council tax and jacobs bailiffs help needed asap

[harrop87]

hi, i have had jacobs bailiffs around as regards to unpaid council tax, i havent let bailiff in even though they have called twice this week he has made an appointment to try and come into my home on monday at 930am, now i know no to let him in and after reading some threads on here i have e-mailed my local council as i couldnt get an answer on the phone , i have offered 25 pounds a week and enclosed an income and expenditure breakdown, i have also stated that i dint want to deal with the bailiff as they will ask for an unreasonably high repayment that would mean me defaulting again, i have then stated that i have paid £25 today to the account number, hope i have done everything correctly can anyone advise me on what to do with the cocky and aggresive bailiff who keeps telling me he has to come in and levy goods or i pay in full and i cant pay by installments, i have told him i have nothing but he seems to think i am lying i am a housewife due to losing my job in march and we are currently just managing on hubbys income, i also have a four year old who would be put at a great disadvantage if things were removed from our home. sorry my grammer is bad just wanted to get the post written

anyhelp appreciated

regards

jen

[Yoshiro]

Well for a start do not let him into the house. He will try and trick you, but dont let him in whatsoever, dont even open the door to him!

 

Make sure your doors and windows are locked (not hard in this weather!)

[lets fight bailiffs]

can you give us more on the amount IE, what the amount of CT and the amount of fees they are trying to claim?

 

and you say the bailiff is been aggresive in what way?

 

LFB

[Lawyers-Online]

Do not under any circumstances let him in. Conduct any conversation through the letter box. Ensure all door are closed and locked - he cannot break open a door but can open one it it is unlocked, Budd v Pyle [1846] 10 JP 203. Make sure windows are closed too. He can climb in if one is open Tutton v Darke [1860] 5 H&N 647. When in he can break out by force. If he enters by force he is there unlawfully and you should treat him as a trespasser. In Vaughan v McKenzie [1963] 3 All ER 1154 two county court bailiffs used force to enter. One was struck over the head with a full milk bottle. Held: Not assault, the bailiff was there illegally. Move and secure your car and any expensive garden furniture or equipment. If you or your family feel alarmed, harassed or humiliated the bailiff is potentially in breach of s40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970. That is actionable by you. The penalties for him (and his employers) are severe. The council cannot behind their usual response that it is out of their hands. If he is in breach, so potentially are they. Write to the court too. Why not have a recording device ready for when he calls and take photographs too. Show no mercy. Keep calm and in control. Finally you have to pay this money, albeit at your pace. If not you will eventually be up before the beak and hauled off to prison.

[paulson1985]

You will only be commited to prison if you refuse to pay.

 

As long as you keep up the payments at a rate you can afford prison is not an option.

 

It is only used if you wilfully refuse to pay, of course you are willing to pay so this will not happen.

[sillygirl1]

As you have a small child you are deemed to be vulnerable and the council need to know this, they should not be sending a bailiff round if small children are present.

 

DO NOT LET HIM IN and contact your council again ASAP. The bailiff can only charge limited fees for collection of council tax, anything else is WRONG. You also need to contact Tomtubby on this site, they are the bailiff expert and can help further.

[Lawyers-Online]

A warrant to commit to prison is only issued if the court is satisfied that the failure to pay is:

§ Willful refusal by the debtor OR

§ Culpable neglect by the debtor AND

§ The debtor has means to pay the debt

The maximum period of imprisonment is three months, but the maximum period should be reserved for the most extreme cases eg deliberate refusal to pay.

Once a warrant for commitment to prison is issued the liability for Council Tax, including any joint liability must be written off. No further recovery action can be taken in relation to the relevant amount.

[Lawyers-Online]

In answer to Sillygirl1, I would simply put the question - if every family with young children were allowed to plead that bailiffs should not call at the house to enforce a debt sanctioned by magistrates or a judge after being presented with evidence and (sometimes) argument from the debtor, that it might just tempt the parents of those children to deliberately run up council tax and other bills? s40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 provides a remedy if indeed the family have suffered ".....alarm, distress or humiliation..."

[gustavius rex]

Do not under any circumstances let him in. Conduct any conversation through the letter box. Ensure all door are closed and locked - he cannot break open a door but can open one it it is unlocked, Budd v Pyle [1846] 10 JP 203. Make sure windows are closed too. He can climb in if one is open Tutton v Darke [1860] 5 H&N 647. When in he can break out by force. If he enters by force he is there unlawfully and you should treat him as a trespasser. In Vaughan v McKenzie [1963] 3 All ER 1154 two county court bailiffs used force to enter. One was struck over the head with a full milk bottle. Held: Not assault, the bailiff was there illegally. Move and secure your car and any expensive garden furniture or equipment. If you or your family feel alarmed, harassed or humiliated the bailiff is potentially in breach of s40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970. That is actionable by you. The penalties for him (and his employers) are severe. The council cannot behind their usual response that it is out of their hands. If he is in breach, so potentially are they. Write to the court too. Why not have a recording device ready for when he calls and take photographs too. Show no mercy. Keep calm and in control. Finally you have to pay this money, albeit at your pace. If not you will eventually be up before the beak and hauled off to prison.

