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    • Hi   I could be wrong here so could @namedisplay please clarify if I am correct or completely wrong?   In your post#1 you mention that due to your health issues and your mental state at the time you rang the Training Room and was told it would cost and initial £200 and then £15 per month until you finished the course.   Then further in post#1 The Training Room told you you were not eligible for an extension because you hadn't completed enough of the course.   With the above I now refer Post#12 which mentions your circumstances are covered by 13 in the TTR Terms and Conditions.   What is mentioned above seems conflicting from TTR for the following:   1. IMO that money of £200 and then £15 per month (on top of original Course Fees) was them at that time agreeing to an extension as per 13 in TTR Terms and Conditions   2. Them stating you can't extend Course as not completed enough of Course is not in TTR Terms and Conditions (that I and others can see) (Note they could be referring to 15 in TTR Terms and Conditions)   Can you clarify the above and were you informed those extra costs were due to an extension of your Course.   Again I will ask did you provide the Training Room with Medical Evidence when you asked the above?   We also still need to see the Letter from Training Room Threatening Legal Action (fully redacted) which you still haven't posted?   You need to send The Training Room a Subject Access Request (SAR) asking for 'ALL DATA' that simple phrase means whatever format they hold that data in whether it be written, email, recorded phone calls etc.   They then have 30 Calendar Days to respond to your SAR Request and that Time Limit only starts once they have acknowledged your SAR Request. They can extend that Time Limit if they need to prove identity before actioning the SAR Request so be aware of that.   A SAR Request is now FREE and make sure you get Free Proof of Posting from the Post Office     Your right of access ICO.ORG.UK   Can you please make sure you answer the questions asked of Caggers to assist you    
    • I've been trying to resolve a issue with 8 PCN issued by Tyne Tunnel 2 (tt2.co.uk). Tyne Tunnel 2 is a gated toll charged tunnel to cross the River Tyne in Newcastle. We moved in recently so all a bit new to us. My dad had been using the tunnel about twice a week and he had been paying cash for the toll fee at the booths. At some point in November 2021 they had done some constructions where the gates had been closed and payments had transitioned to online methods. My dad had been oblivious to this and been on his merry way multiple times thinking that he doesn't need to pay. So he received the first PCN some where end of November which had been issue on the 26th after which point I went on alert and sorted out the online accounts and such. However the current total of fines has amounted to £255.20 and I have appealed explaining that soon as the letters were received we have resolved the issue but they insist on us paying 8 PCN. I feel it's unfair that the fine is for the same offence which we couldn't have rectified or known until we received the first PCN letter and after the first PCN we have rectified it so feel they are being bit draconic. Any advice on this matter? 
    • No need to apologise! I am extremely grateful for both your help   Gosh very good attention to detail going on here   Great thank you, i will put them back as below   Good evening to you   DEFENCE   1.     The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.     2.     Paragraph 1 is noted. It is accepted I have in the past had agreements with Lloyds TSB. I do not recall the precise details or agreement nor the claimant either, having failed to provide an agreement/account number within its particulars of claim and have therefore sought verification from the claimant.   3.     Paragraph 2 is noted but until such time the claimant can clarify the agreement account number any breach has yet to be proven.      4.     I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served by either the Claimant or Lloyds TSB pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925.   5. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am unaware of any Notice of default served.   6.     It is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant. The Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of the Agreement/Assignment/Default notice or Termination requested by CPR 31. 14.    Therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement ; and b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and c) Show or evidence a Default Notice /Notice of Sums in Arrears, d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   7.     As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.   8.     On the 5th of January 2022 I requested to The Claimants Solicitors, Mortimer Clarke by way of a CPR 31.14 copies of the documents referred to within the Claimants particulars to establish what the claim is for. Mortimer Clarke have failed to fulfil my CPR 31:14 request.   9.     On the 5th of January 2022 I made a section 78 legal request to the claimant for a copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement. The claimant has as of 27/01/22 failed to comply.   10.  By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
    • std letter the court send simply telling you the claimant has 28 days to do 'something' else the claim get autostayed.   go read a goof few 10's of PCN claimform threads.    
    • Update. I get the feeling they will try and take me all the way. Just have to wait and see. court letter..pdf
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Sky TV overcharging me


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Sky TV have been taking more money out of my account (£40+) than they should have for the past 20 months. I contacted them in Feb 08 to try & resolve this (it'd been going on for 3 months at that time) & they stated over the phone that they would resolve this & promised to credit my money back. I trusted them to do so but have only recently discovered, whilst doing a thorough check of my bank accounts, that they never actually did so. I have had severe family problems (acute/chronic illness) over this time and have only now been able to actually get on top of day-to-day household things. Once I realised what had happened I complained to them earlier this week & they sent an engineer round to check things to make sure there was no underlying problem. There wasn't. I was assured (via e-mail) that once sorted out, they'd credit my account the full money. The engineer yesterday also told me I would be entitled to a full refund (rather than credit). However today I received an email stating that since the original complaint was in Feb 08 they would not pay me any money back (despite the fact that I was assured then that this would be resolved). I haven't bothered watching TV in my bedroom since then (it was a matter of convenience but Sky + just meant it was more or less redundant) but did switch on everything now and then so I thought things would be updated via the phone (as per my contract). I replied to this horrible news complaining that I had previously been assured that I would be either fully credited or refunded and have now I received a further email stating they would credit my account for 6 months only! Can they do this?

