Help with CABOT!

[Zooee]

Please can somone help me - I've been having trouble with Cabot. For my credit agreement they sent me what looks like an application form (it looks like a copy of my online application I did to Virgin in 2002) and a very bad copy of the bottom of the form where I signed. (See Cabot Sig File) They also sent new T&Cs

 

Is this enforceable?

 

I received this letter from them (see Cabot Letter).

 

They also have added over £2000 to the account whilst it was ii dispute.

 

I'm really not sure where to go from here.

 

Thank you!

Cabot Letter.pdf

Cabot Sig File.pdf

[Bazooka Boo]

Is that everything they sent you in reply to your CCA request??

 

As far as I can see, and CCA's are not my thing, but it looks to me as though it is unenforceable, it doesn't show any of the interest rates, there isn't the T&C at the time of you taking out the agreement, but what goes in your favour also is their acknowledgement that they think they have complied with the CCA request and this is enforceable!

 

[cerberusalert]

It is total rubbish, send them this;

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states;

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Print name do not sign

[Zooee]

Thank you very much for your reply.

 

They did send me statements and a right to cancel notice (but this a current one with £12 for late charges etc.

[Bazooka Boo]

Just send them the above as cerbs posted, and make sure it is sent via recorded delivery...

 

Boo;)

[Zooee]

Thank you both! Printing now and will be on it's way. I will keep you informed of my progress.

 

Thanks again.

[voodoo1]

subbing

[Zooee]

Hello. I have had a reply from Cabot and I'm not sure of what my next step is. Please can you someone help?

 

Thanks!

Cabot Response.pdf

[Stephan56]

I have had the same sorts of letters from them. They make all these points about (i) acknowledging debt (ii) used funds (iii) made payments etc (and in my case even said I had a moral obligation).

 

None of that matters.

 

What is key is whether they produce a proper agrement or not. If they do not then they hve nothing to enforce. I think with all of us there is eveidence of payments, use of credit cards etc. That is NOT the issue. The issue is WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE AN ENFORCEABLE AGREEMENT.

 

If they have not sent you one, then assume they do not have one. Account is in dispute and then over to them. If they want to take your to court to ENFORCE, then that is their call (althoguh OFT guidleines aobut not taking any enfocement action if no agrement provided??). If went to court, you would need to DEFEND and, assuming the judge follows the law, he could not make any order as no agreement. Bye Bye Cabot.

 

If they do not have an agreement, the rest is just smoke and mirrors.

[cerberusalert]

Ignore them for now, they are blustering on about you having used the a/c, that is not the argument. The fact is they have yet to prove that the alleged debt is enforceable and they haven't done that & until they do they cannot take any enforcement.

[Zooee]

Thanks for the advice - I will ignore them!

[debt4get]

Ms M McEvoy

Account In Dispute

Ref:

 

Dear

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx 2009, the contents of which have been noted.

It would seem that you are of the belief that you have discharged your obligations under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 in particular section 78(1).

the documents you have provided do not conform and I feel it is my duty to draw your attention to some serious flaws in your comments.

 

Firstly, to comply with section 61 of the consumer credit act 1974 which by the way refers to the signing of an agreement, a document must conform to regulations made under the provisions of section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 otherwise it cannot be properly executed

 

Now then, these regulations I refer to are the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553). These regulations set out the form and content of agreements. For an agreement to be compliant with the regulations it MUST embody within the agreement, the prescribed terms laid out in the SI1983/1553 without the prescribed terms the agreement does not conform to section 60(1) 1974 and therefore cannot be properly executed as described in section 61(1) CCA 1974.

 

For your information in case you are unsure. The prescribed terms referred to are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following--

(a)Number of repayments;

(b)Amount of repayments;

©Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d)Dates of repayments;

(e)The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

Now nowhere on the form that you supplied is there any reference to these terms. I wish to remind you that the absence of these terms will render a document unenforceable in court and I also wish to point out that these terms MUST be contained within the agreement and NOT in a separate document headed terms and conditions or words to that effect

 

Since the document you have supplied is an application form, I cannot believe for one moment that these very important terms would be contained on the opposite side of the form, therefore they must have been contained in a separate document, which is prohibited by the SI1983/1553, as there is no clear link to them within the signature document.

