MBNA/Restons Claimforms - 2 MBNA Cards **DISCONTINUED***

[royalblue1878]

and there's you taking advice off a red

 

(but jokes aside lets stick to the topic or the cagbot will have us - nice that you put the year of your last league win in your name though:eek:).

 

Seriously though mate, any time - just ask we're one family on here- red, blue, green or white - one for all and sod the dca.

 

Cheers, I will keep updating when there is anything happening here!

 

And maybe see you in the Euro cup! (ok, that's enough! ed.)

[Mydogsawestie]

hi royalblue1878 just stopping on by to say how well your doing with the clan so far and hope it continues that way too...they;ve still never produced me with any orig docs & the judge from my court hearing in July has still not given any directions for the claimants mbna/restons to disclose yet or whatever either so I am no further fwd. How miffed they must be to not have had any pennies all this time either ....I'm sure tho when the judge is ready he is ready so am continuing to sit tight for now.....

[royalblue1878]

Cheers Westie,

 

Feeling good about this at the moment, shame you've had to wait so long! Hope my Judge doesn't go on a world cruise! Mind you there are plenty of other things to worry about so I don't mind waiting a bit, gives a chance to sort some of the other debts out!

[ltc1607]

Hi Royalblue I just wondered if you have heard anymore from Experto I am in the same position as you with them but not heard a thing for weeks.

[royalblue1878]

Hi ltc1607,

 

Not heard a thing since early November when Experto sent the original letter.

 

As soon as I do I will let you know.

 

Royal.

[royalblue1878]

Letter from Restons,

 

they are basically saying that they are:

 

Relying on reconstituted versions of the credit agreement.

 

Due to the Stay, would I like to negotiate a settlement?

 

and,

 

A warning that should the matter proceed, trial costs are likley to be substantial!

 

Any ideas for a reply?

 

There can be no settlement (Can only offer £1) so I should really tell them that and warn them of the trial costs as a courtesy!

[chippo]

just subbing, gl blue

[Mydogsawestie]

wow Royal Blue...can they not comply with the cpr requests after all diddums diddums. The ball is in there court isnt it as prev advice been given. How are you suppose to negotiate something you are possibly not liable for in the first place

 

My thoughts tho is if you dont respond to showing a negotiation could this not go in your favour if it does get to a hearing stage??? But then again by asking for the docs it is because it is in dispute if you indeed owe any of this orig debt in the first place. Perhaps you can remind them in your reply that you have an excellent chance of successfully defending this case and remind them of.....

 

Sir Andrew Morritt's view in the Court of Appeal on the whole issue of CCAs:

Quote:

“In effect, the creditor--by failing to ensure that he obtained a document signed by the debtor which contained all the prescribed terms--must (in the light of the provisions in ss 65(1) and 127(3) of the 1974 Act) be taken to have made a voluntary disposition, or gift, of the loan moneys to the debtor. The creditor had chosen to part with the moneys in circumstances in which it was never entitled to have them repaid”.

 

This quote can be seen at http://www.francisbennion.com

 

I think they are scuppered and grasping now for what they can get out of it....I will keep my eyes peeled for any great advice you get to respond to your letter & hope you gain further success in your conquest soon

[royalblue1878]

This is a bit like a game of Poker at the moment and even though we can see each others cards they are still playing the bluff like a fish! Maybe it's time to go all in.

[citizenB]

For information.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/240186-dissecting-manchester-test-case.html

 

HTH

[royalblue1878]

Thank you Citizen.

 

I was wondering about that case.

 

Cheers.

[royalblue1878]

Would it be normal to have received a copy of Restons AQ? It just dawned on me that I sent them a copy but didn't get one back!

 

Cheers.

[Mydogsawestie]

I didnt get one just them going for summary judgement immediately which I understand is quite common of them!

[royalblue1878]

Letter received from court today:

 

Summary..

 

N24 - Stayed until claimant send Credit documents to court and defendant.

 

Above was made without representation from either defendant or claimant.

 

7 Days to apply for set aside or variation.

 

What is the best option now? If neither party does anything does the stay order remain in perpetuity?

 

Regards to all,

 

Royal.

 

 

[Mydogsawestie]

Hi royalblue1878

 

I had this info (copied off a thread awhile ago) re the situation your in should that have ever happened to me.....here is the extract

 

Where defence was being served on the claimant and that they had 28 days to respond. Where he wishes to proceed the claimant must contact the court within 28 days after receiving a copy of my defence. After that period has elapsed the claim will be stayed. The only action the claimant can then take will be to apply to a judge for an order lifting the stay.

"The claim will be stayed" means that it goes into a kind of indefinite limbo, just waiting for the claimants to actually do something. This is a disgraceful situation, as it just wastes the court's time and the taxpayers' money. If the claimants were not ready to launch their claim, they should not have done so.

