JobSearch Diary?

[MRSWESTHAM]

I think the poster is trying to prove a point to a certain extent MONX which I do understand to a certain degree. I was merely trying to point out making tea for instance isnt in my job description, BUT if if was asked politely to do it I would. (and do !)If i was told MAKE TEA NOW mayabe id get the nark lol!

[MONX]

Yes I too understand that the OP is making a point and is standing by his principles.

 

The way I understand it, under the new regime of fortnightly jobsearch reviews (signing on) the customer is no longer REQUIRED to complete the dairy unless the officer reviewing his case feels there is a doubt as to his availability for or actively seeking a job.

 

Principles are fine but youve got to put food on the table, and if all it takes is filling in a dairy of the things youve done to find work .... I think I would do it. Unfortunately the OP will have made himself unpopular, you know what they say about the tall poppy!

[MRSWESTHAM]

No I Dont What Do They Say????!!

 

Agreed With You

[Norman1066]

Expecting you to complete a jobsearch diary is not comparable to an employer asking for sexual favours!

 

I understand your frustration and can see why you are getting so angry but in hindsight, wouldnt you rather have just completed the diary and saved yourself so much stress and anger?

 

No sir, I would not. I stand by my principles and will be complaining about this matter as far as I can take it. The next time they ask me for a diary I will tear it up right in front of them, and ask them to throw it in the bin to avoid littering.

 

Expecting me to do anything i do not wish to do nor have to do is comparable to anything i do not wish nor have to do... including sexual favours. I am not a slave, but a human being and I refuse to be taken for a fool.

 

That may be how you prefer to live your life... but i prefer not to lie down and just take it...

[Norman1066]

The way I understand it, under the new regime of fortnightly jobsearch reviews (signing on) the customer is no longer REQUIRED to complete the dairy unless the officer reviewing his case feels there is a doubt as to his availability for or actively seeking a job.

 

And you genuinely feel that an advisor in the job centre is qualified to make such a judgement in the first place? Isn't the person turning up to sign their name testament to the fact that they are actively seeking work? What right does anyone have to question the integrity of any individual? They have none, is the correct answer. This is why my appeals will always win in the end, they simply have no right to question my integrity, certainly not without any proof, my friend.

 

Principles are fine but youve got to put food on the table, and if all it takes is filling in a dairy of the things youve done to find work .... I think I would do it. Unfortunately the OP will have made himself unpopular, you know what they say about the tall poppy!

 

I can take unpopular, i've had much worse thrown at me than a bunch of illiterate jobcentre employees I can assure you. This is merely a mild annoyance. i will get my money back as they are breaking the law by withholding it from me without any evidence to back up their accusations. I have been unfairly tried and this is so easy to prove.

 

So why should i take it when there is no need to? If i take it so will the next guy and so it goes on, somebody has to stand for what is right. If you do not then you are no more than a coward.

[MONX]

And you genuinely feel that an advisor in the job centre is qualified to make such a judgement in the first place? Isn't the person turning up to sign their name testament to the fact that they are actively seeking work? What right does anyone have to question the integrity of any individual? They have none, is the correct answer. This is why my appeals will always win in the end, they simply have no right to question my integrity, certainly not without any proof, my friend.

 

I have no feelings either way, the fact is, these people are there to make a decision as to whether they consider you are actively seeking work. I suspect most people who work at Jobcentres are the same as everywhere else and will be less than helpful if you are argumentative or difficult. I dont like the system any more than you, it doesnt feel right that one person has the power to cease your benefits (within guidelines), however there is also someone out there who has the power to deny you a bank loan or a mortgage if they consider (within guidelines) that you dont have enough collateral or a bad credit rating.

 

 

I can take unpopular, i've had much worse thrown at me than a bunch of illiterate jobcentre employees I can assure you. This is merely a mild annoyance. i will get my money back as they are breaking the law by withholding it from me without any evidence to back up their accusations. I have been unfairly tried and this is so easy to prove.

 

So why should i take it when there is no need to? If i take it so will the next guy and so it goes on, somebody has to stand for what is right. If you do not then you are no more than a coward.

