Goldfish (now barclaycard - Cabot Stalling On Forwarding Cca What Should I Reply??

[exasperated]

Hello,

Cabot took my credit card debt from Goldfish (now barclaycard). I recieved this letter back today and wondered if anyone could suggest a template letter. I know it states that they will write to Barclaycard which I have already done but should they be processing my data without a contract between us.

Any suggestions/comments are appreciated.

Please see below (1) the letter from Cabot

 

(1)

 

[cerberusalert]

What did you ask them for? They are talking about a sar rather than a CCA request.

[BankFodder]

I don't see any problem here with this letter.they are asking Barclaycard for a copy of the CCA and I think that this is quite reasonable. the best thing to do is simply wait and see whether one is forthcoming from Barclays. The chances are that it won't be. I think it is now just wait and see. Send your SAR to the original creditors for the other information you want

[exasperated]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies, I sent them the template of the CAG site asking for copy of executed CCA, all papers relating to insurances and PPI, and copies of any brokers fee's etc....

I was trying to hurry them along as it is highly probable that they will use every tactic in the book not to forward the requested documents

Do you think I should wait and see what happens then.

Thanks

Exasp

[IdaInFife]

for ppi etc then this would require a sar to the oc

 

ida x

[havinastella]

Once again I shall express my opinion!

 

IF, Cabot say they have brought the debt and all legal requirements, WHY SHOULD WE HAVE TO SAR THE ORIGINAL CREDITOR??????

 

Surely, if we start sueing the new owner for the charges etc, they will stop 'buying' these debts!!!

 

If we have been informed that 'whatever DCA' now owns the debt, surely they own all rights that are brought against them!

 

Can someone please enlighten me?

 

Jogs

[IdaInFife]

where on this thread does it say that cabot say they have bought the debt?

 

ida x

[havinastella]

Ida,

 

they always do

 

JOgs

[exasperated]

Hi Jogs/Ida,

I have to agree with Jogs in that they are processing my data and collecting the payments after instructing me they took over the account. As this is the case then surely they should have receipt of my original CCA in order for them to do so.

I have done what they have said and wrote to Barclaycard who now own Goldfish to obtain the original CCA but I started this thread in order to pre-empt the 'runaround' which is sure to ensue.

i'll see if they provide the document, if not then I will send a sec 10 request,but if still no response then I was going to send them an edited version of a letter Ihad seen on another thread as follows........

 

 

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 10/09/2009 written in response to my request for a copy of my fully executed CC Agreement. Further to this I supply a notice served upon you under Section 10 Data Protection Act 1998 a copy of which is attached and enclose the required £10 statutory fee. ]

Should you decide not to issue the above please be aware of the following I take note that you claim authority to process my data under Schedule 2 Paragraph 2(a) of this Act and acknowledge that you claim no rights under any other subsection of this paragraph

Unfortunately I believe you to be confused as to your legal position in the matter and consider your response to be legally flawed and thus in breach of my Sec 10 request.

The next logical step should be for me to seek enforcement of the order under a civil Court action but I feel even at this late stage this is something which can be avoided were we to co-operate in the matter. This letter contains within it a notice under Civil Procedure Rules; I am of the belief that if the CPR Pre Action Protocols are followed diligently by both parties then litigation is likely to be unnecessary Schedule 2 paragraph 2 (a) of The Data Protection Act 1998 reads thus

2. The processing is necessary

(a) for the performance of a contract to which the data subject is a party,

This is where your confusion arises, I shall try and explain it simply for you. Might I also suggest that if you require further clarification in the matter that you acquire yourself a copy of the excellent book on the Law of contract written by Guenther Treitel? This is a highly informative tome and is frequently used as a reference in these matters by Lawyers and Judges right up to the very highest levels of the British Judiciary system.

You seem to believe that a contract exists between yourselves Cabot and myself **********yet no such lawful contract exists nor has it ever existed. I believe the confusion you suffer and the mention of contract arises from your purchase under a debt sale agreement and claimed assignment under Sec 136 of The Law of Property Act 1925 of an account originating with Goldfish such account carrying my name.

]Under English Law only the benefits and interest thereupon can be assigned (subject to equities), the burden/obligations of the contract itself cannot. For the contract to be legally assigned to you a novation must occur. This novation would explicitly require the consent of both parties to the original contract in order that the obligations of that contract be transferred to a third party. I categorically state that at no time have I entered into a novation with yourselves and Goldfish as the other parties. You are attempting to claim duties which lawfully rest with Goldfish under contract by virtue of an assignment and this is not lawfully meritorious. This is common legal ground, without this basic matter of legal principle you could claim rights under Schedule 2 Para 2(a) Data Protection Act 1998 to process data relating to any contract to which I am a party. You could for example claim right to share data about my mortgage or my car insurance or even my golf club membership. The law and the slightest modicum of common sense tells us that you may not take these actions because you are not a party to the contract involved.

Sadly you apply a different logic to the case in hand. You claim to be party to a contract which was signed between Myself and Goldfish yet you have failed to produce a true signed copy of this contract despite request. I personally and the Courts most definitely will expect you to produce any such written document in the event of litigation.

In the absence of any documentation to support your claim that myself and Cabot are legally bound by contract I am left with no option but to refute your claim made under Schedule 2 Para 2 (a) of The Data Protection Act 1998 as lawfully unmeritorious.

As I state above the next logical step would be for me to seek enforcement of the Section 10 order through the County Courts.