 

The action you should take is the hardest action of all - waiting. It is now firmly up to the claimant to decide whether to spend more money taking this further. You've done everything you can do.

 

The ball is now firmly in their court, as its stayed you cant go for a set-aside, as theres nothing to set aside, suggest a letter to the court highlighting the claimants delay in pursuing the claim, and their inability to produce any sort of reply to your request for info under the CPR, and asking fort their claim to be stuck out.

 

 

 

 

[royalblue1878]

Thanks Westie,

 

I thought that may be the case, although I am still suprised it is! The court must know that they (Mbna) either have the docs or they don't and I'm suprised they allow a show of such little respect for the courts.

 

I spoke to the court before and they were quite helpful so I think I may give them another call followed by a letter as you suggest.

 

So many bookmarks it's hard to find my own thread!

 

Anyway I spoke to the court who again were very helpful and explained my options.

 

I have download form N244 and will work on that this weekend so that I can deliver it on Monday.

 

What would the difference be between a strike out and a lift of the stay?

 

The strike out is obvious but what would happen if I applied to lift the stay? The court said that the case, if the stay were lifted, would go back before the judge who would have to make another ruling. Which I presume would effectively be the same as asking for a strike out?

 

Is one option cheaper than the other? (Strike out is £40)

 

Also having looked at the N244 I am sure I will need a bit of guidance to complete it. Can anyone who has applied for a strike out/stay in similar circumstances help me with this or direct me to a similar thread?

 

Stop Press: I have just had a quick look around other threads and have found a third option which is an 'unless order' presumaby this is also applied for with an N244. Thinking about it I feel this maybe the better option am I correct-ish?

 

Will still need guidance with N244 though!

 

Brief summary:

 

Claimant has admitted in writing to me that they do not have original docs or even copies and that they would reconstruct agreement and rely on that, although that has not happened yet either.

 

Dec: Judge orders stay for a month to enable parties to attempt settlement.

 

Now: Judge has repeated stay order indefinately until claimant sends docs to court and defendant (this cannot happen as they do not have them!)

 

So to prevent the case going into limbo for eternity would an 'unless order' be the way to go?

 

Just to make my previous post a bit clearer!

 

I have recieved a 2nd stay order from the judge, this one is stayed until claimant sends Agreement docs.

 

As I said they have admitted they dont have them so rather than leave the case in limbo what would my best option be?

 

An N244 to ask for a Strike out?

 

Or would an N244 'Unless order' be more appropriate?

 

Or perhaps neither?

 

Cheers,

 

Royal.

[supasnooper]

Apply for the Strike Out as the Claimant doesn't have the necessary documentation.

 

Should be game over if you have proof from the Claimant that they don't have the Agreement.

 

Don't forget to ask for all your costs as well.

Edited January 31, 2010 by supasnooper
spelling

[royalblue1878]

Thank you Supa,

 

I shall now go through pt's post about filling in N244

 

Also as my income is currently Zero it looks as if I may get remission from the fee by filling in form EX160 (Hope so otherwise it's a no go!)

 

I am sure I will be back to ask some N244 questions soon!

 

Thanks again,

 

Royal.

[royalblue1878]

Ok, Back sooner than I thought!

 

N244

 

Box 3:

 

An order that the claim be struck out and Judgement entered for the Defendant because the claimant is unable to fill their obligations and cannot provide copies of the Credit Agreement that the claim relates to in accordance with the court order dated ../../.. Is it nescessary to include legal jargon in this bit? And do I need to attach a draft order?

 

Box 4: see above

 

Box 5: Looking at the back of the form guide..would the judge consider a hearing nescessary?

 

Box 6: 10 Mins?

 

Box 7: No

 

Box 8: District Judge?

 

Box 9: The Claimant

 

Box 10: Do I need a witness statement? and how are they formed?

 

Could I just write in the box that I have received confirmation from the claimant that the docs are not available and attach the letter they sent as proof? (It is a real signed letter from MBNA rather than a photocopied signature)

 

I was under the impression that the fee for this would be £40 but now I'm not sure any ideas?

 

One last thing where and how do I put in a request for costs?

 

I am planning to drive to the court tomorrow, (providing the car makes it!)

 

Thanks to anyone who can help here!

 

Good grief! Applying for remission for court costs.

 

Spent hours looking for self assesment forms, wage slips etc etc. Then I get to the bit where you put your outgoings and the only expenses you can put are:

 

1.Mortgage/Rent

 

2.Allowance for your partner £159

 

3.£315 living expenses (to cover everything from food to council tax!)

 

4. other possibilities such as court orders and children of which I have none.

 

So even with monthly negative equity I have no chance of getting any help. (I wonder if the court would notice a check dated for next year!)

 

Oh well, less forms to fill in.