 

If you find this a mild annoyance and you dont mind being without money in order to make a point then go ahead, I for one wouldnt dream of stopping you however I would give you a word of caution, they do not have to provide evidence that you havent been looking for work, they just have to prove that you have not provided evidence that you have!

I suspect as I too have spent some time on Jobseekers Allowance come to this argument from the same side, I am just saying that sometimes standing up for what you see as something really important can seem less so from a different perspective and principles are not feeding your family at the moment.

[Norman1066]

well i no longer have to produce a diary for inspection and it seems a verbal is enough after all.

 

They also didn't stop my money, sent a letter to say they had but they didn't. going to appeal on it anyway though.

 

I've always stood up for myself and it has always paid me to do so in the end.

 

[NewSAHD]

MONX "they do not have to provide evidence that you havent been looking for work, they just have to prove that you have not provided evidence that you have!"

Seems about right, I suppose, but I'm glad it's worked out for Norman1066 after all

Norman1066, hi, I'm new to these forums, so apologies if I'm writing on something you already know. I was thinking about the stress/fallout for those around you in your pursuing this matter in this way. So, seriously, I'm glad it's worked out for you

 

I've NEVER filled in my diary though, but not out of principle. It was just because it wasn't easy to record on the sheet what I've been doing to find work. I've spoken about this with the JobCentre before and have had someone in the JobCentre sign MY records so I can later prove what I've been doing. Like you, I've got young kids and can't muck about or be mucked about. The UK seems in a bad way, so here's to us all working on finding a good way out of it. Sooner I stop signing on the better too!

 

Norman1066, good luck in finding work

 

 

Edited October 7, 2009 by NewSAHD

[FitzWilliam]

well i no longer have to produce a diary for inspection and it seems a verbal is enough after all.

 

Yes, the Jobseeker's agreement only says you have 'to provide evidence' of jobsearch, not written evidence. And the jobsearch diary says, 'Please bring this form with you each time you are asked to attend your local office'. It doesn't say you have to fill it in.

 

My own Jobseeker's Agreement has an extra bit typed in by an advisor saying, 'Provide written job search evidence at each review.'

 

So I have to give written evidence of looking for work, which I put in the jobsearch diary.

[Norman1066]

well again today i was asked for a diary.

 

Yet this is not backed by legislation and is merely company policy as i was told today.

 

The jobcentres don't need to obey the law?

 

The previous poster is also wrong, they do need to prove you weren't doing enough to look for work. Once you told them you've done enough and you've adhered to the stipulations they are in no position to declare otherwise and you don't have anything to prove. This is why by law a verbal explanation is enough.

 

Yet my jobcentre have consistently broken this law. Not even giving me the chance of a verbal explanation, and then when provided with a written one they have still declared i'm not doing enough for work and have stopped my benefits, including housing benefit and council tax. Which incurs an extra cost out of my pocket.

 

clearly they have no right nor legal backing to make those decisions, so by what authority are they making them?

[Norman1066]

 

My own Jobseeker's Agreement has an extra bit typed in by an advisor saying, 'Provide written job search evidence at each review.'

 

So I have to give written evidence of looking for work, which I put in the jobsearch diary.

 

 

The thing that makes a jobseekers agreement valid is when you sign it. You should refuse to sign anything you don't want to do, even ask for a new agreement to be drawn up.

 

I remember when i signed my agreement i mentioned about the diary as i made no mention of it myself, and was told not to worry it is just for personal records. so i signed. then several months later they start trying to use the diary as a basis for control.

 

how authority loves stretching its muscles. However when you know your inalienable human rights, the main one being of course that all of us are equal, therefore no man has the right to judge another without due reason... then it becomes more clear how this diary is a clear breach of our human rights once they start using it for control.

 

This is why the law is clear on a verbal account being enough. Since when does company policy override the law?

[Norman1066]

the best thing to do would be to get a new agreement drawn up. they may try and tell you that not having the diary option may/will affect your claim... but the argument is that as it isn't a stipulation there can be no argument for refusing your claim on that basis.

[joeh9051]

I've been having a problem with my jobcentre in regrds to the jobsearch diary.

