Welcome Tangle In The Darkness.

[1984Dodge]

Hello CAGGERS and Welcome victims. I am starting this thread to try and get to the bottom of the pit that is Welcome Finance.

I took a car on finance from them in Oct 2007. All was well until I was diagnosed with an illness and unable to work. Things got really bad and I was unable to keep up with the payments the local office I had (in London) had some real cowboys working there, I was harassed and threatend and made to feel so worried about it all that I buried my head under the sand. I was last called by them to be told that the car had been reposessed and that I still owed the outstanding balance, this was a lie but I dont understand why I was on the phone looking at the car whilst this so called agent smugly told me it had been recovered from outside my adress. I had never received statements or any correspondance except for the charge letters for pone calls etc. Last year I requested statements and they actualy sent me someone elses paperwork with all of their details on it ( great data protection) ! It has only been recently that I have attemted to tackle this problem and I have had some help on other threads

Unfortunately I have lost my CCA and the fake statements they sent me whilst moving house, but I remember clearly that the copy I walked (drove) away with was not signed by them. I CCA and SAR 'd them in July and have now had a response from them. The cca they have sent has been signed which means it is fake as I know for definate that the executed agreement was not signed by them ( I wish I could turn back the clocks and find the paperwork). Also, the outstanding amount they claim that I owe is a lot higher then the debt they have filed on my credit file. They have also put a default against me I would love to know if they have done this lawfully as rading the other threads I have learnt that they dont do much lawfully!

They told me that the agreement had been re-written over the phone and that the initial lower payment would commence this new agreement. I refused to make this payment because they kept on bamboozleing me with figures and equations that did not add up. I was called as late as 10:30 pm from withheld mobiles and threatend over the phone by agents.

Why would they lie and claim to have reposesed the car?

How can I tell if the agreement that they claim to hold on me is enforceable?

The Default notice I have is titled Without Prejudice, what does this mean?

(There is a default on my credit file)

 

Could anyone who is more familiar with this company and its procedures be willing to look at my agreement for me if I email or post it.

 

Thanks CAG and thanks to others who have already and are about to help me especialy Postggj and Andie) I think its great and I appreciate the support.

 

1984

[1984Dodge]

bump

[Fester Tester]

Sounds like some other poor sod had his car repossessed by mistake. LOL

[postggj]

me thinks welcome dont have an agreement

right

first thing

 

you can not re-write an agreement over the phone

 

you would need to go into an office and sign an agreement to modify the first

 

most agreements welcome force ppi on you

 

you said you were ill and could not work

 

did you make a claim on the ppi

 

do you still have the car

[T2upNorth]

Hi 1984Dodge

 

Well, to start, it's not unusual for the customer copy not to be signed, generally the original will be signed by them afterwards.

 

Incredible that they said it had been repo'd when you were looking at it - but as Fester-Tester said, perhaps they repo'd the car from the other persons statement? It's a shame you don't still have those, I'm sure that person and the Info Commissioner would be interested to hear about that.

 

A default notice is a special document which must be worded correctly. It absolutely cannot have "without prejudice" on it, to do so would mean it can't be disclosed in court without both parties consent.

 

How many payments did you make? Did you pay over 1/3 or 1/2 of the total payable? Do you still have the car?

 

If possible, post what you have up here, minus identifying info.

 

As far as I know an agreement can't be rewritten over the phone, you would have to sign it.

 

Did they properly comply with your CCA and SAR?

Could it be the DN was knocked up after you SAR'd them, WP'd because they know it's rubbish?

 

Also, did you have PPI/mechanical/gap insurances etc.?

 

Have you done a HPI check on the car (assuming you still have it)?

 

Good Luck!

T2

[T2upNorth]

Aha, Postggj beat me to it!

[1984Dodge]

Thanks POSTGGJ & T2 im glad to have your help.

Im looking at the default notice and it says in Bold letters 'Without Prejudice'

I still have the car it is in my dads garage! The Sh=t really hit the fan last November (of all times of the year!) when I received a driving disqualification for 12 months!

I didn't pay over 1/2 or a third and I do have shortfall I dont think I have ppi as it was so expensive I refused to have it, even though they tried to pressure me I would like to know if I have.