It would be both churlish and a breach of protocols to rush into litigation against yourselves without satisfying all other avenues of settlement in this matter and establishing both the merit(s) of my cause(s) for any intended action and my being able evaluate the likelihood of success prior to proceedings being initiated.

The facts of the matter are thus:

You claim right under contract to process my data and I state you do not have right under contract since no such contract between ourselves exists nor ever has existed. Surely common sense tells us that litigation with a view to enforcement can easily be avoided upon production by yourselves of either of the following two documents?

1) A true copy of a contract signed and entered into between myself ******** and your Company Cabot

2) A true copy of any document of or purporting to be representative of a novation between myself ********* and Goldfish and Cabot. Such document to bear the signatures of all three parties.

Receipt of either of these documents will be looked upon by myself as proof that you have contractual right to process my data as you claim and no action with a view to enforcement against your company under Sec 10 Data Protection Act 1998 will be forthcoming.

I enclose within this letter a request made under CPR 31.16 of the Civil Proceedings Rules. I am making this request from yourselves in an attempt to clarify matters thus:

I am embarrassed to admit that I have no knowledge of any contract existing between myself and your company and disclosure of these documents will help quickly establish the authenticity of your claim that such contract exists, whether any cause of action exists and may help me make an educated appraisal of the likelihood of success of any action I might bring against you.

I am embarrassed to admit that I have no knowledge of any novation existing between myself, Goldfish and your company and disclosure of these documents will help quickly establish the authenticity of your claim that such a novation occurred, whether any cause of action exists and may help me make an educated appraisal of the likelihood of success of any action I might bring against you.

Disclosure of these documents at this stage will also undoubtedly save costs and court time should litigation ensue but more importantly might help us as the two parties involved find resolution without having to resort to litigation which I'm sure you will agree would be a far more amicable and likely less expensive way to conduct this dispute.

I am a reasonable person and although this matter needs resolving I am still prepared to make the following gesture of goodwill towards yourselves with a view to avoiding litigation. I am prepared to give you 28 days from the date of posting (which has been recorded) in order to do either of the following:

1) Comply with the lawful request made under Section 10 Data Protection Act 1998 as of todays date

2)Provide all such documents as I request in the attached formal CPR 31.16 request notice enclosed within this letter.

Failure to comply with neither one of these requests will result in my reviewing the situation. At that stage I may feel it is appropriate to issue you a reminder of your obligations and grant you an extension in order that you may comply or if I decide that you are deliberately frustrating matters I may at that stage look to begin proceedings against yourselves without further notice. Such proceedings will be in order to obtain enforcement of the Section 10 1998 notice of the 11/09/2009, a notice you acknowledge being in receipt of. Notwithstanding the fact that you are indubitably in breach of your obligations to keep any data processed accurate and up to date it is likely that any application for enforcement will centre upon the fact you claim to be in contract with myself. Obviously you will be called upon by the Court to provide a copy of this contract for inspection and analysis.

If there is anything in this letter which you do not understand I suggest you seek advice from a solicitor or a consumer credit advice centre such as the Citizens Advice Bureau.

[GARY68]

Hi Exasperated,

Just been reading your thread,sorry if Im not upto date,

the letter above seems to be a bit ahead of schedule,

 

How long have cabot been chasing you?

All you have to do at the moment is send them the letter in dispute and tell them that it will be that way until you recieve your enforcable agreement,

they have stated that they are waiting for this imformation from Barclaycard, so see what turns up in the next 12 days,

Have you sent off your subject to access and fee to Barclaycard and included all the ppi imformation,

If so when you get these you can also see if there is any agreements in there as well as the money you can claim back-charges/ppi.

[exasperated]

Hi Gary,

Thanks for the info, yes I am getting ahead of myself but I have alot of 'sorting' to do and I didn't want to to take them all on at the same time!!

As you say tho its better to wait the 12 days and I will post back with anything they send

Thanks and regards

Exasp

[exasperated]

Hi,

Sent original CCA request to Cabot on 20th August who replied telling me to that Barclaycard now own Goldfish and I should send the CCA request to them. I sent a second CCA request to Barclaycard and they replied today saying they cannot trace my account...I used the Goldfish account number....

Is it time to send the letter previously posted or does anyone have any suggestions on the next step

Exasp

[IdaInFife]

if cabot is asking for payment then your cca request lays with them:

 

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

 

ida x

[cerberusalert]

Cabot frequently try this on, they are responsible under CCA 1974 to provide the information you requested;

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Send the in dispute letter to them.

[exasperated]

Cerb,

Nice to hear from you and thanks I will do that.

Ida,

Appreciate the advice all letters on the way

Exasp

[exasperated]

Sent cabot the account in dispute letter and also informed you them that I have wriitten to Barclays whom now own Goldfish and they have stated that no CCA exist. Offered them £50 in F&F and the reply is below.

Any thoughts anyone...

[cerberusalert]

Well Cabot have said they've put the a/c on hold until they receive the documents from the OC, so it looks as if they're in for a rather long wait.

[exasperated]

Hi Cerb,

I really want to settle all my accounts if poss for a reduced F&F any idea's to push them, they want 50% of balance at mo

As usual many thanks for your time which I hope I can pay back into CAG when I am as educated as you on the subject matters

Exasp

[cerberusalert]

You'll have to see what Cabot come up with within the next couple of weeks. When they realise they cannot produce an enforceable CCA they will negotiate with you because they would rather have something than nothing.

[exasperated]

OK Cerb,

I'll do that

Exasp