 

All notices of increases in subscription charges since then have only quoted the amount I THOUGHT I was paying (and should have been paying), £60-odd, and not the actual amount they were taking from my account.

 

The problem in question is that I had subscribed to Sky Multiroom but they started to charge me for two Sky boxes after a glitch with our phone line (resolved at the time of the phone call in Feb 08). Can I take this any further? I am incredibly upset by this. Yes I should have checked my accounts more carefully, but all written correspondence since that time seem to point to it being resolved and I received no further notification from then since my phone call in Feb 08 to inform me otherwise, nor was there any mention whenever my subscription went up or down that I was paying for an extra box, just the £60-odd a month I thought I was paying. I was hoping for a full refund, or at the worst, a part credit/part refund but only 6 months is ridiculous, especially given their prior assurances. What would happen, if heavens forbid, I had to move to a property where I couldn't receive Sky (no plans to move but hypothetically speaking where would things stand)? Surely this is still my money? :confused:

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The terms of MultiRoom are quirte onerous, in so far as the billing of the second box at full rate is billed when the requisite number of callback proving the devices are in the same house - normally you spot this, and then complain, with thre result the problem (usually) resolves itself.

 

What you outline, however, is the best reason ever NEVER to give anyone access to your bank account. You must have control of your finances, and from what you outline, you were not in control. As to what they say they agreed and what they did, it is up to you to decide what you eill accept. Terminate and ask for a credit, or reach some form of accommodation that satisfies you, but for goodness sake - kill that DD.

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getting back 6 months is very unusual.

 

Ida x

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I just got to say that I have the exact same problem with Sky-and now I am beginning to think that there is a glich in their billing dept-I get the impression that somehow or other that I have been paying someone else's bills-

They have over charged me for a period of 18 months-and like you, I had no reason to suspect that Sky were doing anything other than collecting the monthly subscription from my dd account. To my horror I discovered that Sky had been repeatedly presenting & collecting substantial additional unauthorised payments from my account. One month Sky collected £210 as oppossed to the £81 subscription fee. ~They did this without my knowledge or consent. I wont even bother to go into my unpleasant experiences with Sky Customer Services Representatives-as I am quiet sure you have heard them already on this forum.

At the moment-I am still seeking a resolution to this problem. I am uncertain of how I should proceed. There is a part of me that is just plain sick & tired of trying to remain reasonable & calm and persist with my communication with them. I am on the verge of handing this problem over to someone better versed in these matters, better qualified than me to pursue the collection of the sum of the additional unauthorised payments Sky collected as payment from my account. I cant put into words just how angry & upset I am at Sky's actions, attitude & behaviour. To my mind this is nothing other than Customer Theft. I trusted them with access to my account via the direct debit agreement. I had absolutely no reason to suspect that Sky could or would choose to abuse that trust. I never once imagined that anything like this could occur and I personally am put off ever again paying anything by a DD agreement period.

I would really appreciate any advice/assistance any of you fine people may have for me in relation to this problem-as at this point in time, I think there is nothing for me but to head to court to seek a full refund of the money-as I personally have zero interest in receiving credit from Sky - I have no intention of ever having Sky TV in my home again.

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I trusted them with access to my account via the direct debit agreement. I had absolutely no reason to suspect that Sky could or would choose to abuse that trust. I never once imagined that anything like this could occur and I personally am put off ever again paying anything by a DD agreement period.

 

So the experience has taught you something? At least that has been useful - but at a cost. If only others would realise that a Direct Debit is not their 'friend' and the skewed financial inducements, incentives and 'fines' to those who choose to control their own finances, should never, EVER be permitted.

 

It fools the consumer that they are somehow 'saving money' and even that august forum MSE sings the praises of DD and recommending that people use them wherever possible - in my extended experience, this is a recipe for disaster. Nothing is assured, your lealth, work, fate - so why on earth build a financial house of cards that can not only collapse with the non appearance of the all-important monthly credit, but all those charges that the bank AND the requestor will charge you if the payment does not take place?