Have not done HPI check do you know how I can do this for free online?

They did not aknowledge cca they just refered to both requests with a thank you for the sar and the £11 fee ( I sent two letters each containing po £1 + £10). They then sent me a letter saying thankyou for sar with two pages from an alleged agreement and a few statements. Then A week later with a large envelope containing statements, Alleged agreement and call logs etc with a cover letter again thanking me for sar request. SO NO I DONT THINK THEY COMPLIED WITH CCA.

I would definatley appreciate it if you could look at the content as I just don't have the right brain settings to comprehend the dif figures. I'll try to get them up soon. Surely they cannot file a default with the credit agencies unless legally documented...Can I have it removed?

I am defo thinking that they dont have a proper executed agreement and that is why they were so agressive when I stopped paying, because I paid ontime the whole time until then. Postggj me also thinks that they don't have a proper agreement

Thanks everyone.

Edited September 2, 2009 by 1984Dodge
missed a bit out

[T2upNorth]

OK.

The thing to remember is Welcome are on their knees and are desparate for cash. Be very careful, and never show your hand.

First off, the DN is not a DN because it cannot comply if it's WP. They may as well send you the words "Default Notice" on a sweet wrapper for all it's worth.

I'm not aware of any sites where you can get the HPI details you need for free. If you google it you will find some cheap ones and hopefully someone will pitch in with a recommendation on that. It may be cheeky but you could "offer" to sell it to a local garage who will, no doubt, do a HPI check. Note: if that's a naughty thing to say, I apologise and will remove it, just a thought!

Becase you are under the 1/3 they could, legally repo without a court order. However, because of the faulty DN the repo would actually be unlawful unless they serve a correct one first. Given the fact you are on a ban - that may not be a bad thing.... more on that later (meaning if they fail to serve a proper DN before repo)

Phone Direct Group Direct Group - Where Insurance and Innovation Combine - Home Page and ask for all info on your insurances. Don't tell them why, apart from you need it for your records because of losing your copies (or whatever). If they get funny you will need to SAR them. They will probably try to palm you off with the policy wording - you need everything! Don't say you are making a claim or in dispute or in any way let slip that you are fighting back....

Welcome are not good at acknowledging anything - it doesn't change the fact you have sent both CCA and SAR and they are obliged to conform with both requests. To comply with CCA they should have sent a legible copy of the CCA and a full statement. The SAR will probably be more revealing because of the alleged rewrite.

 

Postggj will, I hope, add to this.

 

cheers

T2

Edited September 2, 2009 by T2upNorth
add fact...

[T2upNorth]

... just did a quick google re HPI, the cheaper ones don't always give the HP info you need - check the smallprint before paying!

[1984Dodge]

T2 thanks.

I will contact Direct group in the am.

Am I being slow?... Didnt understand what you meant re a repo would be good considering I am on ban? I get my license back in november not long to go now! Tell me more. They did respond twice but both times the cover letters refer to sar not cca also they sent a letter when they confirmed receipt of my requests but they only mentioned sar thanking me for £11 even though I sent a cca with £1 and sar with £10 ! It feels as though they are trying to avoid sending me a cca....................I WONDER WHY ?

. Thanks again I will contact insurance ,anything else I can do, does this mean that they are breach and I can issue dispute letter of some sort as they not aknowledged cca? I really can't wait to see them on the curb. ps good idea re hp check thanks.

[T2upNorth]

Happy to help!

No not slow - an illegal repo would terminate any agreement - illegally! As such you could then claim a refund of ALL payments made, plus, potentially, the car would be a gift from them to you. Potentially - cross that bridge if you come to it. In the meantime if it's garaged then it's "under wraps" so to speak. They can force you to disclose it's whereabouts using s80 of CCA (I think, need to check) but that would take more time.

 

Their responses are meaningless, ignore them. They have acknowledged both by stating £11. Wait and see what you get. But, if I understand correctly they have previously sent a CCA and statement? Assuming they are genuine then they have complied with the CCA - I wouldn't put much store on their signature being on the supplied copy but not the original.

