tenancy deposit/rent arrears

[jacko428]

Hi all,

 

I am posting this thread on behalf of my daughter. She is looking for any help that anybody may be able to give.

 

Firstly I will start with the fact that she has just received a letter from her Landlady/Landlord saying that she is 2 months in arrears with her rent.

 

Which reads as follows:

 

Letter dated 24th August 2009

 

Dear xxxxx

I am giving 2 months notice to vacate xxxxxxx. You are constantly in arrears with your rent which is a breach of your tenancy agreement.

Your leaving date will be 24th October 2009 which is 2 months notice from today's date.

Yours faithfully.

 

My daughter is in receipt of housing benefit which is paid 4 weeks in arrears.

 

My daughter has a rent book which is held by her landlady/landlord that she refuses to let my daughter have back.

 

My daughter admits that she is only £100 behind with her rent which is the top up amount that she has to pay as the housing benefit does not cover all her rent.

 

The other problem she has is with her bond/deposit it has never been registered. She moved in to the property in August 2007 a bond of £480 was paid 2 weeks prior to her moving in, to this date the bond/deposit has never been registered, where does she stand with this?

[Kentish Lass]

The letter does not say she is 2 months in arrears with her rent. It gives her two months notice.

 

Need to know a couple of things before I can offer any further help.

 

Has your daughter signed any new AST agreements since the first one? (If not, then she is on a statutory periodic tenancy). What was the term of the first agreement and what were the dates, i.e. what was the start date of the tenancy and what were the dates of any subsequent tenancy agreement she may have signed?

 

Secondly, although she may not have been notified, how does she know her bond was not protected? This could be confirmed by calling the three schemes and they will be able to tell you.

 

DPS 0870 707 1 707

TDSL 0871 703 0552

TDS 0845 226 7837.

[jacko428]

The letter does not say she is 2 months in arrears with her rent. It gives her two months notice.

 

Need to know a couple of things before I can offer any further help.

 

Has your daughter signed any new AST agreements since the first one? (If not, then she is on a statutory periodic tenancy). What was the term of the first agreement and what were the dates, i.e. what was the start date of the tenancy and what were the dates of any subsequent tenancy agreement she may have signed?

 

Secondly, although she may not have been notified, how does she know her bond was not protected? This could be confirmed by calling the three schemes and they will be able to tell you.

 

DPS 0870 707 1 707

TDSL 0871 703 0552

TDS 0845 226 7837.

 

Hi Kentish Lass, No she has not signed a new agreement since she first moved in to the property in August 2007 and as far as I know it was a shorthold tenancy.

 

With reference to her bond, she has contacted all the above phone numbers and none of them have her bond registered with them.

[Kentish Lass]

Hi Kentish Lass, No she has not signed a new agreement since she first moved in to the property in August 2007 and as far as I know it was a shorthold tenancy.

 

In that case she is now under a statutory period tenancy whereby LL has to give 2 months notice, using the s.21 notice, to gain possession. If your daughter does not leave, then LL has to apply to the court for possession.

 

With reference to her bond, she has contacted all the above phone numbers and none of them have her bond registered with them.

 

This means that your daughter can sue LL for deposit plus 3xdeposit penalty for non-compliance with the deposit protection legislation.

 

I believe that an s.21 notice will not be accepted by the court if the deposit has not been protected, but I have not been able to find confirmation of this. I will keep looking!! In any case, a simple letter is not adequate notice.

 

I suggest that your daughter has a chat with her local CAB or talks to Shelter who are both extremely helpful in this regard.

 

By the way, the fact that HB is paid in arrears is always a problem but it is the tenant's problem - i.e. tenant should find some way of bringing the rental payments up to date if possible. The LL can issue a s.8 notice for immediate possession on the grounds that rent is two months in arrears.

 

And don't misunderstand this statement - what it means is that if rent is payable e.g. monthly in advance, it is 2 months in arrears as soon as the second month's payment is due and unpaid (i.e. after one month and one day..). This is probably complicated by the fact that HB is paid so I really would suggest a chat with Shelter or CAB.

[jacko428]

In that case she is now under a statutory period tenancy whereby LL has to give 2 months notice, using the s.21 notice, to gain possession. If your daughter does not leave, then LL has to apply to the court for possession.

 

 

 

This means that your daughter can sue LL for deposit plus 3xdeposit penalty for non-compliance with the deposit protection legislation.

 

I believe that an s.21 notice will not be accepted by the court if the deposit has not been protected, but I have not been able to find confirmation of this. I will keep looking!! In any case, a simple letter is not adequate notice.

 

I suggest that your daughter has a chat with her local CAB or talks to Shelter who are both extremely helpful in this regard.

 

By the way, the fact that HB is paid in arrears is always a problem but it is the tenant's problem - i.e. tenant should find some way of bringing the rental payments up to date if possible. The LL can issue a s.8 notice for immediate possession on the grounds that rent is two months in arrears.

