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    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
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    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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Reader V M&S

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Hi All, I am in dispute with M&S as they have only provided one side of an application form via CCA request and SAR request, this is their response....


"Please note that the application and agreement forms are one and the same. Above your signature on the form returned to us, a statement reads "This is a credit agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, Sign it only if you want to be bound by its terms."


The agreement is a single document in more than one piece. However, even if this were not so, section 61(1)(b) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 requires that the signed document embody all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms.


Section 198(4) of the Act provides that a document embodies terms if they are set out in that document or are in another document referred to in it. Either way, the agreement your client signed confirmed to the requirements of the Act". (I think they are confused as I am the client ;))


Are they trying to confuse me?


My argument with this on numerous occasions has been


  • No Prescribed Terms = does not comply with s61(1)(a). That makes it improperly executed.
  • Improperly Executed = can only be enforced by a Court because of s65.


I can't seem to get through to them, it's like talking to a brick wall.


Comments gratefully received.


Thanks Reader


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Hello there Reader. Let me guess, does your letter also say it has been reviewed by their legal team? Or did that only happen to me because I felt the need to educate them about how long they have to comply with the Consumer Credit Act request?


Anyway, I understand that brick wall feeling. However all we can do is keep on plugging away at them with letters. I was about to send one to them referring to the judgement about the prescribed terms having to be in the "four corners of the agreement". I found a very good post with some appropriate words here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/212597-querty1230-help-agreement-please.html#post2407952.


Have you also heard from Collect Direct UK, or are you still paying? They are going to get another one of the "go away DCA this account is in dispute" letters from me soon.

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Hi IanHL yes they said that their legal team believe it to be and enforceable document but I suppose the key word there is "believe".


Sometimes I think I have bitten off more than I can chew, juggling all balls up in the air as I decided to take on mine and my hubbys creditors in one swoop!

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Sometimes I think I have bitten off more than I can chew, juggling all balls up in the air as I decided to take on mine and my hubbys creditors in one swoop!


Yes I have that feeling as well! Nine of my own creditors (including one claiming mis-selling of a GAP policy) plus a running battle with Welcome on behalf of my partner. I need to do a mass scanning session sometime soon then I can start my own threads for each of these.


Best of luck with your battles.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi an update.


Letter received with the following from a debt collectors with the following paragraph....


"The Ministry of Justice and the OFT have recently issued a consumer alert, warning people of the risks of being mislead over the enforceability of consumer credit agreements. We therefore strongly recommend you now seek legal advice if you intend to rely any further on the alleged breach of any of the acts that govern this account, pertaining to your liability to our client, as your current understanding is inaccurate. We confirm that a copy of this letter and previous correspondence will be made available to the courts and all governing bodies upon their request.


In the circumstances, we will not be entering into further protracted correspondence and request the you remit your proposals for settlement of this debt within 5 days from the date of this letter, together with a payment on account. Failure to do so will lead to further action being taken for recover of the above amount, as per our client's instructions."


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The OFT/ MoJ document that they refer to concerns agencies that have been set up which allegedly can resolve your debt problems by finding that your credit agreements are all unenforceable - put another way agencies that do for you (for a fee) nothing that you couldnt do through this site. And, if you read around, you will find that while I suppose some are ok, some are very far from OK, taking money up front and doing very little for it. You know, I wouldnt be surprised if some DCAs werent behind some of these organizations - I mean either they get paid for collecting the debt or get paid for making it unenforceable! Cant lose.

Just another threat

I am not sure whether the letter is connected to the M&S account that you began the thread on, but if it is, you suggest in your first post that there are no prescribed terms. In that case the account isnt enforceable only on the order of a court. If there are no prescribed terms anywhere in the "agreement" they have sent you, even a court cannot enforce it (see 127(3)) In that case they are stuffed - though that's not to say they will give up.

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