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    • One other point to note, the more I read, the more I study, the more proficient I feel I am becoming in this area. Make no mistake DBCL if you are reading this, when I win in court, if I have the grounds to make any claims against you, such as breach of GDPR, I shall be doing so.
    • Yep, I read that and thought about trying to find out what the consideration and grace period is at Riverside but not sure I can. I know they say "You must tell us the specific consideration/grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is"  but I doubt they would disclose it to the public, maybe I should have asked in my CPR 31.14 letter? Yes, I think I can get rid of 5 minutes. I am also going to include a point about BPA CoP: 13.2 The reference to a consideration period in 13.1 shall not apply where a parking event takes place. I think that is Deception .... They giveth with one hand and taketh away with the other!
    • Six months of conflict have also taken a heavy economic toll.View the full article
    • the Town and Country [advertisments ] Regulations 2007 are not easy to understand. Most Council planing officials don't so it's good that you found one who knows. Although he may not have been right if the rogues have not been "controlling" in the car park for that long. The time only starts when the ANPR signs go up, not how long the area has been used as a car park.   Sadly I have checked Highview out and they have been there since at least 2014 . I have looked at the BPA Code of Practice version 8 which covers 2023 and that states Re Consideration and Grace Periods 13.3 Where a parking location is one where a limited period of parking is permitted, or where drivers contract to park for a defined period and pay for that service in advance (Pay & Display), this would be considered as a parking event and a Grace Period of at least 10 minutes must be added to the end of a parking event before you issue a PCN. It then goes on to explain a bit more further down 13.5 You must tell us the specific consideration/grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is. 13.6 Neither a consideration period or a grace period are periods of free parking and there is no requirement for you to offer an additional allowance on top of a consideration or grace period. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________So you have  now only overstayed 5 minutes maximum since BPA quote a minimum of 10 minutes. And it may be that the Riverside does have a longer period perhaps because of the size of the car park? So it becomes even more incumbent on you to remember where the extra 5 minutes could be.  Were you travelling as a family with children or a disabled person where getting them in and out of the car would take longer. Was there difficulty finding a space, or having to queue to get out of the car park . Or anything else that could account for another 5 minutes  without having to claim the difference between the ANPR times and the actual times.
    • Regarding a driver, that HAS paid for parking but input an incorrect Vehicle Registration Number.   This is an easy mistake to make, especially if a driver has access to more than one vehicle. First of all, upon receiving an NTK/PCN it is important to check that the Notice fully complies with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 before deciding how to respond of course. The general advice is NOT to appeal to the Private Parking Company as, for example, you may identify yourself as driver and in certain circumstances that could harm your defence at a later stage. However, after following a recent thread on this subject, I have come to the conclusion that, in the case of inputting an incorrect Vehicle Registration Number, which is covered by “de minimis” it may actually HARM your defence at a later stage if you have not appealed to the PPC at the first appeal stage and explained that you DID pay for parking and CAN provide proof of parking, it was just that an incorrect VRN was input in error. Now, we all know that the BPA Code of Practice are guidelines from one bunch of charlatans for another bunch of charlatans to follow, but my thoughts are that there could be problems in court if a judge decides that a motorist has not followed these guidelines and has not made an appeal at the first appeal stage, therefore attempting to resolve the situation before it reaches court. From BPA Code of Practice: Section 17:  Keying Errors B) Major Keying Errors Examples of a major keying error could include: • Motorist entered their spouse’s car registration • Motorist entered something completely unrelated to their registration • Motorist made multiple keying errors (beyond one character being entered incorrectly) • Motorist has only entered a small part of their VRM, for example the first three digits In these instances we would expect that such errors are dealt with appropriately at the first appeal stage, especially if it can be proven that the motorist has paid for the parking event or that the motorist attempted to enter their VRM or were a legitimate user of the car park (eg a hospital patient or a patron of a restaurant). It is appreciated that in issuing a PCN in these instances, the operator will have incurred charges including but not limited to the DVLA fee and other processing costs therefore we believe that it is reasonable to seek to recover some of these costs by making a modest charge to the motorist of no more than £20 for a 14-day period from when the keying error was identified before reverting to the charge amount at the point of appeal. Now, we know that the "modest charge" is unenforceable in law, however, it would be up to the individual if they wanted to pay and make the problem go away or in fact if they wanted to contest the issue in court. If the motorist DOES appeal to the PPC explaining the error and the PPC rejects the appeal and the appeal fails, the motorist can use that in his favour at court.   Defence: "I entered the wrong VRN by mistake Judge, I explained this and I also submitted proof of payment for the relevant parking period in my appeal but the PPC wouldn't accept that"   If the motorist DOES NOT appeal to the PPC in the first instance the judge may well use that as a reason to dismiss the case in the claimant's favour because they may decide that they had the opportunity to resolve the matter at a much earlier stage in the proceedings. It is my humble opinion that a motorist, having paid and having proof of payment but entering the wrong VRN, should make an appeal at the first appeal stage in order to prevent problems at a later stage. In this instance, I think there is nothing to be gained by concealing the identity of the driver, especially if at a later stage, perhaps in court, it is said: “I (the driver) entered the wrong VRN.” Whether you agree or not, it is up to the individual to decide …. but worth thinking about. Any feedback, especially if you can prove to the contrary, gratefully received.
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OPC - Ingress Park