 

For your own problem, request a SAR for Sky - this will take some going through as you plough through the vatious debits, but will at least provide the paperwork to institute a Smal Claims action for the return of any incorrectly billed amounts, should Sky not agree with you.

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I feel like I should address you as "Sir" Buzby, as despite the fact that I am a total newbie to this forum-even I can recognise when i am in the presence of a great and wise one. Here's hoping that some of that wisdom can wash off on me!!!

Thank you for your response-It is greatly appreciated as presently I am at a loss as how best to proceed with the problem. After weeks of trying I eventually provoked a response from Sky - A person in their CR dept telephoned me and despite initially insisting that there was no problem-entered into discussions with me, as a result of this, I thought i had found someone at Sky who was interested in helping me resolve and rectify the situtation-However that was over 3 months ago at this point in time-and nothing has been addressed/resolved.

In short Sky have presented and collected via DD substantial unauthorised additonal payments from my bank account for a considerable period of time. They did this without my knowledge, awareness or consent -To date I have not received one piece of written or oral communication from them in relation to these additional charges/payments. I made the discovery when I telephoned them in relation to upgrading my package-the Customer Service Representative on the other end of the line provided me with this information-as She assummed that I was calling to complain about the additional charges! I wasnt on that occassion as I had not known of the additional charges/payments-but subsequently I was!

I personally am shocked at the way SKY have behaved and equally so I am angry at the Bank-because this is my money that Sky have been collecting and the BANK have been paying out-and nobody bothered to inform me!

I am aware of the direct debit gurantee-but when I contacted my Bank the day following making the discovery-(I was seeking statements from the Bank to identify the incorrect payments)I was informed that my contract was with Sky and really had nothing to do with them. I contacted numerous consumer groups/agencies whom all expressed doubts over the existence of a DD gurantee-eventually I found someone whom upon checking-agreed with me that such a thing does indeed exist. But as it took forever and a day to find anyone who was familiar witj the terms & conditions of a DD agreement and a DD guarantee-I considered my best of course of action was to pursue the matter with Sky and that unfortunately is what I am still doing and without much success-as months down the line-after numerous telephone calls, after numerous letters, emails, I am still in limbo-still not sure of where I stand (just that I know that I am still considerably out of pocket)& awating a decision from them.

I wonder now if infact It would have been a better course of action to have pursued this matter with the bank. I dont really know what to do-as I will readily admit that I am clueless when it comes to dealing with people who refuse to acknowledge my rights as a consumer. Sky and the Bank clearly feel that the Customer has no rights what so ever.

Thanks to you & this forum I am now going to find out what exactly is an SAR (as advised by you)and I am going to consider going after the bank as well as SKY.

Thanking you once again-

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Incidentally-the only reason I hestitated instigating legal proceedings to pursue the collection of the unauthorised payments taken from my account is because I am not a UK resident-so am unfamiliar with the court system. This is where this forum will prove invaluable to me-I would like to thank everyone involved in the creation of this site-I would still be up the creek without a paddle were it not for you. Thank You All Involved.

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:) Flattery gets you everywhere, but the truth is - I've been there, experienced their stonewalling and realised the only way to solve the problem is to raise court action when they refuse to budge.

 

That said, there are some VERY impotant things to note that put a slightly different complexion on your complaint, and (unfortunately) weaken slightly the main plank of your argument with them. In my case, I never had an issue with DD - I don't trust them. No, they played around with payment dates without notice, meaning their charges were automatically applied and rolled out of control as a result of their inability to fix the problem.

 

Regarding your issues - you will get nowhere with any claim that they took money from you wihout your knowledge or agreement, awareness or consent. You lose any right to this protection by actually setting up the DD. The reason for this is that you unconditionally accept that they are allowed to take money from you, and they did - the responsibility to ensure the correct amounts are taken are now shared, but in reality, they fall squarely on you. This is because the worst they can be accused of is incompetence, and as we know - the courts are very happy to accept this as valid mitigation of any error - whether a noe-off or sustained. The issue them becomes, WHY did YOU not spot this? If it was because you didn't checl your statements (Sky and/or bank) then you are now on the back-foot. You are now to blame for the situation you find yourself in.

 

The only person who cares about your money, is YOU. Sure the banks has a duty of care, but then - with a DD you've already told them that Sky can take 'unspeciied amounts on unspecified dates' which of course means any amount, and and any time, because you let them. It gets pretty hard to build a case against them for erroneous or innacurate debits - in much the same ways an insurance company would look askance at a claim for theft if the thief had the 'keys' to your property (or bank account, which is the same thing with a DD).

 

Pursuing your bank only works when you can prove that Sky broke the terms of your DD agreement (per the DD 'guarantee') but the issue is not the onw you think. You allowed them unspecified access - so what did they do wrong? If it was because the amount was incorrect, That's an issue between you and Sky (again!) not the bank!