 

And don't misunderstand this statement - what it means is that if rent is payable e.g. monthly in advance, it is 2 months in arrears as soon as the second month's payment is due and unpaid (i.e. after one month and one day..). This is probably complicated by the fact that HB is paid so I really would suggest a chat with Shelter or CAB.

 

Many thanks for your help, I have already suggested to my daughter that she goes to the CAB as they will be able to assist her further. Once again many thanks.

[Emma1973]

I believe that an s.21 notice will not be accepted by the court if the deposit has not been protected, but I have not been able to find confirmation of this. I will keep looking!! In any case, a simple letter is not adequate notice

 

 

Results within legislation - Statute Law Database

 

The Housing Act 2004 Sec 215 covers this issue!

 

215

Sanctions for non-compliance

(1)

If a tenancy deposit has been paid in connection with a shorthold tenancy, no section 21 notice may be given in relation to the tenancy at a time when— (a)

the deposit is not being held in accordance with an authorised scheme, or

 

(b)

the initial requirements of such a scheme (see section 213(4)) have not been complied with in relation to the deposit.

 

HTH Kentish Lass

[jacko428]

Results within legislation - Statute Law Database

 

The Housing Act 2004 Sec 215 covers this issue!

 

215

Sanctions for non-compliance

(1)

If a tenancy deposit has been paid in connection with a shorthold tenancy, no section 21 notice may be given in relation to the tenancy at a time when— (a)

the deposit is not being held in accordance with an authorised scheme, or

 

(b)

the initial requirements of such a scheme (see section 213(4)) have not been complied with in relation to the deposit.

 

HTH Kentish Lass

 

Hi Emma,

 

Thanks for your reply, sorry for not responding to you sooner.

 

The situation re my daughter and her situation gets more interesting by the day. I have today found out that part of the bond of £480 which was given to the agent whos brother is the owner of the property has been used as part payment for so called rent arrears. The assured shorthold tenancy agreement started on 11/08/2007 and was for 6 months and has never been renewed since.

[jacko428]

In that case she is now under a statutory period tenancy whereby LL has to give 2 months notice, using the s.21 notice, to gain possession. If your daughter does not leave, then LL has to apply to the court for possession.

 

 

 

This means that your daughter can sue LL for deposit plus 3xdeposit penalty for non-compliance with the deposit protection legislation.

 

I believe that an s.21 notice will not be accepted by the court if the deposit has not been protected, but I have not been able to find confirmation of this. I will keep looking!! In any case, a simple letter is not adequate notice.

 

I suggest that your daughter has a chat with her local CAB or talks to Shelter who are both extremely helpful in this regard.

 

By the way, the fact that HB is paid in arrears is always a problem but it is the tenant's problem - i.e. tenant should find some way of bringing the rental payments up to date if possible. The LL can issue a s.8 notice for immediate possession on the grounds that rent is two months in arrears.

 

And don't misunderstand this statement - what it means is that if rent is payable e.g. monthly in advance, it is 2 months in arrears as soon as the second month's payment is due and unpaid (i.e. after one month and one day..). This is probably complicated by the fact that HB is paid so I really would suggest a chat with Shelter or CAB.

 

 

Hi Kentish Lass,

Just to update you re my daughters situation, I have found out today that the agent who is acting for her brother who owns the property has used part of the £480 bond (£240) to pay for rent arrears so what is her situation now? The tenancy agreement was signed on 11/08/07 and was for 6 months and has not been renewed since.

[jacko428]

Hi all,

 

I have been reading about the tenancy deposit scheme on this forum with some interest as my daughter is currently having a few problems with her agent/LL.

 

An assured shorthold tenancy agreement was signed in August 2007 for a period of 6 months and a bond of £480 was paid. This bond has never been registered and the tenancy agreement has never been renewed. From what I have read here her tenancy is now a periodic tenancy and her bond is not covered by the tenancy deposit scheme. I would be grateful for some help re this matter.

[DisgruntledTenant]

TDS came into being April 2007, so your daughters bond should be covered by one of the TDS's....

[jacko428]

TDS came into being April 2007, so your daughters bond should be covered by one of the TDS's....

 

Hi,

 

I am reading conflicting reports on the forum. I have read that because her tenancy is now a shorthold periodic tenancy she will not be covered by the TDS surely somebody must know the answer.

[DevilWearsPrimark]

The original tenancy was created after April 2007 so it does apply.

 

If the tenancy was created before April 2007 and then lapsed to become a periodic tenancy then TDS legislation may not apply, but thats not the case here.

[jacko428]

The original tenancy was created after April 2007 so it does apply.

 

If the tenancy was created before April 2007 and then lapsed to become a periodic tenancy then TDS legislation may not apply, but thats not the case here.