 

 

Absolutely superb information!

 

l've been looking like a mad after the relevant prescedence and here you are giving me all in one go. Many thanks guys.

Gustavius

[Lawyers-Online]

Thank you. Case law abounds. I have many more Authorities and case law concerning the rights of the individual, against the army of bailiffs and others who wrongly believe they can go about their business unlawfully by entering private homes unlawfully. I passionately believe in the principle that our home is our castle, inviolate and that we should have the right to protect it. Not a view shared by this Government who continue to pass and amend legislation to permit any number of people and organisations to enter a property (Now almost 300 examples). A debt collector, or indeed any visitor, can under an implied licence at Common Law, walk to the door, post mail, leave milk etc, knock on it or ring the door bell to attract your attention. That licence can be revoked at any time by simply telling the person "any licence that might have existed to allow you to enter my land is now revoked - you must leave forthwith or you will be treated as a trespasser with the consequences that flow from it". This applies if you are tenant or owner.

[lets fight bailiffs]

fantastic info,

 

there is a lot to be learnt from this cagger.

 

i would advise anyone who has an interest in enforcement law to copy the case v case post above.

 

very good advise , thank you

 

LFB

[Lawyers-Online]

Thank you for your kind comment. Regards AW.

[gustavius rex]

Thank you. Case law abounds. I have many more Authorities and case law concerning the rights of the individual, against the army of bailiffs and others who wrongly believe they can go about their business unlawfully by entering private homes unlawfully. I passionately believe in the principle that our home is our castle, inviolate and that we should have the right to protect it. Not a view shared by this Government who continue to pass and amend legislation to permit any number of people and organisations to enter a property (Now almost 300 examples). A debt collector, or indeed any visitor, can under an implied licence at Common Law, walk to the door, post mail, leave milk etc, knock on it or ring the door bell to attract your attention. That licence can be revoked at any time by simply telling the person "any licence that might have existed to allow you to enter my land is now revoked - you must leave forthwith or you will be treated as a trespasser with the consequences that flow from it". This applies if you are tenant or owner.

 

 

 

Hi Guys,

 

lf you check out my (by now very long) thread ''Bailiff enforcement with police a horror story''', you will find that l did just what you have mentioned here. The result was that the bailiff arrived with police who threatened to arrest me and eventually managed to help the bailiff gain entry. This is a major problem and whether the police is ignorant or just assists the bailiffs on purpose, you are at loss. l'm taking this further, but, must admit that under the current climate of ever less personal freedom and right of privacy, l may not get very far.

Gustavius

[Lawyers-Online]

Nothing surprises me about the police. Over one thousand currently serving policemen have a criminal conviction for offences ranging from benefit fraud, theft, sexual offences and violence (Source Daily Mail). Many more have been dismissed from the police for similar and much worse offences, including large-scale drug dealing, perverting the course of justice etc. Get hold of a copy of their entrance exam, a 14 yr old would find it extremely difficult to fail! In my considered judgement they are simply (in the main) a collection of ill-educated, over-paid oafs who simply could not find emplyoment elsewhere at the income they are given. Their training is but a few weeks. A solicitor, on the other hand, attends university for 3 yrs or so, then has to do a Training Course and achieve a Legal Practice Certificate. Notwithstanding that, a policemen will pontificate on just about everything when the reality is he knows sod all about most things. When, for example, did your average plod receive training on the restrictions placed on bailiffs? The simple answer is never! I don't know all the circumstances but the fact that if plod assisted to enforce an illegal entry it does not make it legal. I will thoroughly read your thread later today. There is case, I can't remember the name, where plod tried to arrest a prostitute for offering her services from her own home. It was not an arrestable offence. Plod did not have a Warrant, he simply barged in - despite the prostitute's protestations. An argument of some magnitude ensued. The prostitute landed plod a well placed right hook. I am not sure which part of his anatomy. Prostitute convicted at Magistrates, overturned on appeal. Plod not there lawfully!

[Lawyers-Online]

Hi, I have now read your thread. With respect, you brought part of the problem upon yourself by threatening to blow his head off. What was he expected to do, turn up alone and risk getting shot? How could he know if you were serious or not? I realise that you thought it was only the police at your door. I suspect they did not announce they had the bailiff with them when they asked you to open the door because had they done so you would have refused to open it until he stood back from it. You, in ignorance of that fact opened the door and the bailiff forced an illegal entry (in effect) faciliated by the police. The issue of the threat and their response and the issue of the facilitation of an unlawful entry are entirely seperate issues. My belief is that it is actionable by you against the Chief Constable, Marstons and the council as co-defendants. Had the police really believed you had a gun on the premises you would have had a fully armed response unit on the scene. A word of caution, the police, in the main, are professional and prolific liars. They will all agree (in their notebooks) that you gave permission for the bailiff to enter. Case ended!

