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Sticky situation with friends


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My OH has been working for my friends for nearly 3 years. He left a safe, secure job as they had promised work for at least 5 years. They were in the property business but my friends husband has his own job which is their main wage. Obviously with the current economic climate the property business was struggling but the main job is safe (he can earn up to 50k from 1 deal:eek:!!).

Over the past year my OH had completed 2 houses from bomb sites to fully refurbished and when they were finished he started work on their own house. This is where the problems started. My "friend" was making sly comments to him, asking him to do something then changing her mind so he would have to re-start the job and just basically being a pain in the butt.

My OH was very stressed out over it all but we discussed it and agreed that he had no choice but to get on with it. He had an operation in July and was off work for 4 weeks recovering. My friend took this as holidays so he would still have normal wages.

About 2 months ago my OH was told that they would need to reduce his hours so he lost 2 days pay a week. He has now completed all of the renovation work in her own house and surprise surprise they have no more work for him. He has been off sick for the past 2 weeks with a reoccurence of what he had the operation for. He received a letter 2 days ago to say that because of the current economical climate his job is redundant, although I don't think they are winding the company up- just waiting until the mortgage co will re-mortgage.

They have given him one weeks notice of which he will be off sick for. He never received a contract, although he had asked for one but with it being friends he never pushed for it. He even had to ask for his wage slips when he needed proof of employment- I think all in all he has received about 6 wage slips in the 3 years.

What I would like to know is are they right in giving him just 1 weeks notice- They said they had tried to contact him on numerous occasions (bull- he called my OH and said he needed to talk on 26th of this month and sent 1 text so if this is "numerous" occasions:confused:). I think he put this in the letter as they wanted to finish him just after he had been paid so they didn't have to pay him any more money. He has taken all of his holidays when he had his operation so no money will be due.

Friends eh!!:roll:

Any advice would be gratefully received. Thankyou:)

<<<If I have helped please tickle the scales;-)<<<

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Thank you marie- scale tickled:eek:

 

I think that is why they have put in the letter that they tried on numerous occasions last week to get in touch and he "was not accepting or returning their calls".(Rubbish) He text them to say he would be off sick and they text back to say they would have to talk then that was it- the numerous occasions!!! It just seems very convenient that he was paid at the end of the month, went off sick and then made redundant so they don't have to pay him any money now as he is off sick. Incidentally would he be entitled to redundancy pay as it is the position that has been made redundant?

<<<If I have helped please tickle the scales;-)<<<

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Looks likely :), he's got nothing to lose by sending them a letter.

(see 162 & 164 in the ERA below)

I'm not exactly sure what the 'relevant date' would be, but it's probably either the termination date or the last day of the notice period so that shouldn't be a problem in this case.

 

Employment Rights Act 1996 (c. 18)

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I think she thinks he was her domestic servant so maybe that's why they haven't mentioned redundancy pay!!!!! Think we will wait until 28th of this month as they mentioned in the letter any money due and his P45 will be sent then. Thanks for your advice:)

<<<If I have helped please tickle the scales;-)<<<

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just a quick thought- would he have to write to them to request redundancy pay within a specific time limit or would he be ok to wait and see what they pay him at the end of the month? Don't want to mess this up:)

<<<If I have helped please tickle the scales;-)<<<

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He can wait and see what they pay him at the end of this month.

If they don't pay him a redundancy payment he can write to them to claim it.

If this doesn't achieve the desired result, he could then make a claim to an employment tribunal on or before 1st December 2009.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Update- no redundancy pay!!! What a surprise.

He had taken out a loan with them and they put on their notice letter that they wouldn't be seeking the remainder of the loan(£700). I wasn't happy with this as I didn't want to be owing them money but her hubby insisted it wasn't paid back.

What should I write on the letter for redundancy pay? I want to tell them to take the £700 off any redundancy pay or should I not write this in the letter in case they don't pay him any?

Any advice appreciated please:)

<<<If I have helped please tickle the scales;-)<<<

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  • 2 weeks later...

money is due regardless of holidays unless ure husband used up more then what was accured in which case the non accured holidays will be deducted . but they owe your husband 2 weeks salary minus any non accured days that were taken as holidays. but did your husband agree to those days as being as holidays? if not, then they can not class the days your husband had off sick as holidays without his consent.