 

Except.... if they are saying the CCA was rewritten then they should have supplied the new agreement under CCA (and both under SAR) - if the new agreement is unsigned by you then it was never executed....

 

I would hold off on the dispute letter depending on seeing what you have received so far, again Postggj can add to this.

 

Anything you can post up here via photobucket (minus identifying info) would help.

 

Also, remember - only commuicate in writing - never by phone.

Any letters you send print your name, never sign.

Only use Postal Orders to pay for CCA/SAR, never cheque, debit card, cash etc.

Always recorded signed for....

Edited September 2, 2009 by T2upNorth

[T2upNorth]

Just a thought - was there anything else in your SAR response? Specifically insurance underwriting sheets, anything to do with commission?

[1984Dodge]

Im glad your happy to help. I'll explain:

3rd aug I have sent them the SAR with a po for £10 recorded delivery.

I have sent (same day ) cca with po £1 recprded delivery.

around 2 weeks later I received a letter thanking me for Sar and elleven pound fee and that it was being processed.

About a week and half later they sent letter thanking for sar and enclosed agreement and statement of account (agreement only 2 pages?) and statements show fees that i dont understand.

A further 3 days later I receive a larger envelope again thanking me for sar! and enclosed agreement (again 2 pages!), soa's, and call logs...........

So to date no aknowledgment or production of cca other than the aknowledgment of £11.!

I don't know what to make of it!

[T2upNorth]

OK. great. It would be really helpful if you scan them up here minus identifying details. To comply the CCA must contain certain info.

 

Fees you don't understand? Welcome to the world of Welcome!

 

I must sign off now, if Postggj doesn't pop in I'll PM him to take a look tomorrow.

In the meantime it looks like you're on solid ground, as usual Welcome appear to have tripped themselves up....

 

Have a good night.

I'll be back!

 

T2

[1984Dodge]

Ill be checking back in in the morn thanks T2

Good night Welcome!

[1984Dodge]

Ok I'm about to attempt to post the Doc's received in the Sar from wf.

Back soon.

[T2upNorth]

OK, will jump back in when they are on. remember to remove all identifying info - including car reg/chassis number, agreement numbers etc....

[1984Dodge]

oK Help please!

 

I have uploaded docs to photobucket, how do I translate them to CAG ?

 

Sorry that I am not very good at this.

 

thanks

 

1984

[1984Dodge]

Bump

[1984Dodge]

Sorry T2 just noticed you are back as promised....................Thanks

 

1984

[1984Dodge]

N/A

Edited September 2, 2009 by 1984Dodge
Post'd twice

[T2upNorth]

Good stuff, you got it. I'll take a look through now, at work though so can't spend too much time on it just now. I'll PM Postggj now too

 

T2

[1984Dodge]

Ok I mangaed to suss photobucket.

 

I also have the followin:

 

Statements of account.

Call/ Ac Log notes.

Wf repo agent intro letter.

Original proof doc copies(passport,bank statements, employment contract payslips etc).

Ucan car credit documentation checklist.

Settlement statement.

Uplift instructions.

Carcraft payout checklist

 

 

 

And the response they sent to my cca and sar as explained to t2 earlier in this thread.

 

Let me know If I can help you guys to help me in any way.

 

Thanks CAG, Thanks CAGGERS, Thanks T2, Thanks POSTGGJ

Edited September 2, 2009 by 1984Dodge

[T2upNorth]

These would also be useful:

 

Ucan car credit check sheet.

Statements of account.

 

Settlement statement.

Repo agent introduction letter.

 

Carcraft- Payout Checklist

 

Again - remove sensitive info.

 

However, first off, they said the agreement was rewrittem (which you didn't sign). I only see 1 agreement.

There are no notes, screenshots, correspondence, phone transcripts etc.

Certainly not a full disclosure.....

[1984Dodge]

Ok T2 Ive read the logs and there is mention of the new rate etc. I was gonna get to this but they have it shown on statement and log that I paid a £142 cash payment on a new agreed lesser amount this is untrue.

 

Guys pm me and I will email further details as requested by T2 I do not want to divulge to much info in public, there may be unwanted guests etc.

 

Thanks for showing an interest.