JSA - Terrified - only been signed on for 2 weeks.

[zazen.warrior]

I apply online for IT Jobs but i take along a print out of all these deatils, but some staff say its ok, others insisit that I must scribble in their naff little booklet.Andy

 

I apply for most jobs this way, it is the nature of the jobs being applied for and I also used to take a print out as 'proof'.

 

However one day I got a sound telling off for not filling in the booklet, now I fill in every perishing detail, every search, email, letter, phone call, note down each rejection, and always enclose the last fortnights rejection emails/ letters in my little plastic folder when I go in.

 

Mostly they just hand me the form to sign with little conversation as I leave them with no grounds for criticism.

[zazen.warrior]

Just had my fortnightly signing. Despite arriving at the right time I spent 45 minutes waiting with my head buried in a book oblivious to all about me - my chosen way of coping with it.

 

Then a conversation with one of the most listless and bored looking people I have ever met.

 

Repeating for no doubt the umpteenth time that day, in the most unenthusiastic voice imaginable they droned 'What have you been doing to look for work?'

 

Answer 'Well presumably you have read the booklet..?'

 

Listless voice continues: 'What has been the response?'

 

'Presumably you have also looked a the seven rejection letters I enclosed'

 

Listless one continues 'Is there anything else I can do to help you?'

 

Resisting the urge to point out that they have not in fact ever done anything to help me, I replied with a slightly abrupt 'no'

 

End of.

 

Out of the door for another fortnight.

Edited September 4, 2009 by zazen.warrior

[geoff1248]

So ladies & gents what we have is a very complex system which does not seem to be fit for purpose. It is very easy to criticise this system but lets have some serious suggestions as to what can be done to get it working as it should.

If you were starting the system again from scratch just what would you do?

[zazen.warrior]

Frankly I would give the unemployed enough to live on and leave them alone.

 

The employable would get jobs, the unemployable would remain so and the taxpayer would not pay for Emma to have another wing added to her castle.

[geoff1248]

"Frankly I would give the unemployed enough to live on and leave them alone."

 

Don't think so, I suspect the tax payers would be up in arms by this.

 

Care to define what is "enough to live on"?

[ajax95]

Just had my fortnightly signing. Despite arriving at the right time I spent 45 minutes waiting with my head buried in a book oblivious to all about me - my chosen way of coping with it.

 

Then a conversation with one of the most listless and bored looking people I have ever met.

 

Repeating for no doubt the umpteenth time that day, in the most unenthusiastic voice imaginable they droned 'What have you been doing to look for work?'

 

Answer 'Well presumably you have read the booklet..?'

 

Listless voice continues: 'What has been the response?'

 

'Presumably you have also looked a the seven rejection letters I enclosed'

 

Listless one continues 'Is there anything else I can do to help you?'

 

Resisting the urge to point out that they have not in fact ever done anything to help me, I replied with a slightly abrupt 'no'

 

End of.

 

Out of the door for another fortnight.

 

Sums up the experience and the "advisers" I had during a previous spell "jobseeking"

[Satoriea]

Hi gillin

are u married or with a partner if not you can go on income support. be brave and make a complaint and state you want to see someone else to deal with your claim. Things have changed they are becoming more strict with the job search thing. I';m sorry JUST LIE. I did when I was on job seekers, b4 i had to go on income support until i actually found jobs that I wanted I pretended I sent of for jobs. Just write a list.

[skonk]

I agree it's all about trying to catch you out, not you help you out. There's another thread somewhere where I mention about asking the JCP about wanting to work for trading standards, but need qualifications, and being advised that I'm better off lowering my standards and going for retail jobs like ASDA or Tesco.

 

You only need to go in, knowing what job you want, and you ask them for the help you need to get the job, and the majority just don't have a clue.

[zazen.warrior]

"

 

Don't think so, I suspect the tax payers would be up in arms by this."?

 

As they will be when they finally cotton on to how much A4E and their fellow travellers get for doing nothing.

[geoff1248]

Am I right in thinking that if the JobCentres did their job correctly then there would be no need for A4e etc?

[Jan4a]

From another perspective ...

 

I used to recruit in a previous role and detested using the JobCentre even though free. Reason for this was you got inundated with unsuitable applicants that you had to wade through and reply to (Yes, I replied to everyone - I think it really bad manners to just ignore applications!). When you arranged interviews you had to arrange double the amount you actually wanted because you could guarantee half wouldn't turn up.

 

All this is because JobCentre forces people to appy for jobs they aren't suitable for - so also wastes employers time and prevents them using JobCentre. I much preferred advertising in the local papers - only people who actually wanted and were suitable for the job applied.

