Multiple claims on one N1?

[heliosfa]

Hi all,

 

I am just preparing to take on Shop Direct re. penalty charges. They have already refused to refund in letters, so looking at preparing for court.

 

Now, there were accounts (choice and littlewoods). The choice one was passed to NDR to collect who sent a nice letter saying that "If you can pay your arrears in full in the next 7 days we will refund all default charges and additional interest added to your account."

 

There were more than the total arrears on the account in "Default" (Penalty) charges so NDR set the balance to 0 and returned to Shop Direct.

 

We then contacted shop direct for the remaining refund (as NDR were acting as agents of Shop Direct...).

 

However, Shop Direct have also charges £88 on a littlewoods account.

 

Now, I know the claim re. the choice refund really needs to be against NDR AND Shop Direct, but can I use the same claim form for the refund of charges relating to the Littlewoods account?

 

Or would it be worth while just going down the route of all of the charges are penalty and do just 1 claim against shop direct for both accounts?

 

H

[heliosfa]

bump

[AndyOrch]

Hi heliosfa

 

Nothing with regards to your latest post but i notice in your signiture you have a conkers brunel victory. Any chance you could give me a quick synopsis of what happened as i am dealing with a case for someone who as been stung by these also.IE they signed for conkers never heard nothing did it theirselves and then BF turned up on the scene tried to take over took the money from his account using Conkers application information.I understand they are one and the same except Conkers as now disapeared lost their credit licience i understand.

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited September 10, 2009 by Andyorch
addition

[Paults]

Bump,

Interested

[Paults]

Bump.

Any more News.

[heliosfa]

Fistly, BUMP!! I'd like to find out about this as I really need to do a final letter / LBA and get a claim in... This one is dragging out too long for my liking.

 

Hi heliosfa

 

Nothing with regards to your latest post but i notice in your signiture you have a conkers brunel victory. Any chance you could give me a quick synopsis of what happened as i am dealing with a case for someone who as been stung by these also.IE they signed for conkers never heard nothing did it theirselves and then BF turned up on the scene tried to take over took the money from his account using Conkers application information.I understand they are one and the same except Conkers as now disapeared lost their credit licience i understand.

 

Regards

 

Andy

Hi Andy, we just wrote to them pointing out that we felt we were getting no service from them and that the charges were causing hardship and contact had to be made with the bank.

 

As such, we requested their canncelations procedure.

 

To which they responded wsith something like "We normally charge an administration charge for our services, but in this instance as a gesture of goodwill, we are prepared to waive this charge."

 

Thanks,

H

[AndyOrch]

Thx for that Helio

 

I will get back to you with your problem during the week.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[heliosfa]

**bump**

[postggj]

my opinion on this would be one n1 claim against shop direct as the are the parent company of choice and littlewoods

 

just my opinion

 

at least both claims will be settled in one hit and only one defendant

[heliosfa]

my opinion on this would be one n1 claim against shop direct as the are the parent company of choice and littlewoods

 

just my opinion

 

at least both claims will be settled in one hit and only one defendant

 

Thanks postggj,

 

 

does anyone have any more input?

 

H

[heliosfa]

bump

[AndyOrch]

I would have to agree with Postggi keep it simple, one claim is more than enough to deal with at any one given time.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[heliosfa]

OK, I'll re-LBA them just as one "big" claim for all of the charges on both accounts.

[gezwee]

Hi Heliosfa

 

I understood NDR are an inhouse DCA of Littlewoods, they have no rights of assignment etc..... when they send out the usual pony stating 'we' may do this, that, and goodness knows what else they are talking out of their hats. The reason they have set balance for defaults etc to 0 is because they have no legal base for collecting. If indeed there were to be any default or collection fees these would be a matter between NDR and their client.

 

Would stick with the single claim.

 

Have you issued DSAR on Shop Direct group yet? Pretty much guarantee you there will be no mention of Assignment.