 

Sky will only make soothing noises for so long - and then you hit a brick wall when they refuse to deal with you, and the progress stops dead. You need to get your SAR, work out where the fees went wrong and note the overpayments (or errors) to arrive at the total you seek to recover.

 

Once you have this figure, you make a formal request for repayment within 28 days, stating that should they not respond or make payment - you will without further notice make a Small Claims Action at your local court (this becomes your LBA- Letter Before Action).

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if you are not a uk resident are you in ROI?

 

ida x

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if you are not a uk resident are you in ROI?

 

ida x

***********************************************************

Hi Ida

Yes your assumption is correct-I am resident in the Republic of Ireland! But please dont hold this against me-as I am trying to ignore the fact that you are resident in Scotland-home of my great nemisis- SkySubscribers Services Ltd!!!!

A scottish Accent is currently like a Red Rag to me-Took many protracted conversations with Sky Customer Services Representatives will eventually have this effect on one!!

Think Scots everywhere should demand that Sky Customer Representatives are obligated to attend Customer Services tutorials prior to taking up a position in Scottish based Sky Call Centes-Believe me they are tarnishing your beautiful & lyrical accent with the posion that Sky has them spew!

(sorry got carried away-this Sky business is really getting to me-ordinarily I am a quiet nice and normal person who would not say boo to a goose! If I met a goose that is??!!

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The issue them becomes, WHY did YOU not spot this? If it was because you didn't checl your statements (Sky and/or bank) then you are now on the back-foot. You are now to blame for the situation you find yourself in.

 

**********************************************************

Been down this road with Sky a few times already on the phone-and all I can say is that I had been a Sky subscriber for over a decade-and had not once encountered a problem with DD-as a result-I trusted them implicitly-so much so that I never once considered checking my Bank Statements in relation to the Sky payments being paid out once a month. I understood that Sky collected my monthly subscription (£81) on a specific date each month. I was most certain that the payment due each month was £81-as I was not in the habit of using or viewing any other channels, eg Sky box office-In fact it became an unwritten rule with me-The subscription Fee was money enough to spend watching TV. Thus i can honestly say that of the 18 month period that Sky was billing me additional charges-the amount due was simply £81. When I receive a response to the SAR-I am certain this will be clrearly illustrated to me. Secondly and continuing on that point, I have to explain that I did not receive one single statement from Sky in that period. I must also clarify that Sky have not to date sent me one piece of written communication relating to these charges. In fact I did not receive any oral comminication of these charges I was forced to deduce for myself what had occured-and only after major persistence on my behalf did I eventually speak with someone who afforded some form of explanation of what these additional charges were in relation to. Even still-the information she imaparted did not corelate to my account. (This is why I wonder now if there is possibly a problem with their billing system). The Agent at one point said that she had evidence in front of her that showed that 1 of the box's in my home was connected to a different telephone number-I actually did Laugh out loud-as I know for an absolute fact that this never occurred. When I advised her that she must be mistaken-As she persisted with this claim-I did ask that She send me a copy of what she had in front of her-I wanted to learn the alternative phone number - so that i could telephone it and find out who was the "lucky" individual-who had me paying their Sky bill for them for the past 18 months! As you guessed-the Agent informed me that She could not supply me with a copy of that information!

"Sir" Buzby-You are so good at this-You have set my mind to remembering an awful lot of what I had forgotten of what actually took place on the phone calls I endured with the Sky Customer Service Representatives-I now realise the pertinense of an SAR-it is absolutely vital that I obtain this information as soon as possible-becasue otherwise i am prety much feeling my way round in the dark!! Thank you, once again, Wise ONe.

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  • 1 year later...

hi

 

just joined and found this thread and seek some advice.

also set up sky hd multiroom and only found out ( my fault ) that they overcharged me via dd for the additional boxes since 2005(abt £3000).

my boxes were installed by a proffessional company and properly connected all the time to a phone line.it turned out that the reason for the charges is that my phone number is withheld but they never told me that this was a problem.

as usual you get nowhere with sky cs.any thoughts?

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I have had sky for 2 weeks now. Just paid £16, now my next bill is due on 5th april for £66.11. It seems i hav eto pay telephone line rental of £11.25 monthly in advance. I was not told of this and only found out when I spoke with an advisor this morning. I am having cancel my direct debit due to next payment being on 5th april, i get paid on 6th. has no overdraft on bank account, i would incur £15 bank charges becaus efunds not available on date requested. Sky say it takes 2 weeks to change the hpayment date, which would be 1st may, that i beleive would incur another month payment and I can not afford to pay over £100 subscription charges. I will cancel direct debit and pay when I get paid, incurring a £4 fee for non direct debit. I am disgusted with the way I am being dealt with.

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