 

I do remember getting calls from JobCentre asking for names off applicants. didn't always provide them as there were far too many. I'm going back about 5 years though, don't know if its changed now.

[deadlydoug]

hmm yes i have found job agencies more helpful and better,but even these days some off these decide who to forward for jobs or.remember if job agencies fill a job they get paid by company for doing so,even temp work when i last did it ,i was paid 7.50 PH and i know the agency was charging between 12-13£ PH and you were not entitled to breaks as these are deducted from hours you worked-holidays also.Anyway i digress-the JC have to follow thier own rules and if they dont then complain ,as its your tax money that is paying for them to be in work.There is also the fact that before this recession the government was cutting back on JC staff and only recently got a move on,but some louts may have slipped through who think that they have the power to order people to do as they say.if they get bossy or arogant just ask for the supervisor or manager

[Guest]

i wish they would give me a job in the j/c with my bipolar and all hey ho i could complete the circus as the star attraction

[FitzWilliam]

This is because JobCentre forces people to apply for jobs they aren't suitable for ...

 

I do remember getting calls from JobCentre asking for names of applicants. didn't always provide them as there were far too many. I'm going back about 5 years though, don't know if its changed now.

 

Thanks Jan,

 

Yes, jobcentres still check with employers whether clients have applied for jobs they give them. If they send someone for a job they give the jobseeker a printout called a 'Client Copy', and a few weeks later they phone the employer to check that they applied.

 

In the past I've been given Client Copies with typos in the phone numbers (digits reversed so you call a wrong number) or personal names misspelt (so you write to Mr Johnson instead of Mr Johnston, etc) or the name of someone who left the company months ago.

 

The last time the jobcentre got a false negative and accused me of not applying for a job was a few weeks ago when I had emailed for the job.

 

In a jobcentre letter they said, 'When speaking to the employer in this case she informed me that no contact had been made by you.'

 

But I had kept the email correspondence. I printed it out so they could see that the Office Manager of the company had replied to me saying, 'Thank you for your interest in [company name]. We are in the process of short listing candidates ... [etc].'

 

Because I had the proof I was not sanctioned. (So always keep your proof of application.)

 

The letters they send accusing people of not applying for jobs are known as 'doubt has arised' letters (ES195REJP).

 

The latest one I received has a box on the first page headed 'The reason you gave for not taking the opportunity was.' Then someone at the jobcentre has written for me, 'Did not apply,' even though they had never spoken to me before sending the letter.

 

On the second page there is a loaded question, 'Do you wish to comment on the reasons why you refused / failed to apply / failed to accept the opportunity?'

 

And then next there is a box for your explanation headed, 'Please give full details of why your failed to take advantage of the opportunity.'

 

You can see the appallingly negative tone of all this and the implicit assumption that the jobseeker must not have applied for the job. I'm used to it now but it confused me the first time.

 

So in short ...

• If you get a 'Client Copy' always apply for the job
  
• When you apply keep your proof
  
• And if they accuse you of not applying say 'I did apply for the job' and then give details of the application with your proofs
  

If you do these things you should be okay.

[andydd]

I apply for most jobs this way, it is the nature of the jobs being applied for and I also used to take a print out as 'proof'.

 

However one day I got a sound telling off for not filling in the booklet, now I fill in every perishing detail, every search, email, letter, phone call, note down each rejection, and always enclose the last fortnights rejection emails/ letters in my little plastic folder when I go in.

 

Mostly they just hand me the form to sign with little conversation as I leave them with no grounds for criticism.

 

Your situation seems to mirror mine, I now put in the 'book' looked on t'internet, I have 100's of stored applications, emails, etc if they wish to follow it up further.

 

The JC is not set up for any sort of professional, the example pre-printed in the booklet 'Went to gregs bakers' just about sums it up.

 

Andy

[andydd]

Just had my fortnightly signing. Despite arriving at the right time I spent 45 minutes waiting with my head buried in a book oblivious to all about me - my chosen way of coping with it.

 

Then a conversation with one of the most listless and bored looking people I have ever met.

 

Repeating for no doubt the umpteenth time that day, in the most unenthusiastic voice imaginable they droned 'What have you been doing to look for work?'

 

Answer 'Well presumably you have read the booklet..?'

 

Listless voice continues: 'What has been the response?'

 

'Presumably you have also looked a the seven rejection letters I enclosed'

 

Listless one continues 'Is there anything else I can do to help you?'

 

Resisting the urge to point out that they have not in fact ever done anything to help me, I replied with a slightly abrupt 'no'

 

End of.

 

Out of the door for another fortnight.