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I have read the previous posts about OPC and the tactics private companies...but would still like to run this past everyone.

 

My wife and I moved into Ingress Park about a month ago, and we have one allocated bay for our two-bedroom flat. We were told by the previous tenant that the other car could park in the visitors bays without any problem. Today, 5 weeks later for the first time - my wife received a parking ticket at 3am for parking in a visitor's bay. The property management company were supposed to give us "scratchcard" visitor's parking permits (at a limit of 10 per month) - but we have not received any.

My wife is nervous about not paying OPC, but I am outraged simply because we have not been issued with the appropriate parking permits, and because the management company have not taken into account households with more than one car. The underground car park in question is never full, and has plenty of visitor parking bays.

 

What should we do? I am sorely tempted to tell them to stuff it. We are both NHS workers, commuting to various hospitals at all hours - which of course doesn't excuse us from obeying the rules - but I can't see why OPC don't have a list of residents to check against anyone parking in visitor's bays. Well, actually I do see why - they want to make money.

 

But anyway - to be frank - do we ignore the ticket, and any subsequent tickets? Or pay up? I partly feel like we should have been proactive and this is our fault, but part of me thinks OPC are just out for money. We never signed anything with our letting agency, or landlord to say we would be at the mercy of OPC. It's put a downer on our new move to be honest. Would appreciate all comments...

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Hi Jeeves

 

Exactly same boat from you, we moved into the Bridge 10 mins away from you and the estate agent lied to our faces about parking. The parking enforcements come into play in a couple of weeks.

 

Ignore the invoice, it's not a ticket and they can't fine you. Bridge are copying exactly what your site and waterstone are doing. 10 visitor passes a month??? Are you not allowed to have friends over often? It's a joke and I hate these developments with a passion.

 

I regret the day I moved to this place!

I love CAG!

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Thanks for your help guys!

 

Sorry to hear you are in the same boat Lihi, my wife has already uttered words to the effect that she wants to move next year without a doubt due to this. It's a shame as the development is nice - it's just that they ballsed up the parking. Why can't they just use common sense? I wouldn't be opposed to paying for a residents permit that allowed me to park in any bay.

 

Anyway - I am happy for a fight, so my wife is going to park in our allocated bay and she has told me to knock myself out and get as many tickets as I like!

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Hi Jeeves

 

Now my rant is over and I can see through the red I'll try and help you out some more.

 

I've attached a doc which is produced and managed by our local council which lists every public road under their management. Unfortunately it's listed by road so you will have to check every road individually. PPC's cannot cover roads which are in this doc, if they do phone the parking office at DBC who will blow them out of the water. I can't remember exactly when IP was finished but it takes about 5/6 years from completion until it's passed over to the LA.

 

Also, what's the signage like in your carpark where you're being issued with these invoices? Take photo's now ASAP preferably with the date in the corner and keep hold of them, keep taking photo's regularly, noting any changes in signage. Double check your tenancy contract and info and make sure you keep hold of them indefinitely in the event debt collection cretins rear their ugly heads in a few years.

 

It's unlikely the invoices will go further than letters but just in case they do it's good to keep a record.

 

Good luck!!

KentHighwaysGazetteerreportAugust09.pdf

I love CAG!

