Scatty85 vs. Egg

[Scatty1985]

So where do we stand if our agreement state "approved limit" and other non prescribed terms? Can we start proceedings against egg and write letters saying we believe the agreement is unenforceable etc? If anyone can give me a straight answer I would much appreciate it!!

 

Thanks

[Scatty1985]

This is the letter I'm considering sending, it’s a slightly modified version of basa48s letter.

xxxxxxx

xxxx

xx

AA11 2BB

29 Aug. 09

Egg Card

Riverside Walk

Pride Park

Derby

DE99 3GG

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

Ref: Egg Card # xxxxx - In Dispute

Please note: I do not acknowledge any debt to your company.

Thank you for your recent letter regarding my request for an original copy of the credit agreement.

 

Unfortunately the document you have provided as a copy of an alleged agreement does not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Section 60(2) and Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 Schedule 1 in that not all the ‘prescribed terms’ are present.

 

1. The term ‘Limit’, ‘Approved Limit’ and ‘Individual Limit’ are not prescribed terms, contrary to the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 Schedule 1 Para 8 as the meaning of such terms cannot be exactly ascertained by the debtor.

 

2. There should be a list of any ‘charges on default’ payable under the agreement to the creditor upon failure by the debtor or a relative of his to do or refrain from doing anything which he is require to do or refrain from doing, as the case may be, contrary to the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 Schedule 1 Para 22.

 

It is for these reasons that I DISPUTE the alleged agreement.

 

The lack of a compliant agreement is a very clear dispute and as such your company is in DEFAULT of the agreement. I trust that you are aware of the limitations placed upon you now that the account has been formally disputed. Consequently you are reminded that the following applies in relation to this alleged agreement.

 

You: * are not entitled, while the dispute continues, to enforce the agreement.

* may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer you any payment.

* may not add further charges or interest to the account.

* may not pass the account to a third party.

* may not register any information is respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Please note: you may also consider this letter as statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to cease processing, with immediate effect, any data in relation to this account, both within your own internal records and records with any third party, which may cause substantial damage or substantial distress to me or to another.

 

Should you not comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasons behind continuing to process my data. Should you not respond within 21 days I expect that this means you agree to cease processing all such data. Pursuant to the above, I reserve the right to report your actions to any relevant regulatory authorities I see fit.

 

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with you intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. In the absence of a signed compliant agreement, I would invite you to consider reducing any alleged debt to £0 and enter a ‘full and final settlement’ as discharged on the alleged account and with any third parties. If you do not respond within 14 days I will assume you have accepted these terms in full and I will consider this matter closed.

 

I would ask you to note that I will not enter into any communication regarding this matter except in writing by post. Repeated attempts to contact me by telephone will be considered harassment and a formal complaint will be made to the relevant authorities. I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Me

[Scatty1985]

Any advice?!

[Scatty1985]

How do I get a reply to this thread?!

[Bosund]

Hi Scatty,

Sort of in the same boat myself, asked if someone could just check my CCA to see if I'd missed something obvious but had no replies.

Still, all is not lost.

Am about to have a go at Egg myself and have prepared a letter similar to yours with the exception that I am going to make an offer of 10% of the outstanding balance. They will probably reject this but if it does get as far as going to Court at least I can show that an offer was made.

Would be interested in your views on this although will not be on-line till later this evening.

Regards...

[Scatty1985]

Awesome have you sent the letter off yet? I'm waiting to get some feedback first from someone who knows more about it, don’t want to send it off and find I can’t actually do anything!

 

I'm not going to offer them anything on the principal that the banks will make you pay through the nose the instant you make a mistake (i.e. go overdrawn by a tiny bit they give you huge charges)

 

If I dont get a reply by the end of the week I'll send this letter off and hope for the best!

 

Keep me posted mate.

[Bosund]

Hi,

 

No, have not sent it off yet, have been trawling this site to see if I could get any more ammo.

 

Will have to go by the end of the week though as I would like to get the ball rolling.

 

Will keep you posted as to any feed back I get from them.

 

Best of luck.

 

Bosund.

[Bosund]

Hi Scatty,

 

Post 9 on http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/169316-john-lewis-cca-struck.html

 

Regards...

[Scatty1985]

Updated letter to Egg.

 

Any comments welcome...

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

Ref: Egg Card # xxxxx - In Dispute

Please note: I do not acknowledge any debt to your company.

Thank you for your recent letter regarding my request for an original copy of the credit agreement.

Unfortunately the Egg Card Agreement you have provided me does not comply with s.61(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the associated regulations.

Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.61

s.61.-(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless-.

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner.

Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 – Schedule 6 Prescribed Terms

Amount of credit

3) Agreements for running-account credit. A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

1) However, since it does not have a term concerning the credit limit (rather, it defines an "Approved Limit" - whatever that is) as required by Schedule 6 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983, the court would be prevented from granting such an order by virtue of s.127(3).

Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.127

s.127 (3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

2) What’s more there should be a list of any ‘charges on default’ payable under the agreement to the creditor upon failure by the debtor or a relative of his to do or refrain from doing anything which he is require to do or refrain from doing, as the case may be, contrary to the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 Schedule 1 Para 22.

3) I would also like to point out that there is no mention of my agreement to the processing of my data through credit reference agencies in the agreement.

4) I note that the Egg Card Agreement quotes APR’s of 12.3% (for Purchases), 13.9% (for Transfer Balances) and 16.3% (for Cash Advances), however there is no mention within the Egg Card Agreement I received that these rates are variable and liable to change. The APR on my account has been increased numerous times and is currently 19.9%. This is yet another breach of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983.

5) Similarly the APR in regards to Cash Advances is very unclear and confusing. The agreement defines a handling fee of 1.25%, minimum fee of £2 and an APR of 16.3%.

6) Finally I notice some information relating to the Egg Card Agreement lies within your terms and conditions which is a separate document to the Egg Card Agreement. I would like to draw your attention to Regulation 2 (4) Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI1983/1553) which requires that the statutory information set out within Para 3-19 of schedule 1 and 2 SI1983/1553 should be shown as a whole and not interspersed with other information if the agreement is to be properly executed and compliant with section 61 Consumer Credit Act 1974.

I am of the opinion that a court is precluded from enforcing this Egg Card Agreement by s.127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 as it is improperly executed under s.61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, the consequences of improper execution are set out in s.65 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and s.65 sets out that only a court can enforce an improperly executed Egg Card Agreement subject to certain qualifications, one of those is that the document is signed and contains all the prescribed terms.

Now since this document does not contain all the prescribed terms s.127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 strictly prevents the court from enforcing this Egg Card Agreement.

It is for these reasons that I DISPUTE the alleged Egg Card Agreement.

The lack of a compliant agreement is a very clear dispute and as such your company is in DEFAULT of the Egg Card Agreement. I trust that you are aware of the limitations placed upon you now that the account has been formally disputed. Consequently you are reminded that the following applies in relation to this alleged Egg Card Agreement.

You: * are not entitled, while the dispute continues, to enforce the agreement.

* may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer you any payment.

* may not add further charges or interest to the account.

* may not pass the account to a third party.

* may not register any information is respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* may not issue a default notice related to the account.

Please note: you may also consider this letter as statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to cease processing, with immediate effect, any data in relation to this account, both within your own internal records and records with any third party, including any credit reference agencies, which may cause substantial damage or substantial distress to me or to another.

Should you not comply, you must within 21 days, provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasons behind continuing to process my data. Should you not respond within 21 days I expect that this means you agree to cease processing all such data. Pursuant to the above, I reserve the right to report your actions to any relevant regulatory authorities I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with you intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

In the absence of a signed Credit Agreement containing all the prescribed terms, I respectfully invite you to consider reducing any alleged debt to £0 and enter a ‘full and final settlement’ as discharged on the alleged account and with any third parties, including any credit reference agencies. If you do not respond within 14 days of receiving this letter I will presume you have accepted these terms in full and I will consider this matter closed.

I would ask you to note that I will not enter into any communication regarding this matter except in writing by post. Repeated attempts to contact me by telephone will be considered harassment and a formal complaint will be made to the relevant authorities. I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

Yours sincerely,

 

A man on a misson

Edited September 11, 2009 by Scatty1985

[Bosund]

Very well presented, go for it mate...

[Scatty1985]

Quick question, Egg called me chasing payment on this account. I told them that the account is in dispute and as such they are not allowed to demand payment nor am I obliged to offer any payment.

 

The lady I spoke to seems to think otherwise. She also said they plan to continue calling me until payment is made, despite the dispute and the last paragraph on my letter.

 

Is she talking rubbish?

[Bosund]

Hi Scatty,

 

Have only just seen this.

 

From what I've seen and read on this site it would appear that as long as the account is in dispute that they should not be chasing you, (although they will).

 

Have myself bought one of those telephone conversation recording machines on this site and they could be useful in making a complaint to the OFT about harressment which is what you seem to be getting.

 

Will have another look later to see if I can find the threads I read which delt with this.

 

Hopefully there will be someone else out there with more knowledge than me that can advise you better.

 

Cheers,

 

Bosun.