 

Ha...Another of your posts has made me giggle, again..ssoo familiar, I find the wait to be seen is not getting longer and longer, seems little point of getting there on time yet alone early these days.

 

There is plenty they could do to help, advanced tweaking of my CV, mock interviews maybe, pay for an advanced IT course like MCSE, etc..but none of that is going to happen, just useless advice like , 'why dont you just take any job and then look for the one you want', oh well...*shakes head*

 

Andy

[andydd]

From another perspective ...

 

I used to recruit in a previous role and detested using the JobCentre even though free. Reason for this was you got inundated with unsuitable applicants that you had to wade through and reply to (Yes, I replied to everyone - I think it really bad manners to just ignore applications!). When you arranged interviews you had to arrange double the amount you actually wanted because you could guarantee half wouldn't turn up.

 

All this is because JobCentre forces people to appy for jobs they aren't suitable for - so also wastes employers time and prevents them using JobCentre. I much preferred advertising in the local papers - only people who actually wanted and were suitable for the job applied.

 

I do remember getting calls from JobCentre asking for names off applicants. didn't always provide them as there were far too many. I'm going back about 5 years though, don't know if its changed now.

 

 

Yep..Ive been given some info about completely unsuitable jobs and no..not much has changed in 5-6 years (the last and first time I had to sign on).

 

Andy

[skonk]

Has anyone experienced the look of shock when you tell an advisor that you have an up to date cv, so don't need any help in making one? The majority of the time they are not expecting someone with a brain to speak to them with a bit of intelligence. Seems like they're not trained for that!

[insyder]

That last comment is just insulting and patronising...the same as jobcentre staff are being labelled, ironically,

[skonk]

That last comment is just insulting and patronising...the same as jobcentre staff are being labelled, ironically,

 

Those people are being paid to help jobseekers, so no excuse for them to be insulting and patronising, as you say. Besides, I'm only speaking from experience. I've said earlier that some advisors are genuine, but not the majority of ones I've dealt with, so take that comment which ever way you want.

Edited September 5, 2009 by skonk

[zazen.warrior]

Those people are being paid to help jobseekers, so no excuse for them to be insulting and patronising, as you say. Besides, I'm only speaking from experience. I've said earlier that some advisors are genuine, but not the majority of ones I've dealt with, so take that comment which ever way you want.

 

I feel many people have shared your experience.

Edited September 5, 2009 by zazen.warrior

[deadlydoug]

i agree but it depends totally on ones perspective on what JC's are and what the people are like.Most people see it as a (rightly so) government big brother dept to see what you are upto and someway of stopping your monies.Some-i repeat some of the staff-are only interested in staying in civil servant job for the pension.But we all need to remember that they are only doing a job and have to work within certain rules.There are those who let the small power they have go to thier heads and feel that they can be obnoxiuos and nasty to those who have problems.If you come across such speak to manager as these people have no place in society or a job like that

[zazen.warrior]

I actually feel quite sorry for front line job centre staff - although I feel this will not fully kick in until I no longer have to visit them.

 

They are stuck there all day and it must be an absolute nightmare of a job, having said that some chose 'coping methods' which are not appropriate to dealing with vulnerable people.

[Jan4a]

oh my God .... applied for an Exec Officer in the JC as suggested by my personal adviser, not expecting anything to happen and I've had a letter today saying I've passed first phase of recruitment process but due to high number of applicants it will be sometime in next 6 months before I hear from them.....

 

Whilst its a job and happy to work and they have all been nice people in my job centre its not really my area. Still, if I ever do get anywhere at least I know from here how not to treat people!!

 

And its only 18 month temp anyway so even if I hated it I could stand it for that long. Not very encouraging that my personal adviser has told me she's trying to leave either.

[FitzWilliam]

There are those who let the small power they have go to thier heads and feel that they can be obnoxiuos and nasty to those who have problems.If you come across such speak to manager as these people have no place in society or a job like that.

 

Complaining to the jobcentre about bad staff can be effective.

 

At my jobcentre the security guard is now forbidden to speak to at least three clients who have complained about her. Between them, these three men have been arrested five times following malicious complaints to the police by the security guard.

 

A good place to receive sympathy and help over jobcentre problems is the local CAB. Sometimes people go there if they are too afraid to complain directly to the jobcentre.

 

To give just one brief example, I know of a case from May 2008 where someone 'very vulnerable' complained about the same security guard. The CAB staff were upset by this person's story and the CAB manager personally took over the case to act as their representative with the jobcentre.

 

I don't know the outcome of that, but I do know that the CAB will fight every corner for people who are otherwise defenceless.