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cozmek

HSBC - Help on Documents received and NOT received?

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Hi ,

 

I have posted a couple of times on the forum but things went quiet and I didn't receive much further response.

 

I was wondering if anyone could point me to some recent info regarding my HSBC managed loan.

 

I have requested and received all my HSBC paperwork dating back to 2005 (the date we took on the managed loan and consolidated our joint HSBC gold visa into the loan).

 

A couple of things showed up straight away.

 

I had been sold PPI on the Visa even though I was a sole trader and have correspondence showing my request for repayment of fees, after being refused cover when my business dried up. This was refused and I was instructed that this information was on the paperwork when I signed for the card.

 

The second one is a lack of information requested.

 

I requested a copy of the signed HSBC managed loan agreement (after a colleague mentioned the loan could be void if they could not produce the document).

 

This document was not in the giant pile of paperwork/daily accounts/risk assessments that were sent.

 

The only thing I assume, is pertaining to the documents not supplied, was the cover letter.

 

"Please note that with regards to the Managed loan Agreement, this is not held in a structured filing system i.e. in files referenced with your name and account details and is therefore outside the scope of the Data protection Act '98. We are satisified that this procedure meets with the information Commission's requirements.

 

Could you please advise on my next step regarding this information?

I would greatly appreciate receiving any available advice.

 

Thanks

Cozmek

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Hiya cozmec and welcome to the HSBC forum :) apologies for the lack of response to any earlier posts but unfortunately sometimes someone slips through the net :-|.

 

so to your questions;

 

I had been sold PPI on the Visa even though I was a sole trader and have correspondence showing my request for repayment of fees, after being refused cover when my business dried up. This was refused and I was instructed that this information was on the paperwork when I signed for the card.

 

They will moan till the cows come home that the insurance policy wasn't miss-sold but if you were self employed it was always totally useless to you and was therefore never explained properly and therefore miss-sold.

Thats all you really need to say in any letters but have a look on the PPI forum and if you fancy taking it to court there should be a set of particulars of claim in the library you can edit :).

 

I requested a copy of the signed HSBC managed loan agreement (after a colleague mentioned the loan could be void if they could not produce the document).

This document was not in the giant pile of paperwork/daily accounts/risk assessments that were sent.

The only thing I assume, is pertaining to the documents not supplied, was the cover letter.

 

"Please note that with regards to the Managed loan Agreement, this is not held in a structured filing system i.e. in files referenced with your name and account details and is therefore outside the scope of the Data protection Act '98. We are satisified that this procedure meets with the information Commission's requirements.

 

If they don't have a credit agreement for the managed loan its a clear breach of the Consumer Credit Act and the loan is unenforceable until the produce an agreement document.

you should write and tell them this :). in theory you can stop paying the loan and forget about it until they find the missing document but I wouldn't advise this course of action, it could be seen by a judge that you have had the money so you should pay it back. It would be far better to tell them that because of their breach of the CCA you will pay them say £5.00 a month :D.

 

hope that helps

 

pete

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:) Thanks Castlebest. People at work (including an ex bank employee) are saying the same thing!

 

Are there any relevant template letters available, I could structure my reply from?

 

I found this one and at a first glance it seems to be on the right lines?

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/48-bank-templates/129-data-protection-act-non-compliance-template-letters-

 

One final thing that concerns me, the original reply quoted in my previous post uses, The Data Protection Act 98, but most of the posts I have scanned seem to mention 1974.................is ther some horrible 'Catch me out' update to the act that I am missing? :confused:

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Hiya cozmek :) why try to force them to provide a document they have told you they don't have? they are in breach of the Data Protection Act for not supplying a copy in response to your SAR but they have also near enough told you the document doesn't exist.

 

Send them a letter stating they are in breach of the Consumer Credit Act by not keeping a copy of the agreement and state this has rendered the agreement unenforceable and the debt will remain unenforceable until you receive a copy of the credit agreement.

 

You can also use the unenforceable agreement situation as a bargaining tool to get a reduced settlement deal or a reduced deal to pay off over a longer period whichever suits you.

 

You could for instance offer to repay them say 20% of the outstanding debt as a one off goodwill gesture on your part in full and final settlement of the loan or you could offer to pay them say £5 a month again as a goodwill gesture.

 

Hope that helps :)

 

pete

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Thanks Castlebest.

After 6 years my wife has calculated that we are about £400 shy of paying £10,000, which was the original amount of the managed loan.

 

So on that basis, is there any reason to offer a settlement?

 

According to them we would still owe £8,800 for the next 4 years!

 

What would the situation be now?

 

If I have this correct, they are over the required 12 days + 2 for producing the signed copy of the managed loan, so if they produced it now, where would I stand?

 

One final thing. Could you point me in the direction of a template letter, or is the one I mentioned in my last post ok to adapt?

 

Thanks for all your time and help on this Castlebest, I am sure you are aware how helpfull it is and it is sincerely appreciated.

 

Thanks.:)

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Hiya cozmec your loan is unenforceable at the moment however if they do locate the credit agreement and send you a copy it will become enforceable again :cool:. There was a rumor that all of the agreements were sent back to the various branches and due to a misunderstanding these were then shredded but it is only a rumor.

 

With an unenforceable loan the bank can really do nothing (apart from try to bully you) to recover their "debt" the technical legal view of such matters is the money was a gift but you need to be very careful with this.

 

I know a lot of people have just walked away from unenforceable debts but CAG (and I'm in full agreement) has and will never propose or back this action because of the moral stand point that you have had the money so you should repay it so there is no template letter that I'm aware of for the situation that you are in.

 

I think the best place to look for information or maybe get a letter you can edit is in the Debt Action section of the site.

 

pete

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