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    • The above URL does not work but this one does http://forums.National Consumer Service.com/index.php?showtopic=133001  [20.1 is where  VCS  lost then 20.2 where they appealed and lost again . But read the whole thread as it may help you iin other ways too.
    • With regard to your question on post 207 if you bring in the points that I made on the validity of the contract they are supposed to have with Peel holdings  then mention that there are  already doubts about the validity of the contracts that are being used by the PPCs   and the OPS is a classic example. Once you are on there you should then try and get your other point in after that. if it is in connection with the extra charge of  £60 remind the Judge that the charge has been defined by many Court sacross England that the charge is an abuse of process which was covered in PE v Beavis at point 198  " The charge has to be and is set at a level which enables managers to recover the costs of operating the scheme"  IE the £100 charge covers all their expenses so nothing should be added. so as their WS claims an extra £60 that could be judged as perjurious since it is an additional sum that should be known by VCS and the author of the WS as a double recovery. Especially as they have already lost in Court for the same reason. Another cause to prove that they do not comply with their Code of Conduct. file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/CamScanner%2008-05-2020%2016.34.59.pdf  Byelaws are statutory not arbitrary as their WS said on no .42 .   Best of Luck.        
    • stop doing nolans job for them... there are numerous threads here in the same forum yours is in     no DN info to follow   dx    
    • Hi all, just to close this one, please see the photos below....before and after    Thank you, all, for some great advice (as per usual!)
    • Thanks BankFodder.   I wasn't intending on making bones about it with them but I was irked at being dismissed with the phrase 'it's store policy'.  I returned it because I was returning an air hockey game which wasn't functioning properly.  I would have assumed that if it were designed as a toy for an audience that may be prone to dropping it, it would be made to be suitably durable.  I was expecting that a year would have been reasonable and by it not lasting it was, as you mentioned, not of satisfactory quality. Alas, it's not something I wish to pursue to find out for sure.   I do appreciate your feedback, as always on here, I like to know where I stand with these things.  Thanks also for the heads-up on the Youtube video, I had not thought of that.
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    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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Egg CCA received - ?Next Move - Help!

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Hi everyone, can anyone advise me on the following please : Egg loan CCA received - doesn't have prescribed t&c within the signed agreement - they are seperate. Doesn't have cancellation rights within the signed agreement. This agreement was signed for at home and sent by post. My question is this - what is my next move? should I get a solicitor's opinion as to the enforceability - and if so can anyone recommend someone. Or should I just write to EGG and tell them its not enforceable and then risk Court (very scary option)


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The T&C will be separate - it is the prescribed terms - reference to a credit limit, interest rate and repayment schedule - that are required to make an agreement enforceable and they must be in the same part of the agreement as the signature box (not necessarily on the same page but in the same section). You don't need to consult a solicitor. If you post it on here (Photobucket is good) with your personal information taken out we can have a look at it and tell you if it is enforceable. I expect it is standard Egg agreement. If it is, it will have "Approved Limit" on it instead of "Credit Limit", which strictly it should have to comply with the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983. I don't know if anyone has actually challenged that in court but my view is the a judge would regard it as a De Minimus matter ie it makes no difference to the enforceabilty as long as the prescribed terms are there.

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It does not appear to have the cancellation rights.


If an agreement is not properly executed it can only be enforced by court order (s65 of the CCA 1974). A court is not allowd to enforce such an agreement under certain circumstances:


2. If it is a cancellable agreement and the requirements about cancellation rights have not been complied with (s127(4))

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  • 3 weeks later...
It does not appear to have the cancellation rights.


If an agreement is not properly executed it can only be enforced by court order (s65 of the CCA 1974). A court is not allowd to enforce such an agreement under certain circumstances:



2. If it is a cancellable agreement and the requirements about cancellation rights have not been complied with (s127(4))


Hi Guys! Would appreciate some help if possible - am sending this letter to Egg in response to the CCA I received - It has a signature, but no cancellation or prescribed terms and conditions within the actual signed agreement.


Could you please check this letter to see if its ok - do I need to add anything?


Thank you for your response to my request under the Consumer Credit Act section 78. In your response you confirm this as a true copy of the original agreement executed by yourselves on the 24/05/06.


As you must realise this agreement does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and would therefore only be enforceable by a court under s65. However, the absence of any prescribed terms means that a court would be prevented from enforcing it under s127(3


I am granting to you a further 21 days to produce a copy of an executable agreement. After that I will consider that the above account is closed and that you will no longer pursue the alleged debt. After this period you should close the file and cease processing all personal data relating to me on this matter.


yours sincerely xxx


Will this do?


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Or you could try Cerberusalert's letter:


Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974


Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.


The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.


My request remains outstanding. The items you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. It neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.


I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.


You had until XX/XX/2008 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.


To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.


The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office


To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.


Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.



I look forward to your reply.


Yours faithfully

Print name do not sign

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Hi, Thanks for that - the only thing is I feel awful - I mean, they have sent me a signed copy of an agreement - it has just got bits missing. They might just laugh me all the way to court and i will have to pay court costs etc what will their next move be do you think?

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Hi, Thanks for that - the only thing is I feel awful - I mean, they have sent me a signed copy of an agreement - it has just got bits missing. They might just laugh me all the way to court and i will have to pay court costs etc what will their next move be do you think?

Yes, it is signed but improperly executed. Choice has to be down to you in the end.


Most of us only fight them for 2 reasons.


1. They behaved like highwaymen when we asked for genuine assistace.


2. We can no longer afford to pay the installments, for various reasons.

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  • 1 month later...

Having received cca from egg with no T&Cs or cancellation rights, I wrote to Egg telling them I thought it was unenforceable. They have since written back asking why I think it is unenforceable. My question is this, do I carry on paying them and should I write to them and tell them why I think it is unenforceable?

Thanks for any advice you can give.

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