 

 

This becomes even more confusing. Either my daughter has a claim against her agent/LL or she does not.

[DisgruntledTenant]

This becomes even more confusing. Either my daughter has a claim against her agent/LL or she does not.

 

Either your tenancy was created before April 07 or after.

 

Before April 07 (and not renewed after Apr 07) = no claim

Before April 07 (and renewed after Apr 07) = Claim

After April 07 = Claim

 

Whats confusing?

[jacko428]

Either your tenancy was created before April 07 or after.

 

Before April 07 (and not renewed after Apr 07) = no claim

Before April 07 (and renewed after Apr 07) = Claim

After April 07 = Claim

 

Whats confusing?

 

You are the one confusing the issue as I clearly stated that the agreement started in August 2007.

 

Which means that my daughter can make a claim yes?

[DisgruntledTenant]

You are the one confusing the issue as I clearly stated that the agreement started in August 2007.

 

Which means that my daughter can make a claim yes?

 

I'm the one confusing things?

 

Just trying to help!

 

You're the one that has been told

 

1) By me "TDS came into being April 2007, so your daughters bond should be covered by one of the TDS's...."

2) By DWP "The original tenancy was created after April 2007 so it does apply."

 

And then you say "This becomes even more confusing. Either my daughter has a claim against her agent/LL or she does not."

 

Why are you confused after that?! I was just trying to clear it up for your easily confused self!

[jacko428]

I'm the one confusing things?

 

Just trying to help!

 

You're the one that has been told

 

1) By me "TDS came into being April 2007, so your daughters bond should be covered by one of the TDS's...."

2) By DWP "The original tenancy was created after April 2007 so it does apply."

 

And then you say "This becomes even more confusing. Either my daughter has a claim against her agent/LL or she does not."

 

Why are you confused after that?! I was just trying to clear it up for your easily confused self!

 

I understand you are trying to help, why did you not say that in the first place, simples. Thank you

[DisgruntledTenant]

I understand you are trying to help, why did you not say that in the first place, simples. Thank you

 

Um. I did.

[DevilWearsPrimark]

I think its been explained properly and can't see anything confusing myself.

 

The only time a periodic tenancy is not covered by TDS legislation is if it was started before April 2007 and not subsequently renewed. However this does not apply in this case as the tenancy was started in August 2007.

[jacko428]

I think its been explained properly and can't see anything confusing myself.

 

The only time a periodic tenancy is not covered by TDS legislation is if it was started before April 2007 and not subsequently renewed. However this does not apply in this case as the tenancy was started in August 2007.

 

 

Hi DWP,

 

Glad to see that you won your case,well done you.

 

I am currently trying to get my head round trying to sort my daughters problem out. I have in the last few days found out that the agent acting for the LL who is the agents brother has dipped into the bond of £480 and taken £240 from the original bond for so called rent arrears. Does this making claiming any different?

 

Do you think that I should write to the agent prior to going ahead with the court issue?

[jacko428]

Hi one and all,

 

I hope that somebody on the forum may be able to give me some advice prior to making a claim on my daughters behalf in the County Court.

 

1. Her original deposit has never been put into any TDS scheme.

 

2. Her agent has taken half of the original deposit for so called non payment of rent (agent claims my daughter is 8 weeks in arrears) this is not the case at all.

 

3. Does she inform the agent of her intentions prior to any court claim?

[binkhus]

send a letter before action saying that unless you recieve the deposit in full within 14 days you will begin court proceddings for the full amount x3.

[Kentish Lass]

Need more detail.

 

I hope that somebody on the forum may be able to give me some advice prior to making a claim on my daughters behalf in the County Court.

Why are you making the claim and not your daughter?

 

1. Her original deposit has never been put into any TDS scheme.

what sort of tenancy did she have? Dates etc.

 

2. Her agent has taken half of the original deposit for so called non payment of rent (agent claims my daughter is 8 weeks in arrears) this is not the case at all.

Does your daughter have proof that all rents were paid (e.g. bank statements etc.)

 

3. Does she inform the agent of her intentions prior to any court claim?

Will advise when previous questions answered.

 

Who is LL (agent is only LL's representative).

[jacko428]

Need more detail.

 

Why are you making the claim and not your daughter?

 

My daughter will be making the claim I am merely trying to assist her.

 

what sort of tenancy did she have? Dates etc. She is still the tenant on an expired AST which is now a periodic tenancy.Tenancy started on 11th August 2007

 

Does your daughter have proof that all rents were paid (e.g. bank statements etc.) Yes she has had a rent book from day one although she has only got it back from the agent in the last 2 weeks

 

Will advise when previous questions answered.

 

Who is LL (agent is only LL's representative).

 

LL is the brother of the agent.

 

I hope all the info helps.

Edited September 14, 2009 by jacko428

[jacko428]

LL is the brother of the agent.

 

I hope all the info helps.

 

Ian