.

 

It seems even bankruptcy modernises with the times.

 

Good Luck.

[gallygaskins]

good post BUT this would not be the same for someone who has lost their home/car/everything else. Of course, someone with no assets would have nothing to worry about.

 

You say that, just be wary of the council. I thought I was ok. Went BR in May, then 5 months on I get a demand from the bailiffs for £2500 for NDR that formed part of my BR. According to my Examiner they have every right to do it. So now I feel like I'm back to square one. I am not a happy bunny. (PS I have posted my own thread up so not hijacking this one ) I just want people to be aware of this!

[out of cash]

are you saying a debt that was included in you br petition is still being collected upon?

 

forgive me if i am reading this wrong.

 

regards

 

out of cash

[refusenik]

Bankruptcy is the best was to get out of debt if you've no assets. You can get your life back almost immediately. Compare that to years of struggle and toil.

 

I too felt overjoyed when I wrote off all that debt that the banks foisted upon me. The more people that revel in their bankruptcy status, the more it erodes the stimga of bankruptcy.

[out of cash]

very well said refusenik

[LEONABLUE]

i just like the reaction from dca's,when they're told they cant get any money lol,they cannot threaten me anymore,! i just "threaten" them with the or,