 

It all started when i forgot to bring in my jobsearch diary with me a couple of months ago at the jobcentre. The advisor I spoke to on this particular signing day was not happy about this and could not hide her disdain. So I happened to mention that in my jobseekers agreement the filling out of the diary is not a stipulation, so therefore isn't exactly a necessity that i produce it anyway.

 

On the JobSeekers Agreeement are several stipulations, things i must do to keep my claim live; Look in the local newspapers, internet, phone employers etc etc... all of those are stipulations and are even, rather handily, stipulated as such. Then you get an extra box at the bottom where some suggestions are made of some extra things you can do to look for work. One of these is a jobsearch diary. The implication however is that it is meant to help me with my search... obviously, I may forget that i've phoned an employer on a particular day so the diary would be there to remind me of this.

 

However the staff at the jobcentre seem to be misreading this obvious piece of english and are trying to twist it to their own meaning. So we arrive at an impasse.

 

For not producing my diary I was supposed to fill out a form there and then of my jobsearch for a month and more. I asked to take it away with me and was told that i couldn't do that. I filled it out as best as I could, then had a lot of drama with they saying that as I didn't sign the day before my claim had been closed down. I went weeks without any money, no fun with 4 kids.

 

Anyway, they decided that I hadn't been doing enough to look for work and didn't pay me for those 2 weeks. I wrote multiple complaints and did not get my argument resolved. I do not see why I must be treated like a child because I forgot a diary, it is bad enough that i must attend that pit of despair in the first place, but also to have to sit and be treated like something you wouldn't like to scrape off the bottom of your shoe is not something i can tolerate.

 

My argument still stands, the jobseekers agreement does not stipulate that I MUST fill it out a jobsearch diary. So now I have refused to fill one out ever since. Indeed I haven't even been given one to fill out.

 

Today however it has happened again. I have been given a white form (a single sheet of A4 with questions asking me what i've been doing to look for work) I think it's called ASE STENCIL. I know that there is no point whatsoever in me filling in this form as my money will be stopped again. Which also has extra costs in rent and council tax that i will have to pay.

 

Is this a breach of my rights?

i would tell everyone to seek legal advice from a solicitor ...you are unemployed so should be entitled to legal aid...

[NewSAHD]

Human rights? Sorry, I can't really comment on the 'human rights' angle of your post - but hopefully this message will serve as a 'bump' for those who CAN offer some useful feedback...

 

I've not been on CAG for awhile either, but hope the following DOES help you in some way

 

Last year I did not enjoy my time signing on - three young children, two of whom had to come in to the JC with me, other claimants in the queues acting like idiots, in front of my children too (yet the staff, in the main, we're very pleasant...save one, as I recall), waiting times beyond what was reasonable, just not a great experience

 

I had a similar experience as you with the Diary too though, but had repeatedly told the JC that the little piece of paper I was given to fill in was worthless to me... Why? Because I WAS actively seeking work, but, INSTEAD, I kept a spreadsheet documenting my job search (it helped me diarise follow ups / cross reference etc) and most times I took a printed copy of it to the JC

 

The few occasions I forget to do bring it in the staff were generally OK, as they recognised me, but on a couple of occasions I had to jump through all sort of hoops

 

Really painful, especially when I could see other claimants (you got to recognise the faces) just swan in, sign on, and walk out with barely a word exchanged between them and the JC staff member...

 

I think what I mean to say is that I can understand why you might refuse to fill in a JC JobSearch Diary, but - as with my (fortunately successful) argument with the JC, I could easily show what I was doing and when through use of my own spreadsheet

 

I'm worried for you then that you may not have the same argument against the JC to show what you're doing, if so, what are you doing to keep track of your job search?

 

Sorry, in typing that I can see how that could be misconstrued as me having a pop, but I feel for you, and having read your post keep thinking "the best line of defense is offense" and seek to side step the issue in some way. In my case I got some grief from the JC for using my spreadsheet, but could show I was actively seeking work - are you able to do the same in some way? Copy emails, that sort of thing?

 

Best I go, but hope that helps...

 

[NewSAHD]

Oops. Just seen this original post is from 2009!