Moorcroft debt recovery & old goldfish debt

[onlyontuesdays]

...never rains - but it pours!

 

I received a letter from Moorcroft last week. It had the heading of 'Home Collections Divisions'

 

because i will not answer the phone to them

they want me to make an appointment with them so that one of their "representatives" can come

and see me to "chat" about the my £8000 debt to Goldfish.

 

I had previously ( stupidly) being paying them £120/month towards this debt.

And then because i couldn't really afford it, i stopped - Putting food on the table was more important!!!!!

 

They now inform me that they will accept £90 instead!!!!

 

If i fail to arrange an appointment, or pay the £90/month, they will " ...

...have no option but to instruct an external solicitor to commence legal proceedings".

 

.....my only concern here is that i work away from home all week and my wife is at home with 2 young children

- i don't want any person hassling my wife - she's having a hard enough time as it is.

 

Please advise on what i need to do - my access to the forum/internet is limited so i don't have a great deal of research time.

 

Many Thanks

 

*STRESSED*

[cerberusalert]

First send them a CCA request to see if they are entitled to collect this debt & if it's enforcable. If they fail to provide it within 12+2 days or the CCA is unenforcable you can legally withold any payment until they do. Send it recorded delivery enclosing a £1 postal order. When you get a reply, scan it & remove any identifying details and post it back here where we can have a look at it. We'll advise you from there;

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:- Account No: XXXXXXXX/Your Reference Number: XXXXXXX

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR). I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

Furthermore, with regards to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

You are reminded of the following under Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

 

Trading Standards can bring about a prosecution if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under contract, he or she:

 

(a) harasses the other with demands for payment which by their frequency, or the manner or occasion of their making, or any accompanying threat or publicity are calculated to subject him or his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation;

(b) falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;

© falsely represent themselves to be authorized in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment;

(d) utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character or purporting to have some official character which he knows it has not.

 

I am of the view that your harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Further to this if it is your intention to arrange a call from your 'Doorstep Collectors', I note that there is only an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

 

Take note, I revoke license under English Common Law for you, or any of your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so without my permission, you will then be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless. Any trespassers you attempt to send therefore will be dealt with accordingly.Be further advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

(Optional addition)

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully **Edit to suit**

 

(Print do not sign signature)

[MARTIN3030]

Will move your thread.

[Enron]

This will be invaluable to you, its the OFT Debt Collection Guidance (on unfair practices).

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

 

The firms have to obide by its contents or they could get in trouble with the OFT, which many of them are reluctant to do.

 

With reference to the appointment that they have asked for you to make, as with all these things DCAs attempt to abuse a persons lack of knowledge. Do you want an appointment, well no so there is not need to respond unless you want to send the template letter to them.

 

Without an appointment they'd be very stupid to turn up as they would be clearly be operating contrary to the guidelines, for which you could report the DCA to the OFT, state that you remove your common law permission for them to be on your land, and if they continue to remain and harass you can always call the police stating that they are breaching the peace.

 

If they are unreasonable with their phone calls and harass you, i.e. just a couple a week could constitute harassment then once more inform them you are reporting them to the OFT, and do it, and if they persist Trading Standards are normally quite handy in halting their actions.

 

Hope this info is of help, and it might be an idea to read the guidance as it can be invaluable.

[mcg68]

For what its worth, I dodged calls from them for about 6 months and got letters from their "Home Collections Division" which I ignored as well. Eventually the debt was passed to someone else (Capquest I think) and I have since learned about CCA requests and they have all started to go away and stop bothering me.

Letters like this are designed to scare you and I doubt they even have a Home Collections Division. But I know how worrying all this can be. Send them a CCA letter to get them off your back.

Mick

[dpick]

Hi as mcg says above these letter are designed to get you to ring them, I have been a member of CAG since Feb 2007 and while I have seen hundreds of posts with this letter regarding door step collections I have only seen a handfull of instances where someone has called.

 

If someone does call just tell them to bogg off and slam the door in their face or even better on their foot if they are twit enough to stick it in.

 

dpick

[onlyontuesdays]

...... the CCA request has been sent - and upto now no phone calls!

 

.....it did occur to me earlier...what happens to the money that i have already paid? - is this recoverable? or is it best forgotten.......

[Huff&Puff]

You will have to forgt any money that has been paid Even if they don't have an enforeable agreement, a court will still look on any money that you have paid them as a "gift".

[minmac]

Moorcroft have threatened me loads with doorstep collection. They have NEVER once sent anyone. Once it eventually gets past to scotcall they usually send an agent. The lady who comes to my door brings her kids with her, lol like thats gonna make me pay. Now I just open the door and as soon as I see its her I just close the door without saying a word. And she goes away.

[mikexlr8]

How can they send anyone to your house without a CCJ?

[mcg68]

They can't - can they?

I doubt that anyone coming to your door has any more legal right to be there than a salesman trying to sell you tea-towels.

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi, Onlyontuesdays,

 

I asked for a copy of my alleged Goldfish agreement last year. It has never arrived, and I have never seen anyone on this site posting a copy of a real Goldfish agreement. A couple of strange-looking application forms have appeared, but most of us have received nothing. Barclaycard now own Goldfish, and I did get a few calls from Mercers/Calders, their in-house debt collection team, but nothing for ages.