 

With regards to no contract, they are in breach of employment laws as a written copy of the main terms of the verbally agreed contract (verbally agreed contract exists once offer of employment is accepted, legal fact) within 2 months of the starting employment.

 

So my advice to you would be to contact acas inform them of everything or since they are friends you could write them a formal letter stating they have acted unlawfully. but ask yourself do they see you as friends, way she treated your husband suggests otherwise. yes they may have said you dont have to pay of the rest of the loan but wheres there credit license to actually authorize a loan to you for such an high amount? and they certainly can not claim it back from your husbands redundacy pay unless it was a pay advance which i doubt it was.

 

so yeah goto acas explain everything to them and get them involved in the matter so you can get what you are legally entitled to.

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (CAG),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

 

By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

 

If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phinishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

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Hi teaboy thanks for advice. The loan was for £2k and he paid back £200pm so I don't know whether this would count as a pay advance or just a perk of the job (we did appreciate it!!!).

 

When he asked for his contract she said it was just a verbal contract and that was it.

 

He took the 4 weeks holiday rather than sick pay as we are already in deep doo doo with money.

 

I know they are not considering our feelings but I would feel a bit sh*t if I got them into trouble:rolleyes: silly I know. Is there a specific wording for the letter asking for redundancy pay? I am hopeless at writing letters (apart from nasty letters to the bank which I'm quite good at!!!)

 

Thank you for your advice:)

<<<If I have helped please tickle the scales;-)<<<

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Well first before start with the letter.

 

Were they charging you any internest on the loan? if the loan repayments were separate from your husbands pay slip i.e not taken from his wages. Then in can be seen as an independent loan, now am not sure what legal issue would with regards to the loan not being a pay day advance. But i do know that in order for them to charge you a set interest rate on the loan then they would be required to have a credit license and a credit agreement in place. Which i doubt they have therfore the loan is unenforceable in the courts so they couldnt claim the £700 back from you even if the wanted to. However that a separate issue from your main issue but could be worth holding on as extra ammo.

 

On to the main issue. Firstly did your husband recieve any written terms know as a written statement, these terms will be terms for the said verbal contract. note according to employment law such a written statement must be given to your husband within 2 Months of starting employment. Now even if no signed contract is in place they must still provide you with basic writtten terms for such as pay, holidays and sickness etc including redundancy pay.

 

Now lets put aside the issue about weather your husband agreed to the time he had off recoverying to be paid as holidays rather then SSP. beucase this will just complicate things and i believe your just simply after the 2 weeks notice pay that your entitled too.

 

So bsically in your letter put somthing like the following

 

Dear (their names)

 

With regards to the redundacy pay for the 2 weeks notice in which i (your husband) has so far not received. i must point out to you that in accordance to the Employment Rights act 1996 chapter 18 sub chapter 5 section 162 (your husband) is entitled to be paid for the full 2 weeks notice as redundacy pay, as a result for the time in which he was employed by yourselves. So far this has not been received. I therefore respectfully request that you make payment to (your husband) in accordance to the said Act with in the next 14 days. (your husband) does not wish to take this matter to tribunal as you are family friends. however if (your husband) does not received what he was entitled to, as a result of yourselves making him reduntant. then we will have no choice but to take this matter along with any other inconsistencies with regards to his employment (i.e failure to supply written statement of his verbal contract in accordance to the Employment Rights Act 1996 Chapter 18 Part 1 section 1, which is a breach of the said Act) to tribunal.

 

We would like to resovle this issue amicable, but we are prepared to take whatever action is needed to recover what (your husband) is legally entitled to.

 

Your Sincerely

 

(your name/your husbands name)

 

Something along those lines for now. they not going to like it but not matter what you do or say they not going to like it anyway. so keep it simple and to the point and ensure they are aware that you wish to reolve it amicable without legal action but you are more the prepare to take such action.

 

They may imply that the outstanding loan amount was the redundacy pay. however legally that wont stand up in court and they will have just shot themselves in the foot. if the loan was not being deducted and shows as deductions on your husbands payslip its then independant of his employment and subject to consumer credit laws, if they have been charging interest, if not then the remaining 700 is just a gift lol.

 

But we will not go there yet we will wait and see what their response is to the first letter. ok. So get that sent to them and let us know what happens You should correct my speeling and any grammical error s first though as am not hte best when it comes to spelling or grammer ;)

Edited by teaboy2

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (CAG),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

 

By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

 

If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phinishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

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