 

Therefore, you have failed to supply an enforceable document, which is correctly executed as to be so; it must conform to the Regulations under s60 CCA1974

 

I am of the opinion that a court is precluded from enforcing this agreement by s127 (3) CCA1974 as it is improperly executed under s61 CCA 74, the consequences of improper execution are set out in section 65 CCA 1974 and s65 sets out that only a court can enforce an improperly executed agreement subject to certain qualifications, one of those is that the document is signed and contains all the prescribed terms. Now since this document does not contain all the prescribed terms s127 (3) CCA 1974 strictly prevents the court from enforcing this agreement.

Could you also please confirm in writing that in the event of any court action by yourselves this will be the document you intend to present to the court in order to enforce alleged debt.

If you cannot supply me with a document, which complies with the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and ALL of the Regulations made under the Act, I shall be forced to make a complaint to Trading Standards and I will also draw this to the attention of the Office of Fair Trading.

 

I respectfully request you review this matter in light of my comments above and I request that you supply me the required information or alternatively confirm the account is closed and the debt written off with a zero balance.

 

I respectfully request a reply within 14 days of the date of this letter.

Yours faithfully

 

 

you can alter and try this one if you like

[Zooee]

Hello Again,

 

Please can someone advise! I ignored them since their last letter but I received this letter yesterday.

 

Can someone help?

 

Thank you!!!

Another Cabot Letter.pdf

[Stephan56]

Have you sent the "account in dispute" letter yet? If not, and timing ok, then send it. Maybe also send the "no harassment" letter to preempt any thoughts of sending someone to call on you.

 

They make noises about having complied, but have not. Don;t give in to their threats.

[Zooee]

I've sent the "account in dispute" letter to them - although not in response to this letter. I've got a good harrassment letter so I'll send that to them and also remind them that is also in dispute.

 

Thanks for the advice!

[Bazooka Boo]

Give them the template letter linked below through the letterbox or chained door.

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resour...ep-visit-.html

 

Tell them to leave as you have nothing to discuss and all communication must be in writing.

 

Tell them you will call the police if they don't leave immediately.

 

Remain calm and polite at all times.

 

Walk away from the door so the visitor cannot try and talk to you.

 

If they don't leave, call the police to report that you are being harassed and the visitor refuses to leave.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/571-failiure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale

 

 

Do not be intimidated by these school bullies, I'll post a couple of other links for you to read about your legal rights;

 

Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (c. 40)

 

Malicious Communications Act 1988 (c. 27)

 

Telecommunications Act 1984 (c. 12) - Statute Law Database

[Zooee]

Thank you for the templates. Your advice is appreciated!

[mr.ton]

They can send someone to collect the debt all they want...unless instructed by a court, it will be a wasted journey as they can simply be told to go away

[BeauBrummie]

Hi Zooee,

 

Just subbing in and offering support, I am alot further down the road with my case

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/144167-bb-cabot.html

 

But I have tried every line with them and they keep giving me the same old rubbish so they are going to court to try to get a judge that does not understand the CCA ----IMO a very big gamble. We shall see.

 

Good Luck

 

Beau

[ScabHunter]

Hi Zooee,

 

I have referred to your Crapbot letters on one of my threads, and given them a bit of analysis. You might like to have a look and see if you find it useful.

 

Letters denying the truth that the prescribed terms MUST be in the signature document -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/223570-cabot-financial-dealing-cabot-2.html#post2488448

 

Letter threatening doorstep harassment -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/223570-cabot-financial-dealing-cabot-2.html#post2488756

 

Hope this helps.

 

SH

[Zooee]

Thanks SH - just read your other thread and it's very useful.

 

I will keep everyone updated with what happens!!!

[Zooee]

Just thought I would let you all know I had a call from an 0845 number last night. I looked it up this morning and apparently it is from a debt collection company called "Fire" who are also "Cabot".

 

Will see whether they phone anymore today.

[Bazooka Boo]

Sure it wasn't these guys?

FIRE - Financial Investigations & Recoveries Europe Ltd.

0845 0700381

[Zooee]

I'm not sure - the number is 0845 070 2622 - they phoned a couple of times last night and they let it ring for AGES!

 

I got the info about who it was who was phoning from the website "whocallsme" and someone on there said it was FIRE and that FIRE are actually Cabot.

[Bazooka Boo]

Yep, it is these guys, very abrupt on the phone!!

Very quick to ask for a reference number aswell, a sure sign of a DCA, reading from a script, I asked if they were going to fit me some smoke alarms:D

No sir! Click.................:-?

FIRE - About FIRE