HSBC Claim - Error in my claim??

[PHayes]

I have tried to read as many posts as I can, but I am now a little worried.

 

Having read the details of the website, I have sent my 1st letter, which received a reply stating that they would look into my claim. However, the 14 days elapsed and so I sent the 2nd letter.

 

Some 6 days letter I received a reply saying that the bank do not agree that the charges are disproportionate. They also state the "The unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 do not apply to business customers as they are not consumers for the purposes of those regulations.

 

They also state that if I wish to escalate my concerns to the next stage that I should now write to the Customer Relations Department in Leeds.

 

The account that I am trying to re-claim excessive charges for was when I was self-employed as a Sole Trader. When I log onto the internet bank I have to use the Personal Internet Banking section and NOT the Business one.

 

I am now very concerned that I have jeopardised my chances of claiming against the bank.

 

Has anyone made the same mistake? Anyone got any useful information?

 

Thanks to all that have supplied information on the Consumer Action Group web-site. It has been an eye-opener!!!

[rdm2006]

there are instructions for bus users but not sure where so dont worry check thru all the threads someone else did a similar thing and i have seen a thread lrading to the correct place for you

[rdm2006]

I knew I had seen one on here somewhare (amazing when you find everything but the one thing youre looking for isnt it) here is the link took me ages to find it so i hope it helps.

[PHayes]

Many thanks for the info.

 

Do I need to re-submit the claim to HSBC with the wording for business customers, and start the who;e process again. To be honest, knowing my luck they will defend the claim and I will lose out!!

[PHayes]

Unfortunately, the letter was the LBA one.

 

It seems that they have replied to the LBA stating that "The unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 do not apply to business customers ........etc, etc and that they are unable to agree to my request.

 

Should I resend the LBA with the correct business letter or should I just go ahead with the court claim. The incorrect LBA letter was dated 3rd August to which they replied and denied my claim.

 

Thanks for the replies so far. It does make you feel a little less isolated.

[rdm2006]

send it again at least it will look like you gave them extra time

[PHayes]

Thanks for the support and replies.

 

I will send the correct LBA today. Should I give them another 14 days?

[rdm2006]

yep shows the court you have given the bank every oppotunity to sort this out

[PHayes]

I hear what you say, but giving them another 14 days to either ignore or refuse my claim is galling. Howabout 7 days as they have already been given the 14 day LBA, to which they refused to play ball and pointed out my mistake!

 

I was also asked to take a £3000 managed loan to repay the bank. Can I include this in the claim or is it a separate matter? What can I include if it is possible?

 

Thanks again to both Karnevil & Rdm2006 for their posts so far.

[rdm2006]

ok 1 is your choice like you say you have already given them notice

 

2 you can claim for the interest charged on your managed loan but only on the part which covers charges

[PHayes]

Thanks for the considered advice.

 

Should I put a separate claim for the Managed Loan, as I have already sent the prelim letter and am about to send the 2nd LBA to HSBC.

 

I don't want to confuse them

[rdm2006]

Again your choice You can add a paragraph to the LBA saying that you are adding this to the claim or do it seperately - As long as it does not exceed the £5000 small claims limit.

[PHayes]

I think I will detail it as a separate claim, as I don't want to hold up my current one.

 

It will take me a little while to ascertain how the managed loan was made up, and to be truthful after splitting up from my wife of 20 years earlier this year I can't afford to wait as the bills are piling up!

[PHayes]

Ah well. Just receievd a reply to my 2nd LBA, stating that they are sorry that I felt it necessary to write again on the matter.They say their position has not changed and they procedded to re-iterate the policy once again.

 

Final sign off says that they know this will not be the response that I had hoped for (damned right) and this letter should clarifys the banks position.

If not satisfied .......... refer complaint to the Financial Ombudsman as this represents are final response on the matter. They obviously mean business, but so do I!!!

 

Has anyone written to the Ombudsman as a matter of interest, and how did it go?

 

Now looks as though they want to pay me £2979.84 inclusive of 8% interest. Will now have to wait till pay day next week to file MCOL claim.

[PHayes]

Well it's pay day today. Just about to complete MCOL claim, but I have a few questions: -

 

As I traded as a sole trader my HSBC account was held as "my full name T/A my company name". Common sense says that I should file the claim as an organisation but I don't want to have the claim rejected if I need to submit it as an individual. More to the point I don't want to spend another £120 unnecessarily.

