Advice for Hearing

[want to be a happy Tenant]

Hi,

 

It is my hearing this week. I would really appreciate advice or suggestions, not just from the court experienced people but from any one who has the knowledge of hearing procedures, behaviour requirement, talking manners, documents handling etc. Please reply soon. I am bit nervous at the moment. Please help.

 

And one more thing I came to know is that the LL has filed a counter claim. the things he is going to bring are all untrue. I have just been told that counter claim will also be heard at the same time as my TDS claim hearing.

 

Link to my previous thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/residential-commercial-lettings/189659-advice-n208-3.html

 

Please reply soon.

[DisgruntledTenant]

Good luck!

[Mr Pipps]

You are effectively asking for several hours of legal vocational training here. Your request is impractical. No one can transfer such knowledge to you in a forum post online. You would probably not even adequately receive all the information you have asked for even if you read a detailed book.

 

The only way to obtain such knowledge for free, is by learning from your own experience.

 

Hopefully this hearing will provide a good opportunity for you to see how it's all done.

 

If you have any specific questions, then let me know.

 

Good luck!

[DisgruntledTenant]

is there any way you can PM where you case is being heard and at what time? I'd be keen to come along and watch if you dont mind?

[want to be a happy Tenant]

I just want to get some useful tips from others experience which can make things easier and effective.

[Mr Pipps]

Here's a tip: Turn up on time.

 

Ask a stupid (ie - vague) question - get a stupid answer.

[misselle]

I dont think thats an helpful post to say the least if anything i find it rude and offensive, the op was asking for advice and support not a sarcastic comment. if you dont have anything nice and helpful to say dont say anything at all.

 

Sorry I cant offer any advice Im in a similar situation with my ex landlord so hope your case goes well.

[want to be a happy Tenant]

Thanks misselle,

 

After reading the reply of 'Mr Pipps' I felt really bad for this whole consumer action group. On this web group people come with their problem to get advice, find solutions and some information to fight the injustise and the mistreatment that they received. And now here we get people like Mr. Pipps who either try to make fun of others by his rude/ offensive comments or by insulting others on this group. I noticed this behaviour in some of the other forums as well but unfortunately this world is not fair and we do have to live up with this type of people.

 

People come for advice and support but this type of people can not be of any help but would certainly do harm. Beware of them. Its just best to ignore their comments.

 

Well, As I mentioned earlier I created this forum to get tips such as, what not to do - that could displease the judge. and what things are to follow to make effective impression.

[Mr Pipps]

I am trying to teach you the importance of asking specific questions. Rather than just expecting someone to give you free legal advice without you even having to exercise your brain cells.

 

Ask a specific question, and I will do my best to help you. But please dont' be ungrateful. Remember, if it wasn't for my advice on your earlier thread, you would have probably listened to everyone else's incorrect advice and have found yourself pursuing an invalid land possession claim by now.

 

If you are unable to ask a specific question about building and presenting your case, then it would suggest that you are not going to the trouble of thinking sufficiently about your own case.

[want to be a happy Tenant]

The LL/defendant has filed a counter claim just 14 days before the hearing and I came to know about this 4 days before the hearing through court. I believe he is doing it as he might have relaised that he has no escape from the penalty and hence to compensate the penalty he is trying to couter claim for some amount using untrue matters and all. I have enough evidneces to fight that but wanted to know whether he has any right to file it now without court's permission.

 

As the 'Part 20 COUNTERCLAIMS AND OTHER ADDITIONAL CLAIMS'

20.4 says this:

(1) A defendant may make a counterclaim against a claimant by filing particulars of the counterclaim.

 

(2) A defendant may make a counterclaim against a claimant –

(a) without the court’s permission if he files it with his defence; or

 

(b) at any other time with the court’s permission.

 

 

(Part 15 makes provision for a defence to a claim and applies to a defence to a counterclaim by virtue of rule 20.3).

(3) Part 10 (acknowledgment of service) does not apply to a claimant who wishes to defend a counterclaim.

 

Is it applicable to my TDS claim as well?

[Mr Pipps]

It would be useful if you would advise of the source of the extract which you have pasted in the post.

 

On the basis of the extract which you have posted, then it would appear that as the defendant's counter-claim has been accepted by the court, after he has already filed his defence, then the court must have given their implied permission.

 

A reasonable response, from you as the original claimant, and potential defendant to the attempted counter-claim, would be to make an immediate application to the court for the counter-claim to be struck-out, on the basis that it is vexatious and wholly untrue.

 

On the basis that the court have only advised you of the counter claim four days before the scheduled date of the hearing of the original matter, this is definite grounds for an immediate appeal against the counter-claim being heard. Thee court would usually strike out the counter-claim entirely if you can convince the reviewing judge that it is untrue, or the hearing date will be rescheduled to allow for you to have more time to prepare, if you insist that you require more time.