 

In your first post you say that they are saying that they "will" have no option to .... Are you sure the letter doesn't say they "may", because that's the usual wording. It's designed to frighten, rather than meaning that they will actually start legal action.

 

Minmac, I'm absolutely appalled that a debt collector would actually take her children with her on dc visits. This is very wrong, and I'm sure there must be some guidelines which say she shouldn't be doing that. If this is Scotcall you must be able to report them to OFT. I'm sure they would not approve of this practice.

 

Mike, they can send debt collectors to your house without a CCJ. Bailiffs may come if there is a CCJ, but they have to follow strict guidelines, although often they don't unless they come up against someone who knows their legal rights.

[minmac]

They can't - can they?

I doubt that anyone coming to your door has any more legal right to be there than a salesman trying to sell you tea-towels.

 

No they dont have any legal rights to do anything. I think they just do this because they know people can be brave over the phone or in writing but when dealing with a collection agent face to face they think you might cave and pay. DONT, treat door step collectors the exact same as you would by phone or letter. In my case I ignore all letters and when they phone I either hang up immediately or say " hold the line please" and start singing down the phone until they say some obscenity and hang up lol. :D

[onlyontuesdays]

well, as suggested, i sent off s CCAs, one to Connaught and one to Moorcroft.

 

Connaught replied within 2 days, with what i can only believe to be a standard format reply. ( see Letter1.pdf).

 

Moorcroft replied 2 days later with what i would term a slightly more 'confrontational' letter. ( see Letter2.pdf).

 

THEN THIS MORNING!!!!!!! ( Monday the 14th Sept) this arrived, which i can only describe as a threat!!! ( see Letter3.pdf).

 

I'm kind of guessing here that Connaught are playing by the book - Moorcroft however are not - Can they do this?....Is it worth contacting them to find out what they are playing at, or is that what they want me to do?....I'm confused by this - not to mention LIVID!!!

 

Need a bit of advice from you good people!!!!!

 

many thanks

 

OOT

Letter1.pdf

Letter2.pdf

Letter3.pdf

Edited September 14, 2009 by onlyontuesdays

[Enron]

Standard Moorcroft scare letter I think, these are sent out with an aim to get you to cough up, and rarely result in any action.

 

Lloyds TSB Bank Plc as owner of the alleged debt would normally instigate any action, and not a third party DCA.

 

If Lloyds TSB Bank Plc are technically the owner of the alleged debt then a CCA should be made to them, however if the DCA follows procedure it should forward any such request to them.

[debt4get]

letter 3 is just one of their usual 'threatograms' all 'we may' wait for them to send cca if you have requested one, and if not do so immediately, they have 12+2 working days to reply otherwise account goes into default, when you do not have to offer payment nor can they ask

[debt4get]

letter 2 just ignore its absolute nonesense that we have come to expect from moorcrap, they have already put account on hold, sit and wait post up whatever they send minus your details...these people are easy to deal with just dont fret, or Ring them EVER, insist on writing only

[dcakiller]

Letters 1 and 2 look like standrad mince. I would put in a complaint about letter 3 to the oft and trading standards and also moorcrofts own complains deptment. ps the alleged amounts outstanding are showing on letters 1 and 3 it is advisable to remove these ase dca's do look at this forum.

[catwoman150]

I have had letter 2 and letter 3. Letter 1 I have had from Moorcroft with the same wording as this one. I think that they are only threats as I am starting with a collection from moorcroft now.

[findingthecheese]

Hi onlyontuesdays!

 

I've also received letters 2 & 3. I'd previously written to Hfx requesting a copy of my CCA - it hasn't arrived....and I haven't paid! I sent the usual 'bemused' so 'prove it' letter to Moorcroft and I'm still waiting for a response (it's been weeks now)!

 

ftc.

[onlyontuesdays]

.....just thinking this over.....

 

The waiting time of 12+2 working days.... does this start from the date i sent the CCA ( registered) or from the date they acknowledged it - and is the cut off from the date of their reply ( if they provide info) or the date i receive it.

 

this potentially could add upto 4 days, except of course our friends at Moorcroft who sent me a letter dated 1 sept, postmark shows 9 sept and it arrived with me 14 sept!!!!!!!

 

more to the point, if they cannot satisfy my request for CCA, are they obliged to write and tell me, or do they just go harass someone else?

 

 

thanks OOT

[minmac]

The date you sent it.

[debt4get]

if they cannot supply your request, and they normally have a problem..you will normally get a letter, saying we have asked oc for details account on hold for xxxx days, whilst we retrieve info....however after time limits are up account in default

[onlyontuesdays]

....however after time limits are up account in default

 

is there anyway they can enforce this at a later date if they do get a copy of the info?

 

....sorry, it might seem an obvious question to most but not to me!!!

 

thanks again everyone for your replies and support

 

OOT

[minmac]

Yes if they get hold of the cca then they can enforce it even if its 4yrs down the line. (assuming that the cca is enforceable thatis).