 

I recently had to fork out for travel from way up north to london for regular NHS hospital appointments (train/hotel) and got no help for that either!

 

Sound like a right old winger don't I!

 

Ta.

Edited January 31, 2010 by royalblue1878

[citizenB]

Ok, Back sooner than I thought!

 

N244

 

Box 3:

 

An order that the claim be struck out and Judgement entered for the Defendant because the claimant is unable to fill their obligations and cannot provide copies of the Credit Agreement that the claim relates to in accordance with the court order dated ../../.. Is it nescessary to include legal jargon in this bit? And do I need to attach a draft order?

 

Box 4: see above

 

Box 5: Looking at the back of the form guide..would the judge consider a hearing nescessary?

 

Box 6: 10 Mins?

 

Box 7: No

 

Box 8: District Judge?

 

Box 9: The Claimant

 

Box 10: Do I need a witness statement? and how are they formed?

 

Could I just write in the box that I have received confirmation from the claimant that the docs are not available and attach the letter they sent as proof? (It is a real signed letter from MBNA rather than a photocopied signature)

 

I was under the impression that the fee for this would be £40 but now I'm not sure any ideas?

 

One last thing where and how do I put in a request for costs?

 

I am planning to drive to the court tomorrow, (providing the car makes it!)

 

Thanks to anyone who can help here!

 

Royal.

 

one more bump...and I dont even support Millwalll!

 

Pleased to hear that

 

I have no idea how to approach this, so will hit the panic button and send out an SOS for you.

 

BTW, you do not NEED to inlcude a witness statement. If you can get all you need to say in box 10. If there anything else that you wouldl want to bring to the courts attention to aid the strike out or whatever, then you may consider a witness statement to be the way to go.

 

I will however check out the court fees for you.

[supasnooper]

Box 3 is fine.

 

Yes you will need a hearing.

 

10 minutes will be okay.

 

You will need a District Judge.

 

In box 10 put a reference to the attached Claimants letter.

Attach a copy of the Claimants letter to the N244.

 

You can submit your costs on a sepearte document and make sure the Court and the opposition receive a copy 24 hrs prior to the hearing.

[royalblue1878]

Box 3 is fine.

 

Yes you will need a hearing.

 

10 minutes will be okay.

 

You will need a District Judge.

 

In box 10 put a reference to the attached Claimants letter.

Attach a copy of the Claimants letter to the N244.

 

You can submit your costs on a sepearte document and make sure the Court and the opposition receive a copy 24 hrs prior to the hearing.

 

Thank you both for your help.

 

Seems simple enough!

 

One thing:

 

As regards to claiming costs are there any threads that cover the sort of amount you should be claiming and how it should be set out/worded to the court/claimant? Also does it need any mention in the N244?

 

Thanks again to all you wonderful people!

[supasnooper]

You ask for your costs once the Judge strikes out the Claimants claim.

 

There a few threads regarding costs. Although most of them are for Wasted Costs, the general format is still the same -

 

Surfaceagentx20 wasted costs

also

 

Liabilty for Costs CPR 38.6

Sharpman v Nationwide credit card services ***WON WITH WASTED COSTS***

 

Welcome/Cohens - case withdrawn ***WOO-HOO ***

 

have a look at this post by IGNM on costs as well -

 

IGNM post on costs

 

and a B_R_W post on what else you can claim - B_R_W additional costs you can claim

[royalblue1878]

Thank you again,

 

I had a quick look as well and found that:

 

LIP per hr costs £9.25

 

Each letter sent £6.75 (plus stationary)

 

Any other legitimate costs (travel etc)

 

I shall have a good look at the threads you have provided.

 

Phoned the court again and I can drop the N244 off tomorrow.

 

Feeling good at the moment!

 

Hope I am not getting ahead of myself!

 

But if anyone following is interested this is my possible costs proposal (although not finalised)

 

10 letters @ £6.75

46 Hours research @ £9.25

1 X N244 @ £75.00 (I think)

Travel costs £22.50

Miscellaneous (stationary etc) To be considered

 

Comes toabout £600 does this sound reasonable for 2 claims?

 

Just an update, still heard nothing from MBNA or Experto.

 

Not even attempted to hassle me by phone either.

 

The amount is quite small (under £500) so I suppose they do not think it is worth the bother maybe.

 

Regards,

 

Royal.

[citizenB]

Hope I am not getting ahead of myself!

 

But if anyone following is interested this is my possible costs proposal (although not finalised)

 

10 letters @ £6.75

46 Hours research @ £9.25

1 X N244 @ £75.00 (I think)

Travel costs £22.50

Miscellaneous (stationary etc) To be considered

 

Comes toabout £600 does this sound reasonable for 2 claims?

 

Royal.

 

That sounds ok to me. Does your letters include postage at special / recorded delivery rates ( you may be asked to prove the postage).