 

Gez

[heliosfa]

Hi Heliosfa

 

I understood NDR are an inhouse DCA of Littlewoods, they have no rights of assignment etc..... when they send out the usual pony stating 'we' may do this, that, and goodness knows what else they are talking out of their hats. The reason they have set balance for defaults etc to 0 is because they have no legal base for collecting. If indeed there were to be any default or collection fees these would be a matter between NDR and their client.

 

Would stick with the single claim.

 

Have you issued DSAR on Shop Direct group yet? Pretty much guarantee you there will be no mention of Assignment.

 

Gez

 

Hi Gez,

 

NDR were acting for (so they didn't own) on the Choice account and the statement they made was "if you pay the arrears we will remove all default charges applied to your account". Eventually after a few calls (all recorded) a manager called me bacck and agreed with what their letter said, set the balance to 0 and said we needed to approach Shop Direct for the rest. Balance was £150ish and charges were £309, so 159 outstanding (That Shop Direct/NDR have already effectively agreed to give back).

 

They have already effectively agreed to pay and that they should, they just haven't actually paid!

 

 

 

They have already been SAR'd and CCA'd. They have no agreement (So no auhority to share data or to add charges, my OH NEVER signed an agreement and both are fairly old) for either account and there ate about £100 in charges with a £60 balance on Littlewoods.

 

 

 

 

What I was really wondering was could i basically go "The claimant claims £xxx that the Defendant/Defendant's agent agreed to refund in a letter dated XXX.

 

The Claimant also Claims £XXX that the Defendant has debited from account No. XXX in Default Charges which are of a Penalty nature...."

 

Does that make sense?

 

H

Edited September 19, 2009 by heliosfa

[gezwee]

Hi H

 

Wouldnt go down the N1 route to claim the £159.00..... just thinking this is an expense you don't want to risk for so little gain

 

NDR will have reduced their balance to 0 which should mean that current balance with Shop direct is back to £150.00 - or at least it should be within circa 60 days allowing for month end accruals (guesstimate based on most company accounting records)

 

How long ago was last DSAR?

 

Gez

[heliosfa]

Hi H

 

Wouldnt go down the N1 route to claim the £159.00..... just thinking this is an expense you don't want to risk for so little gain

 

NDR will have reduced their balance to 0 which should mean that current balance with Shop direct is back to £150.00 - or at least it should be within circa 60 days allowing for month end accruals (guesstimate based on most company accounting records)

 

How long ago was last DSAR?

 

Gez

 

ndr marked the balance as paid, the acc hadn't been terminated, they were just after the arrears. This is now about a month and a half on, and her choice statements show 0. Choice have also confirmed no outstanding balance.

 

The last dsar was a couple of months ago, and no new developments.

 

Shop direct have not disputed the agreement to refund for the choice acc, infact they confirm it's existence. What they don't agree with is that the charges are penalties, so won't refund on the littlewoods.

 

Basically, they do not and have not disputed that they owe my OH the £159 from choice, only the £80 rom littlewoods is what they dispute. My OH "owes" £60ish.

 

H

Edited September 19, 2009 by heliosfa

[gezwee]

Right.......with you now, sorry

 

Just send them the LBA, if they still won't play ball sue them

 

Use the templates on here (and on Wiki) to complete N1 submission, if they're not penalties or unfair charges I'm sure they'll defend (not)

 

Don't forget a costs/damages schedule if you proceed to litigation

 

Gez

[heliosfa]

Right.......with you now, sorry

 

Just send them the LBA, if they still won't play ball sue them

 

Use the templates on here (and on Wiki) to complete N1 submission, if they're not penalties or unfair charges I'm sure they'll defend (not)

 

Don't forget a costs/damages schedule if you proceed to litigation

 

Gez

Ok,

 

That's what I was trying to get across - would it be worth doing the bit about what they have agreed (through their agents) to refund and thus don't dispute while claiming the penaties on the littlewoods account at the same time, or just do one claim saying they are all penalties?

 

If the former, I have already LBA'd them. If the latter, I will need to do a new LBA.