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If you receive a ticket from an Independent Enforcement Agency, you have two options:

 

1. Pay immediately and discharge your liability

2. Lodge an appeal

 

If you clearly broke the rules, then option 1 is the best for all concerned.

 

Ignoring your financial responsibilities as suggested above is a very rash thing to do, and will only land you in front of a judge in the end.

 

Absolute [EDIT]

Edited by Rooster-UK
Language, Timothy!
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Hi Lihi,

 

I thought I replied earlier but must have forgotten to press submit...doh.

Found my road on the document you helpfully provided, so that is reassuring.

 

I also took some photos immediately - it was only when I was actually taking the pictures around the car park that I realised the signage was terrible. The only clear signs were three disabled parking signs, otherwise there is no clear signs saying you cannot park in a visitor's bay if you are not a resident. In fact, no signs at all saying you can't park there. So glad I took the pictures.

 

Sorry Albert, but if I pay OPC and discharge my liability they will return at 3am on another night and ticket either my wife/me for parking in the underground car park where we rent our flat. I can't afford £50 a day for parking, so I think I will just explain it to the judge - if it ever came down to it.

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If you receive a ticket from an Independent Enforcement Agency, you have two options:

 

1. Pay immediately and discharge your liability

2. Lodge an appeal

 

If you clearly broke the rules, then option 1 is the best for all concerned.

 

Ignoring your financial responsibilities as suggested above is a very rash thing to do, and will only land you in front of a judge in the end.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

There's always someone to come along most weekends to brighten up a dull day. I guess the PPCs don't work in the office at weekends so that's why they find time to post their jokes on here.

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If you receive a ticket from an Independent Enforcement Agency, you have two options:

 

1. Pay immediately and discharge your liability

2. Lodge an appeal

 

If you clearly broke the rules, then option 1 is the best for all concerned.

 

Ignoring your financial responsibilities as suggested above is a very rash thing to do, and will only land you in front of a judge in the end.

 

Dear Albert's post is all the proof anyone could ever want that you should never ever appeal. Thank you Albert for making it so clear to everyone. Nice to have you on our side.

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The funny thing is that Albert/Wayne/Tom/Dick/Harry does such an appalling job of trolling, it's utterly pointless - unless it's for our amusement.

 

Your rhetoric just shouts 'scamster'. If you really want to dupe people, I'd look at rewriting your posts so they sound genuine.

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Albert Springer has LEFT......... the building!

 

;)

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How funny. What a shame I missed Albert.

 

Anyway Jeeves, don't pay!! Don't forget I know where you live!! :D

 

Give the parking office a call at DBC, the lady I spoke to was matter of fact but very helpful.

 

The fact there is zero signage means they have no chance if they took it to court, don't shout at them too loud about it just in case they're tempted to put up signs. Just ignore them. Seriously, if there's no signage how are you expected to know there are restrictions. Complete jobsworths. Just claim ignorance if nothing has been signed on with your name on.

 

Funny thing is they'll do the exact the same thing here, they won't be putting up signage but they'll start and continue to invoice.

I love CAG!

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I'm not going to pay! I refuse! Plus, you know where I live...:p

 

Will give DBC a call when I can, but I'm so pleased I found this site and everyone on it who reassured me through their help. It's outrageous that this goes on, and this site is a total blessing to let people know they aren't breaking any laws and are being the victims of a huge con.

 

I am now parking in one of the many empty visitor spots, and awaiting my first ticket...with pleasure.

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Hello, all, I too live in the the recently named private estate. The vehicle registered to me received a PCN last night for parking in a visitor bay (the horror). How stupid of me to think it was reasonable to clear my garage and under the stairs cupboard! The charge notice had actually fallen off in the rain. I have lived here for three years now, and it has gradually got worse and worse. If you actually walk around the estate, you will notice the ratio of visitor bays vastly outweighs non-visitor bays, so in essence, there are probably over a hundred vacant bays by that rationale.

 

I also have not received any temporary permits. I tried getting some, but lets just say the site management is poor to say the least, and did not help. Do you think they actually want people to live here??

 

Jeeves, you must be near me so you will probably see the vast amounts of tickets on the cars leading out of the estate on the average morning. Do u think any of these neighbours are spending £50 a day to park outside their house? unlikely! You are in good (and vast) company!!

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I am also living on the same development, have been for a month and a half. I haven't heard anything about getting hold of parking permits...was wodnering if you knew how to get them.

