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PCN ISSUED, payed for ticket, parked in the wrong bay


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hello there.

HELP NEEDED!!

 

IS THERE ANY CHANCE TO NOT TO PAY THIS FINE??

 

as i do beleive it was issued unfairly.

 

Parked the car in the street next to a park, paid for ticket and displayed clearly. On return found a Pcn on my windscreen. So emailed to authorities, saying that I paid. They sent an email back, saying that the ticket was issued from the wrong mashine basically.. I'll copy paste the letters:

 

I wrote:

I have been issued a PCN alleging that I had not displayed a valid ticket while parked on Home Park Road SW19. In fact, the ticket was present and clearly displayed. The time of the notice is logged as 14:01, and the ticket did not expire until 14:45, on the 27/08/09. I have the original ticket to prove my statement.

 

they replay:

I refer to your letter concerning the above Penalty Charge Notice and apologise for the delay in replying.

The Penalty Charge Notice was issued as the vehicle was parked in Home Park Road without clearly displaying either a permit or voucher or pay & display ticket issued for that place.

When the issuing civil enforcement officer observed the vehicle there was a pay and display ticket ref 1903189 on display, however this was not valid for the location where your vehicle was parked.

At each set of bays along Home Park Road there are pay & display tariff boards and payment machines. Each pay & display machine has a different payment rate. Therefore you can only purchase and park at the set of bays where you purchased the pay & display machine ticket from. In this case when the issuing civil enforcement officer recorded the vehicle it was displaying a pay & display ticket (purchased from Home Park 2) however this was not valid in the set of bays in which the vehicle was parked.

Please find the photographic evidence taken when the notice was issued.

 

The thing is.. i did pay for the ticket.. I new that in the street there is another machine, but who could have thought, that amount is different.

The car was nicely parked in the bay, with the ticket on the windscreen, just with the different amount, I suppose 1 puond difference!

I think its unfair to pay 50.. or even 100 puonds.. for that!

 

WHAT SHOULD I DO next.

Shall i write an email again.. or or wait for the notice to owner.. and mark the contravention did not occour?!

 

Any ideas welcome!

Thank you so much

Edited by saldi
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Issue is that the contravention is not displaying, so whether you paid or not isn't the issue.

 

You'd need to prove the instructions weren't clear - show us photos of the setup.

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the machine I used was the nearest in my sight.. about 10-15m away..

The machine I had to use, was not in sight, very far away.. probably about 40 m or so. Also I think they just recently changed that, because the green machine has a flat fee (3.50£), and no hourly breakdawns possible. I live in the area for about 4 years now.. and always used that machine.

 

is there any way I could check since when the new tariffs were introduced?

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I think the option is to find a flaw in the traffic order, you can get a copy from the Merton link at the civic centre in morden. I can't actually read the machine instructions its a bit small. The signage has recently been replaced looking at google streetview but is quite clear so its doubtful that would get you anywhere.

The actual contravention is not having a ticket for THAT PLACE however the ticket does not make it clear its not valid in that place since it says home park 2 not machine 806 on it. The bay signage also states a max stay and not a minimum stay so the wording of the traffic order is crucial.

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what do you mean? sorry a bit confused here :)

 

anyway, do you think they gonna take me to the court because of this? I really doubt it..

 

As Green and Mean said, write back and ask them for a copy of the traffic order(s) for that location.

 

The traffic orders are legal documents which prescribe the parking restrictions and are normally accompanied by a plan showing the extents of any such order.

 

We have a similar situation near to where I live and there it is different on opposite sides of the same road!! :confused:

 

I wouldn't be so confident that they won't take you to court as the sign appears clear enough.

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

Restons MBNA -v- WelshMam

 

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I wouldn't be so confident that they won't take you to court as the sign appears clear enough.

 

No-one is going to take anyone to court. Why would they need to do that? They already have a

mechanism for enforcing payment through bailiffs (if it ever got that far).

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No-one is going to take anyone to court. Why would they need to do that? They already have a

mechanism for enforcing payment through bailiffs (if it ever got that far).

 

What I really meant is not to be overly confident that they won't enforce the debt.

 

Nonetheless, don't they still have to issue an Order for Recovery though which you can then appeal via a Statutory Declaration??

 

Have a read here...

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/parts/part75.htm#IDARMGR

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

Restons MBNA -v- WelshMam

 

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What I really meant is not to be overly confident that they won't enforce the debt.

 

Nonetheless, don't they still have to issue an Order for Recovery though which you can then appeal via a Statutory Declaration??

 

Have a read here...

 

PART 75 - TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT - Ministry of Justice

 

 

I don't have to read it - I worked within the system for years.

 

They may enforce the debt, but it has nothing to do with the courts. And you can bail out any time by paying.

 

If you lose all appeals and steadfastly refuse to pay, then they will issue an order for recovery which is the commencement of the enforcement process. You cannot "appeal" it, just because you feel you should not have to pay. It isn't part of the appeals process and you can only contest the order for recovery if you have specific grounds relating to the appeals process not being followed by them, or lack of official documentation being issued and received.

 

That's irrelevant to this case, so not something to be concerned with. The OP needs to follow the appeals framework. If unsuccessful go to adjudication (if worthwhile given the strength of the case) and ultimately, if unsuccessful, will have to pay.

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thank you guys!

 

I'll go and read.. also, will ask them to send me these traffic oders.

Wish me luck!

 

Will keep you updated

 

Yep, every restricted street needs a Traffic Regulation Order. It's a legal document anyone is entitled to view.

 

No TRO, no contravention.

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No TRO, no contravention.

 

You can be pretty sure there is TRO. The question is, does it define the restriction accurately compared to what's on-street. The OP will need to go through it and find the relevant section, and check it agrees.

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I have checked the map, and indeed it's showing two machines which belong to ZONE P2s. But it doesn't state the amounts.

 

I probably will pay then.. can't seem to find enough evidence :(

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so I wrote again to them:

Dear ,

 

Thank you for the replay to my previous letter. To be honest I was shocked when I've got your letter. I was sure that there was some kind of mistake.

 

I always pay for my parking. That day was no exception as I came to the park with my daughter and a resently born son. From the bay that I've parked the PAY machine was in my sight, so I headed to the nearest. Didn't even know, that there is another one, and the charge is different. The signage wasn't clearly placed or maybe overshadowed with trees. I didnt see it. There's also no information on the machine itself. According to the guidance in Chapter 3 of the Traffic Signs Manual, signs should be placed a maximum of 30m apart. Which in this instance was more than 30 m. As you see there were couple of reasons why i DID pay for the ticket in the nearest machine. I'm a fair citizen and please take this into consideration.

 

If you do wish to pursue the PCN then please enclose with your response a copy of the relevant Traffic Order.

 

Hence I trust the PCN will be cancelled.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

I've just got an answer from them:

 

Dear Mrs ,

Penalty Charge Notice: MT1512.......

 

I refer to your second email relating to the issue of the above Penalty Charge Notice.

I can only reiterate the statement made in our first reply; there were no valid grounds upon which the case could be cancelled.

I would advise that the discounted payment of £50.00 is only applicable for 14 days from the date of our first reply, which expires on the 22ndSeptember 2009. It is therefore requested you make settlement of the out standing £50.00, or await the notice to owner upon which your formal representations can be made.

 

and to be honest, they don't really care

 

nada :(

 

thanks for your help, everyone..

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