[gustavius rex]

Hi, I have now read your thread. With respect, you brought part of the problem upon yourself by threatening to blow his head off. What was he expected to do, turn up alone and risk getting shot? How could he know if you were serious or not? I realise that you thought it was only the police at your door. I suspect they did not announce they had the bailiff with them when they asked you to open the door because had they done so you would have refused to open it until he stood back from it. You, in ignorance of that fact opened the door and the bailiff forced an illegal entry (in effect) faciliated by the police. The issue of the threat and their response and the issue of the facilitation of an unlawful entry are entirely seperate issues. My belief is that it is actionable by you against the Chief Constable, Marstons and the council as co-defendants. Had the police really believed you had a gun on the premises you would have had a fully armed response unit on the scene. A word of caution, the police, in the main, are professional and prolific liars. They will all agree (in their notebooks) that you gave permission for the bailiff to enter. Case ended!

 

 

 

Thank you for taking the time and reading through my thread. l do agree that to a point l brought it on myself, however, l am pretty sure that there is case law regarding illegal entry (the threat of breaking in whether l was there or not, i.e. threat of illegal entry and physical violence from the bailiff) and the threat of physical harm, real or perceived. l did nothing more than warn the man off as he had no legal right to enter the house except by peaceful means. lf he had broken down the door and barged in to the house and if l was armed, physically unable to defend myself and shot the bastard would l then be found guilty? l do not think so as l only acted to protect myself and my property. l read up on all of this and it is very clear that the law and it's application pertaining to the defence of yourself, your family and your property is very permissive and fluid. That l, on the other hand, gave the bailiff an excuse to bring the plod, is of course, another matter and will not be repeated.

GR

[Lawyers-Online]

The criminal offence of Assault does not require physical contact. If you put into the mind of someone that he is about to suffer physical harm you have assaulted him. If for example the assailant was 20 stone, of a known violent background who stood over you and threatened to knock your head off or knife you, that in my judgement is assault. It is for that person to make the judgement. Clearly some people are more sensitive than others. Whether you can be assaulted by words used over the telephone is a question I cannot answer. Assault and Battery requires physical contact of some sort. My authorities for this assertion are to be found in Criminal Law by Smith & Hogan. The cases are to be found in Criminal Law Cases and Materials - same author. Makes good bed time reading. I am surprised that demonstrators do not use this sanction when lawfully protesting and plod unlawfully threatens them to beat them over the head with their batons.

[tomtubby]

Do not under any circumstances let him in. Conduct any conversation through the letter box. Ensure all door are closed and locked - he cannot break open a door but can open one it it is unlocked, Budd v Pyle [1846] 10 JP 203. Make sure windows are closed too. He can climb in if one is open Tutton v Darke [1860] 5 H&N 647. When in he can break out by force. If he enters by force he is there unlawfully and you should treat him as a trespasser. In Vaughan v McKenzie [1963] 3 All ER 1154 two county court bailiffs used force to enter. One was struck over the head with a full milk bottle. Held: Not assault, the bailiff was there illegally. Move and secure your car and any expensive garden furniture or equipment. If you or your family feel alarmed, harassed or humiliated the bailiff is potentially in breach of s40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970. That is actionable by you. The penalties for him (and his employers) are severe. The council cannot behind their usual response that it is out of their hands. If he is in breach, so potentially are they. Write to the court too. Why not have a recording device ready for when he calls and take photographs too. Show no mercy. Keep calm and in control. Finally you have to pay this money, albeit at your pace. If not you will eventually be up before the beak and hauled off to prison.

 

PLEASE...do stay around !!

 

Your advice is excellent and with the severe effects of this damned recession really taking hold there are now so many people facing a bailiff visit and they simply unaware of their rights.

[Lawyers-Online]

Hi Tomtubby

Thank you for your kind remarks. This web site is addictive!

Warmest Regards A.W.

[Jach]

Hi Tomtubby

 

Thank you for your kind remarks. This web site is addictive!

 

Warmest Regards A.W.

 

 

This website is addictive! I currently have major problems with bailiffs and have spent all of my time off work trawling through any piece of information/advice I can find on here. Advice you have given is excellent, thank you it will be very useful to my own situation.

[Rayla]

hi i need to get case law on bailiffs forcing entry and resisting them i have been charged with various offences after being assaulted by them kicking my door in

[ploddertom]

hi i need to get case law on bailiffs forcing entry and resisting them i have been charged with various offences after being assaulted by them kicking my door in

 

You need to start a new thread for this http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=168 and it may help if you can explain a bit more of your problem.

[1Loretta]

1hi i need to get case law on bailiffs forcing entry and resisting them i have been charged with various offences after being assaulted by them kicking my door in

[1Loretta]

hi i need to get case law on bailiffs forcing entry and resisting them i have been charged with various offences after being assaulted by them kicking my door in

 

Please read my thread