I guess that if they don't make it easy to have a permit people will park in the VP bays and they get to ticket them...

Thanks

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Hi Bells

 

I am also living on the same development, have been for a month and a half. I haven't heard anything about getting hold of parking permits...was wodnering if you knew how to get them.

I guess that if they don't make it easy to have a permit people will park in the VP bays and they get to ticket them...

Thanks

 

Would assume your management company directly if you own, if you rent speak to your landlord. The management company (if as charming as mine) may refuse to issue you with anything as you're not know on their 'systems'.

I love CAG!

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Hello, all, I too live in the the recently named private estate. The vehicle registered to me received a PCN last night for parking in a visitor bay (the horror). How stupid of me to think it was reasonable to clear my garage and under the stairs cupboard! The charge notice had actually fallen off in the rain. I have lived here for three years now, and it has gradually got worse and worse. If you actually walk around the estate, you will notice the ratio of visitor bays vastly outweighs non-visitor bays, so in essence, there are probably over a hundred vacant bays by that rationale.

 

I also have not received any temporary permits. I tried getting some, but lets just say the site management is poor to say the least, and did not help. Do you think they actually want people to live here??

 

Jeeves, you must be near me so you will probably see the vast amounts of tickets on the cars leading out of the estate on the average morning. Do u think any of these neighbours are spending £50 a day to park outside their house? unlikely! You are in good (and vast) company!!

 

Hi Mickey

 

Did it really receive a PCN (issued from council employed/contracted wardens) or is it an invoice from a private parking company?

 

Same advice to you as Jeeves, go and take photos in the close vicinity surrounding where you received the 'love letter' for future reference. Let us know what you find.

I love CAG!

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Well 2 tickets so far...I thought I might collect them all and one day just plaster the outside of my car in them and see what the "warden" who turns up to ticket my car again would do...probably give me another ticket.:rolleyes:

 

Anyway, Bells999 - my wife says the number for OPC to get permits (or rather to get the form you have to fill in to get the permits) is - 0844 2640 711. My wife says the woman on the end is very rude if you ask her for backdated permits. We got the letter today that we need to fill in - but we aren't, because in the letter it states:

 

"By signing and returning the letter you acknowledge and accept the parking regulations being introduced. No permits will be issued to any household/dwelling unless OPC have in its possession a signed copy of the letter by the resident concerned. All further permits that are issued will be issued using the details provided."

 

So basically - we thought we are better off not signing it, and not getting any permits. It might be a worry for our genuine visitors if they get a ticket, but once we explain it to them - they aren't going to care.

 

And mickey, I did see a long line of cars ticketed once when I first moved in. But when I drove home yesterday - I was disappointed to see all the Visitors bays empty down the main street. So maybe some people are being fooled?

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you are correct. they are clearly trying to contract you. Plus if they had a valid contract with already they wouldn't need that term. Buts that is just their offer, you can counter offer by sending it back with your own ammendments, that includes deletions and additions. some fun there of you want but not probably not worth the effort. warn all your neighbours about that form. as they are making unilateral they have no chance anyway even if signed. but I still wouldn't sign it. OPC like all PPCs seems not to grasp the basics, oh thats right of the grasped the basics they would go out of business :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am a resident of one of the mentioned estates.

 

Im suprised by some of the comments.....how frustrating it is to finally be able to have visitors park on the estate and not have people blocking access to shared areas or infront of our gagrages/drives....i dont share the same view actually.

 

The problem is people dont accept responsibility. When i bought the property i checked my paperwork and it stated there were to be (if the management company chose) parking restrictions, unlike many others i suspect.

 

There are just too many cars per household, this allowance is not set by crest or peverel, but the government as a way to reduce cars on the road. Its frustrating but it is what it is.

 

The fact there is a parking problem and friends/visitors cant get into parking bays is partly down to the same people using these bays rather than their own gargages/parking and funnily enough now the tickets have come into force you can now park as there is ample vp's......funny that....where have all the cars gone then.....???

 

If you dont own and were told you could park where you liked by a previous resident, sorry but thats not correct, if i told you you could shoplift, it wouldnt mean that you could........

 

I could place a bet that 95% of people complaining are people who have more cars than their own parking allowance and are causing an inconvenience to the rest of the resident who do obey the parking regulations and need the vp's for their visitors!!!

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