 

 

Thanks for yor responses btw

 

H

[gezwee]

I'd be inclined to follow the usual process, anything from NDR will have little or no bearing as they held no legal assignment as such they could advise any decision but it wouldnt be incumbent upon Shop direct to follow suit with other account, do you have a written acknowledgement from shop direct/choices regarding settlement offer on first a/c?

 

If you do you can certainly use it as ammunition later on.

 

Would send a second LBA for the other account (to be sure all bases are covered). Then - assuming still no settlement - proceed to filing N1 listing all as penalties and encumbered C.I, thats what they were and still will be if Shop direct fail to cough up

 

Gez

[heliosfa]

ok, just so i make sure all of the info is in play:

 

• OH has a choice and littlewoods account. Never signed an agreement for either, and both before 2007.
  
• Choice Account had £300ish in charges and the Littlewoods acccount has £80ish in charges.
  
• Choice account was passed to NDR to recover arrears only (£138ish out of a £150ish balance), so NDR were acting as "Agents" of Shop Direct.
  
• NDR sent a letter to OH saying (and I quote word for word but with my emphasis) "If you can pay your arrears in full within the next 7 days then we will remoe all default charges and additional interest applied to your accont". (note it says all and "we", they were acting as agents remeber..)
  
• We sent NDR a letter accepting that offer but electing to pay out of the charges as the charges were more than the balance. I followed up with a recorded phone call and i eventually got a call back from a manager. The manager agreed with what the letter had said, set the balance to 0 and returned the account to Shop Direct.
  We were told we would need to return to Shop Direct re. the rest of the charges.
  
• We then send a letter to Sop Direct re. the penalty charges and outstanding owed balance from the "NDR Agreement". enclosing the actual letter from NDR.
  
• They respond back with a "Final Response" saying theey don't agree that the charges on the Littlewoods account are penalties and that "Thee agreement from Nationwide Debt Recovery Limited which you have enclosed relating to account XXX clearly states "If you can pay your arrears within the next 7 days then we will remove all default charges and additional interest applied to your account".
  
• I then called them re. the outstanding balance and they deny all knowledge of having the NDR letter, so I fax them a copy.
  
• I then send a response to the FInal Response which was an LBA for both issues.
  

And that is basically where we are at the moment.

 

 

I'd be inclined to follow the usual process, anything from NDR will have little or no bearing as they held no legal assignment as such they could advise any decision but it wouldnt be incumbent upon Shop direct to follow suit with other account, do you have a written acknowledgement from shop direct/choices regarding settlement offer on first a/c?

The "agreement" was only on the Choice account and this is the one that still has about £150 in charges which they have effectivvely agreed to refund still outstanding.

 

 

The Littlewoods charges is a sub issue as it were and I am not holding Shop Direct to the NDR agreement on that account as it never did apply.

 

 

If you do you can certainly use it as ammunition later on.

 

Would send a second LBA for the other account (to be sure all bases are covered). Then - assuming still no settlement - proceed to filing N1 listing all as penalties and encumbered C.I, thats what they were and still will be if Shop direct fail to cough up

 

Gez

 

 

I was hoping it would be a bit easier as they don't contest atleast £150 and to be honest, if we can get the £150 back easier than the rest of the charges, we are prepared to let the rest go!.

 

Thanks,

H

[gezwee]

Hi H

 

Just semantics, if you press them they'll come back with more b****x, usual stalling in the hope that you'll get bored and go away.

 

There was no debt outstanding, how could you pay a non existent debt within 7 days when the indebtedness was from the other side?

 

You have effectively terminated/zero rated the balance sheet by recovering some of the money due to you......its now up to them to defend themselves in litigation if they don't want to repay the remainder of the sum due.

 

Do what they do, if you receive communications that don't meet with your position keep pressing them all the way to a county court.

 

Gez

[heliosfa]

well, a partial victory i suppose. Shop direct and i have come to an arrangement - they will zero the littlewoods account and this will be f&f of any claim from either side.

 

Not bad for a 10 min phone call!

 

H

[gezwee]

Excellent news, well done