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that should do, I would have added that according to CPUTR2008 and DPA 1998 they have no legal or lawful right to involve a third party in this matter whilst in dispute according to CCA 78(6). Hence I do not recognise their role or involvement and I will not respond again until the dispute is resolved.


the imortant thing though is that you stood up to them, most of the time these clowns are just looking for easy prey.

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All is quiet on the 1st credit and LCS front, apart from a copy of their complaints procedure which popped through my letterbox on Saturday, I have had no acknowledgement of any letters they have received from me!

I did get a reply from the OFT, saying

'We will take into account the further information you have helpfully given us as we continue to monitor this trader’s fitness to hold a credit licence. Thank you once again for taking the time to write to us about this matter'

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  • 2 weeks later...


Today, I received a final response from 1st credit, thanking me for my letter of the 29th October and my email dated 6th November (I actually sent the email to LCS so I don't know if they have slipped up there!) and they state that they have contacted Citi for a copy of my agreement and on receipt of said document, it shall be then forwarded to myself.

It then goes on to say, that they are fully aware that they cannot enforce a debt until the CCA has been adhered to. CITI states that altough currently unenforceable, the debt remains due and payable.

Then, it goes on to say that they are unaware of any legislation that states a default or data that is believed to be correct must be removed whilst a cca request is being dealt with. In fact I would refer you to the recent court case of PHILIP McGUFFICK V ROYAL BANK OF SCOTLAND, where the court concluded that reporting information to the credit reference agencies does not constitute enforcement.

With response to my request to cease processeing my data, they point out that I have not specified upon which ground I rely for my notice under S10 of the data protection act. Therefore they do not consider this valid; furthermore this is not a valid request as it falls under the exemption in schedule 2 section 2(a) of the act.

Should they receive correspondence from any of the regulatory bodies we shall respond to them accordingly.

During the interim your account shall remain on hold pending a response from Citi.

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McGuffick does not apply to defaults it applies to non payment of ongoing agreements and reporting when said agreement cannot be found


1st are a pain in the butt with the dpa. THe only way to deal with them is to write to the company secretary on an or else basis and then follow that up with an N1. It is they who are supposed to jsutify processing no the other way round. There is no point conversing at the level any letter will be sent - they just want to play silly buggers or at least that's what they did with me.

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Well now's the time HB ;)

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.


Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.


If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.


I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...


<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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Well now's the time HB ;)



Yeh I know but they shut up and went away and I have enough to deal with plus I dont need (or could) get credit anyway so I let them think that a bit of cra nonsense is a fair swop for 11 grand that they cannot enforce.


Hopefully, in a few months I can apply to have the cra stuff removed on the grounds that the alledged creditor is no longer a going concern:D.

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  • 8 months later...

OH MY GOD!!! 1st credit have repiled with A CCA from a Citi and BMIbaby card agreement date on top 01 05 08. Its just a load of photocopied papers.

And the covering letter says:

Please find enclosed a true copy of your agreement enclosed.

The document provided is compliant to the consumer credit(cancellation notices and copies of documents) regulations 1983 which we are obliged to adhere to. Specifically I would refer you to regulation 3(2) which states the agreement is not required to be an exact replica of the original document but may omit certain information including any signature box, signature, or date of signature.

We would now respectfully request you contact our offices to recommence repayment of this debt.

I took this card out long before 2008, and not one piece of paper includes my signature. What should I do now?

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you very nicely send them this..







Dear Sir/Madam


Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.


You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.


On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. This was signed for as delivered on the **DATE**

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE** (12+2 days after you made the initial request).


The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.


Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you/your client enters into a default situation.


This limit has expired.


As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:


If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)


(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.


Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.


As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8


(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'


(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'


Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.


Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.


Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.


This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.


It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.


Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.


Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.


The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.


* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.


I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.


I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.


I look forward to hearing from you in writing.


Yours faithfully

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  • 3 weeks later...

basically you need send nothing...i would entertain their nonsense no more...playing letter table tennis is a waste of time now..either they are going to initiate court proceedings or not..my guess..not...if they were they would have done it a long time ago....quit playing their game and ignore em...you have made your position perfectly clear end of.....

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as a matter of interest deb4get

you have obviously had a lot of success in getting your creditors to go away due to unenforceable CCA's.


I would love to be able to be in that position as we have been dealing with this now for about 5 years in total. (our business originally hit problems and we had to use the cc's to keep afloat).


A couple of the creditors (and they are all cc's) have gone away when we asked for original cca's but some have been a lot more aggressive. Some of them have been very reasonable and one has even kept the account open and kept the credit limit to a sensible level but there are a few that have been total and utter demons.


Any advice you can give would be most welcomed and appreciated.


With FC for example I want to be forewarned with knowledge if they do take legal action.


Also my wife and I are both weary from having to keep fighting off creditors.


Thankfully our business has now turned the corner and we are hopeful that it wont be long before we can go to all of our creditors and make offers of say 10-15p in the pound, send them full and final settlement cheques and letters and then haggle with them to reach agreeable settlements i f they dont cash the chequesas we do not want to just run away from our obligations.


Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.

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i agree its when dca's actually get aggressive that it starts to get to people and they sometimes find their way here..where we hope we can educate people in to how these parasites work...i think in the beginning everyone is frightened of whether they will take court action or not...its a worry i think you have to get over...they very rarely if ever initiate court action..the threats and intimidation seem to do the trick quite nicely for them...if they want to take you too court then they have to be pretty sure its gonna be worth it and that they have the correct paperwork...99 times out of 100 they dont....you seem to be doing the right thing at the moment..if you have been dealing with it for 5 years another year and its gonna drop off your credit rating anyway....i was lucky as these parasites didnt have the correct paperwork...from their i just sent letters account in dispute and its now been years since i heard anything...mostly i dont now respond to the threats...i make my position clear..end of...

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that is very encouraging to know. Thank you.


Although I havent had time to be active on the forums (been busy keeping the ship afloat and tryng to keepp bread on the table) my wife and I have been hugely grateful to the contributors who make excellent letters available as this is where we have got most of our knowledge from in our fight with the cc Co's.


In fact we are now helping to run a debt solutions charity and are helping other people where we can from the knowledge we have gained over the last 5 years. We offer free money advice to people and I sit on the committee. So its not all been bad and we wanted to use the experience we have gained to help others.


I will just leave this then and post to the other thread I started as and when other letteres come from them.


Huge thanks again.

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  • 4 months later...

I have been receiving letters off these cretins again, one was a blank standing order form saying that they are willing to accept any payment I make to them, as long as I keep up my payment proposals, and another letter saying that they have been checking my credit report and noticed some activity on it..... I don't think so seeing as nobody in their right minds would probably give me credit now after these shallow barstools have probably thrashed my credit rating!

Just gonna get filed in the bin!

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