 

When completing the bank address should I use the local bank address, which is where I initially sent my correspondence or should I use sunny Leeds, which is now infamous due to this site and my LBA.

 

BTW. Did anyone listen to the radio program on Saturday - I think it was Moneybox, about this rip off?

 

Finally, I read some more info on the Which site, but I'm now feeling decidedly nervous about this whole thing, as they seemed to intimate that as a serial offender with charges of approx £2100 the court will look on my claim less favourably. Now beginning to think that I should n't have looked at this site as well as this magnificant one.

[jonni2bad]

It's been some time since I saw the MoneyClaim forms - If there is a space for both, put both, otherwise just your name.

 

Head Office for Bank address.

 

The Which? website has no basis for saying that, since a court has never had the chance to review a case (so therefore there can be no evidence to suggest it). Best to avoid that site unless you really want mis-information to cloud the issues.

[PHayes]

Well Jonni2bad thanks for the very prompt response. The MCOL online form only allows one option only, either individual or organisation.

 

Arlington Business Park it is then for the 2nd point.

 

Fair point about the other site though.

[PHayes]

Well it's taken a fair few hours to contain all the info on the MCOL claim form. I want to add the following text, as I'm technically a business (sole trader) can I, therefore still include "They are also invalid under the Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977 s.4. In the event that the charges are not a penalty they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15." as I want to include a legal bit within the text.

 

It is quite difficult to write sufficient detail within 24 lines!

 

And finally, I wanted to clarify the daily interest charge as the amount claimed without interest multiplied by 0.00022

 

Hopefully that's the last question for a while.

[PHayes]

Whilst trying to complete the MCOL form I wasn't sure about including the line "that I had attached spreadsheet detailing the charges relating to the claim" as I could n't see how to attach one.

 

I contacted the Money Claim Helpline, who said there was no way to attach anything to the claim, but I could include a statement stating that details were available if required. I also learnt that it's ok just to layout the text in a solid paragraph rather than trying to make it look pretty and wasting valuable lines and characters.

 

I hope that helps someone else.

[PHayes]

Well today is D Day. I have finally actioned my MCOL form and have obtained the claim number. However, I am a little nervous as I had no reply to my previous post. Therefore, I just included Supply of Goods & Services Act 1982 s.15. and didn't include the bit about Unfair Contract Terms Act.

 

I really hope that this is correct for a sole trader as well!!!!!

 

Fingers & toes firmly crossed.

[PHayes]

Thanks Karnevil. I've only just got back in. How I hate Mondays!

 

Here are the details, hopefully correct as the MCOL form has been sent early this morning, and it's probably too late, but here goes: -

 

"Claimant has account XXXXXXXX with Defendant from 2000 conducted on standard terms and conditions. Claimant is claiming the return of £2237.39 taken in charges over 6 yrs. The Defendant's charges are a disproportionate

penalty and unenforceable as they are contrary to common law and contrary to statute. List of the charges applied is available to substantiate the claim.The charges debited are punitive in nature;are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred; but instead unduly enrich the Defendant in respect of such charges with a view to profit. In the event that the charges are not a penalty they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. Defendant has declined justification of charges despite repeated requests. Claimant claims interest under Sec. 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% a year from 21st Sept.2000 to 4th Sept. 2006 of £746.88 and also interest at same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.49."

 

 

 

My major concern is that I will be treated as a business even though a Sole Trader and the legal bits might be different.

 

 

Thanks once again for your input.

[PHayes]

Have checked the MCOL web site, and as I haven't had a response to my earlier post I'm keeping my fingers & toes crossed.!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

According to the details the claim has been acknowledged yesterday (7th Sept). What's the timescales involved now. Hope & prey that I've not put anything in there that will cause the claim to be thrown out. Does it mean that they will be defending? Oh I'm so confused.

[PHayes]

Having checked, my claim was acknowledged on the MCOL site dated 07/09/06. According to the site they have a further 28 days to respond. It does seem a protracted drawn out process, and with my luck it will be on the 28th day that I receive notification that they will be defending the claim in court.

 

Reading through some of the posts it really seems pot luck as to how quickly HSBC respond. Can't quite get my head around the different timings. Surely it should be fairly standard!

 

Roll on the 5th October. Fingers crossed.

[Michael Browne]

Not a further 28 days, but 28 days from the original date of service.

[PHayes]

Thanks Michael. It's been a long day, and I'm being a little thick. Do you mean 28 days from filing the MCOl claim?

 

Sorry if it seems basic, but not had a good day today (yesterday)!