Rufus -v- RBS

[citizenB]

I would have thought that contact would have been made by the other side by now, Rufus.

 

I dont really know much about these Telephone conferences.. so I have hit the panic button for you.

 

If no one replies, I would suggest you telephone the court first thing tomorrow:)

[ukaviator]

Telephone hearings in civil hearings were introduced in 1999 as part of the Civil Justice Reforms following Lord Woolf's Review of the civil justice system in England and Wales. More recently the availability of telephone hearings has been expanded to cover a wider variety of hearings. To reflect this, the Practice Direction covering telephone hearings has been revised. This is a brief guide on the scheme as it applies in county courts and district registries.

 

In the case of interim applications the responsibility for the conference call shall be the applicant’s (providing the applicant is represented In all other cases responsibility for the conference call shall normally be with the claimant’s representatives. If the claimant is unrepresented the first named defendant who is represented shall be responsible for all arrangements. The court may on occasions direct another party to be responsible for making arrangements if it sees fit to do so.

 

All other arrangements shall be in accordance with those set out in paragraphs 6.9 and 6.10 of the Practice Direction. (References to the designated legal representative should be read as the applicant’s legal representative (if any), or the legal representative of such other party as the court directs to arrange the telephone hearing).

 

Taken from HMCS here:

 

Telephone hearings

[aguycalledrufus]

I've just finished speaking to someone at the Courts regarding the Telephone Conference details.

 

She confirmed that it is Irwin Mitchell who should have arranged this and they should have provided details to me by now.

 

She wasnt sure how to proceed, but suggested that I phone their Solicitors to obtain the information of the call.

 

I've not actually spoken to Irwin Mitchell yet as all communication has been done in writing so far, and I dont particularly relish making the call, partly as I am at work, and partly because I believe that they should have posted me the details without me chasing them.

 

The courts dont keep any details about the call, so do I have any other option but to call Irwin Mitchell?

[citizenB]

I've just finished speaking to someone at the Courts regarding the Telephone Conference details.

 

She confirmed that it is Irwin Mitchell who should have arranged this and they should have provided details to me by now.

 

She wasnt sure how to proceed, but suggested that I phone their Solicitors to obtain the information of the call.

 

I've not actually spoken to Irwin Mitchell yet as all communication has been done in writing so far, and I dont particularly relish making the call, partly as I am at work, and partly because I believe that they should have posted me the details without me chasing them.

 

The courts dont keep any details about the call, so do I have any other option but to call Irwin Mitchell?

 

I think you will have to make the call. Make sure you dont get drawn into any other conversation other than with respect to those relating to the telephone conference.

[aguycalledrufus]

I called twice, but the Receptionist was unable to put me through to the person handling the case and I didnt leave a Voicemail on her answerphone.

 

So, I'll give her a call tomorrow morning and hopefully get through to see if something has been arranged.

 

As far as my defence goes, should it be that no DN has yet been issued? - it doesnt appear that the Loan has been Terminated either.

 

 

I'm getting very nervous now that its tomorrow

[aguycalledrufus]

any last minute advice? - any & all gratefully received!

[guzzleguts]

Just stick to your guns, no DN thats enough for this claim to be struck out, i have had a claim struck out for this reason.

 

Be strong

 

GG

[aguycalledrufus]

Phoned up the Court to say that I hadnt received the details of the teleconference. I was put through to the judge who advised that it may not have gone ahead as I was using my phone to contact the Court directly when the Solicitors were trying to get through to me. I guess it is possible, but I just didnt expect that reply!

 

A new PTR is going to be arranged at future date.

 

Whilst on the phone, the Judge did ask if I wanted to amend my defence. The defence is still similar to the original defence, however it now focuses more on the absent DN rather than the absence of all Agreements, documents, etc as they have supplied some documents.

 

I said "No" to the offer, but I am trying now to see I can amend the Defence to focus more on the missing DN.

Edited March 25, 2010 by aguycalledrufus

[aguycalledrufus]

As said earlier, the only DN that I've received is one for the Overdraft.

 

I've never received one from the Loan, even though RBS say it was sent on the same date (6th May)

 

Anyway, would someone have a look at the Overdraft D/N and let me know if it is valid...

 

[aguycalledrufus]

Can someone also have a look at the Amended Defence - the judge mentioned that the original was "lengthy" and was only 1 1/2 pages!

 

It only relates to the fact that no DN was served for the Personal Loan.

 

If there are issues with the O/D DN attached in an early post today, I will add those.

 

AMENDED DEFENCE

 

The Claimant has not served a Default Notice to the Defendant relating to the Personal Loan, nor has the Claimant provided the Default Notice when requested by the Defendant.

 

The Claimant must under Section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 serve a valid Default Notice before they can demand early payment of sums not yet due under a Regulated Credit Agreement.

 

For a Creditor to be entitled to terminate a regulated Credit Agreement where there is a breach, demand repayment in full, or take any legal action to recover any monies due under the Agreement, a creditor must serve a Default Notice under section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

[aguycalledrufus]

BUMP - looking to drop this off tomorrow - is this short & concise Amended Defence OK?