 

If such a counter-claim was ever considered by a judge then the burden of proof would be on the counter-claimant to demonstrate, beyond reasonable doubt, that you caused him to suffer the alleged losses. Would he realistically be able to do this convincingly?

 

If he is lying, then he will have a harder job presenting a convincing story to the judge. And you will have more chances of picking holes in his story which he cannot convincingly respond to. If he is lying, he will be committing perjury, which is a criminal offence, punishable by prison sentence.

 

Furthermore, if this counter-claim has no basis in reality, and is pursued solely in response to your original claim as a means of emotional or financial revenge, then it would be vexatious claim by definition, and would make the landlord a vexatious litigant.

 

As most cases are effectively won or lost before the matter is even heard by the court, if I were to advise on this situation, I would recommended that a swift personal response is sent to the landlord. Psyche him out. Tell him you have evidence which can immediately and unequivocally prove that you did not cause the alleged damages and that he is lying. Point out to him that his claim is clearly vexatious and perjurious, and that you look forward to pointing this out to the court, which will then make the matter a criminal one. Don't spell it out to him, but allow him to make a reasonable guess as to what you are implying. If he is not a lawyer, he will have so far not considered the level of trouble which he is about to potential bring down on his own head. Lying in court is a serious act of self-condemnation.

 

This is merely my personal opinion of what I would do in this situation.

[want to be a happy Tenant]

Link to 'Part 20 COUNTERCLAIMS AND OTHER ADDITIONAL CLAIMS' : PART 20 - COUNTERCLAIMS AND OTHER ADDITIONAL CLAIMS - Ministry of Justice

 

The court has not issued his counter claim yet as he is yet to submit the court fee for it. As far as I know he never seeked the permission from the judge - his counter claim has not reached the judge yet.

 

The reason being we were both gived the date by which we had to submit any documents that we want to rely upon for the hearing. And he had submitted his counter claim along with his documentation for hearing.

 

I phoned the court to see if they have recieved my documents. And at that time I was only informed that they are also awaiting for the fees from the defendant.

 

So I am not sure if judge would accept the late submission of his counter claim or wether I could argue on the basis of the PART 20- 20.4

The LL/defendant has filed a counter claim just 14 days before the hearing and I came to know about this 4 days before the hearing through court. I believe he is doing it as he might have relaised that he has no escape from the penalty and hence to compensate the penalty he is trying to couter claim for some amount using untrue matters and all. I have enough evidneces to fight that but wanted to know whether he has any right to file it now without court's permission.

 

As the 'Part 20 COUNTERCLAIMS AND OTHER ADDITIONAL CLAIMS'

20.4 says this:

(1) A defendant may make a counterclaim against a claimant by filing particulars of the counterclaim.

 

(2) A defendant may make a counterclaim against a claimant –

(a) without the court’s permission if he files it with his defence; or

 

(b) at any other time with the court’s permission.

 

 

(Part 15 makes provision for a defence to a claim and applies to a defence to a counterclaim by virtue of rule 20.3).

(3) Part 10 (acknowledgment of service) does not apply to a claimant who wishes to defend a counterclaim.

 

Is it applicable to my TDS claim as well?

Edited September 8, 2009 by want to be a happy Tenant

[Mr Pipps]

So are you saying that he has merely attempted to serve his counter-claim on you?

 

That would change the situation entirely. And if that is the case, then it does not mean that the court will accept it when he tries to submit it.

 

The court's acceptance of his counter-claim would require the approval of a judge. There is no chance that a judge will look at a counter-claim within a four day timeframe. Therefore, it would appear to be almost impossible that the court will be able to accept his counter-claim in time for the hearing.

 

On this basis, I would if I were at the hearing, if the landlord attempts to bring his counter-claim into play in any way, be sure to point out that the counter-claim is invalid unless it has received special and specific permission from the court.

 

You have done a great job of finding CPR Part 20. Make sure you have this handy to point out to the judge, should this happen.

 

Be sure to be persistent. Judges usually just want any easy time. Make sure you force your judge to follow the rules, should they be less than eager to do so.

[Mr Pipps]

The LL/defendant has filed a counter claim...

Please be more careful with your wording.

 

A document is not 'filed' unless it has been accepted by a court.

 

Merely attempting to file a document is very different from actually validly filing it.

 

It is frustrating providing advice in one post, only to find the original poster contradicting themself in their next response, and invalidating the earlier advice.

[want to be a happy Tenant]

I won the claim. will put the details later.

 

Thanks for all the support and advice. This web forum/group rocks.

[Mr Pipps]

Congratulations!

 

The forum awaits your full report with anticipation!