 

Thanks,

Rufus

[citizenB]

Sorry rufus, I have only just seen this. Have you filed this at court ?

[aguycalledrufus]

Hi CitizenB - no, not yet, I really wasnt sure if I wasnt doing the right thing and wanted another opinion, what do you think?

[aguycalledrufus]

Latest Letter from RBS..

 

I thought that under a regulated Credit Agreement a Creditor must serve a valid a Default Notice, and then a valid Termination Notice before Court Action.

 

I believe that the letter below confirms the fact that RBS believe that loan is at the Arrears, and have therefore not yet issued a DN, nor a Termination Notice, whilst the Solicitors have gone straight to Court!

 

 

Edited April 3, 2010 by aguycalledrufus

[citizenB]

As said earlier, the only DN that I've received is one for the Overdraft.

 

I've never received one from the Loan, even though RBS say it was sent on the same date (6th May)

 

Anyway, would someone have a look at the Overdraft D/N and let me know if it is valid...

 

 

 

Rufus the letter above advises that the money outstanding is payable on demand and that they will be doing so on or after 23 May 2009. Any default notice should, I think have been issued prior to the above. Or this could be a different type of notice. I really do not know.

 

The two letters you posted yesterday are a legal requirement but I dont understand how they relate to the overdraft because they say it is in connection with the loan. They are not Default notices.

[aguycalledrufus]

After a bit of research, the notice from the 6th May is a valid Default Notice for an Overdraft.

 

I'm still not sure why RBS Credit Management Services would send the 2 loan letters above if the loan account had been properly defaulted & terminated :-?:-?:-? - or do RBS have to keep sending the notices them whilst Irwin Mitchell pursue the court claim?

[aguycalledrufus]

The Solicitors have now emailed me a copy of the Loan DN...

 

 

I've never seen the above DN before so I'm still not sure if it is a True Copy of the original.

 

Did they fall short on the 14 days?

 

06/05/2009 - Wed = DN Date of Issue

07/05/2009 - Thur= DN in transit +1 day.

08/05/2009 - Fri = Date of Service (+2 days from Posting)

09/05/2009 - Sat = 1st Clear Day

10/05/2009 - Sun = 2nd Clear Day

11/05/2009 - Mon = 3rd Clear Day

12/05/2009 - Tues = 4th Clear Day

13/05/2009 - Wed = 5th Clear Day

14/05/2009 - Thur = 6th Clear Day

15/05/2009 - Fri = 7th Clear Day

16/05/2009 - Sat = 8th Clear Day

17/05/2009 - Sun = 9th Clear Day

18/05/2009 - Mon = 10th Clear Day

19/05/2009 - Tues = 11th Clear Day

20/05/2009 - Wed = 12th Clear Day

21/05/2009 - Thur = 13th Clear Day

22/05/2009 - Fri = 14th Clear Day

[aguycalledrufus]

Bump.

[citizenB]

Hmmm, yes. If the DN was dated 6th May 2009 and they wanted payment by the 21st May 2009 then they have fallen short by at least 1 day if sent by 1st class and 3 days if sent by 2nd or UK mail.

 

Their 76(1) 98(1) notice was ALSO dated 6th May ?

 

How very strange

[guzzleguts]

Any notice that they rely on in court, you would ask the court to order the claimant to prove service which i doubt they could do.

 

In all my cases (3) to date the court have asked the claimant for proof of service of the DN, and not one have been able to come up with it.

 

GG

[aguycalledrufus]

My previous defence was that the Default Notices had not been sent to me. Last week they were forwarded to me (it only took 7 months!)

 

My defence will be based around the following 2 points...

 

1). The Loan Default Notice is invalid as it did not provide me with 14 days to rectify, even allowing for 1st class posting.

 

2). The (Overdraft ) Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) can only be used to give notice of termination in non-default cases s76(6) and s98(6). This notice was sent when the Overdraft had breached.

 

I have another Pre-Trial Review next week and the judge is going to ask me if I have received the DN's before the Court hearing at the end of the month.

 

Should I submit another amended defence ASAP?

[citizenB]

My previous defence was that the Default Notices had not been sent to me. Last week they were forwarded to me (it only took 7 months!)

 

My defence will be based around the following 2 points...

 

1). The Loan Default Notice is invalid as it did not provide me with 14 days to rectify, even allowing for 1st class posting.

 

2). The (Overdraft ) Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) can only be used to give notice of termination in non-default cases s76(6) and s98(6). This notice was sent when the Overdraft had breached.

 

I have another Pre-Trial Review next week and the judge is going to ask me if I have received the DN's before the Court hearing at the end of the month.

 

Should I submit another amended defence ASAP?

 

You could submit an amended defence advising that you are doing this due to information received at the last moment. It could be that you could leave it to the pre trial hearing and mention that you have now received this information and the DJ could give you leave to submit a defended defence. TBH, I really dont know the answer.

 

If it were me, I would prepare and submit an amended defence.

But wait for other responses. diddydicky may be able to advise further on this.