2005 Volkswagen polo needs new engine!

[Mighty Minty]

Hmm, this all sounds a bit complicated (and expensive!) to me.

 

I bought my car ten months ago and although it's been regularly serviced it has not always been VW so I don't think it's even worth approaching them. I don't fancy waiting around for months to get this resolved either.

 

Think I'll have to cut my losses and I've approached the dealership I bought it from to complain to them in the hope I can get a reasonable trade in.

 

I'm really disappointed. My first car was a VW which has been passed through the family and is still running like a dream. Thought I was buying a reliable car .... guess I was a bit naive. Be warned anyone thinking of buying a Polo.

 

Would be really interested to hear if Blinky is still running the Polo that started this thread and if the £500 was worth it.

[heliosuk]

Hmm, this all sounds a bit complicated (and expensive!) to me.

 

I bought my car ten months ago and although it's been regularly serviced it has not always been VW so I don't think it's even worth approaching them. I don't fancy waiting around for months to get this resolved either.

 

Think I'll have to cut my losses and I've approached the dealership I bought it from to complain to them in the hope I can get a reasonable trade in.

 

I'm really disappointed. My first car was a VW which has been passed through the family and is still running like a dream. Thought I was buying a reliable car .... guess I was a bit naive. Be warned anyone thinking of buying a Polo.

 

Would be really interested to hear if Blinky is still running the Polo that started this thread and if the £500 was worth it.

 

Blinky might well be a bit busy for a bit I think and would hope, but I know she wouldn't mind if I let you know that the car was absolutely fine after the head change. This was after the VW preferred route of repairing the head .....which went wrong. The repair is very specialist but if you can get the right people then it's more than possible.

 

The car was changed due to a change in circumstances for something a bit bigger.

 

The big issue is getting VW to admit liability and there is a certain way of doing this. It is somewhat protracted and does involve an initial bit of expense at a VW dealer but done properly in a controlled manner can yield results. Worth a go at and possibly more force can be gathered if you and Gary1 were to do it together.

 

Service history is important provided it is good. Don't worry about it being all VW dealer. More important it's been done. Reality is it has no bearing on fault but makes the case somewhat easier.

 

Both let me know if you need any assistance.

[gary1]

A friend of mines son has an 05 1200 polo with the same problems as it happens number 3 cylinder low on compression (same as daughters) and he has removed the head. He has worked on engines of all types for years, bikes cars trucks. I spoke to him last night and he says number 3 exhaust valve is crazed with cracks and the car has only done 30k

 

And vw dont think there is a problem. Head in sand springs to mind!

[heliosuk]

It's not quite a case of burying their head in the sand as they have in the past admitted they have a problem and have rectified it. The issue is they don't like paying for it and will squirm like a slippery eel to avoid paying finding any insignificant reason to get out of any moral obligation to fix what is frankly a massive engineering cockup.

 

You would have thought though, that the fix was relatively simple, just change the valves, but the design of the head and the inherrant fault within means you also have to change the valve seats for a 100% reliable repair. This is where it gets difficult!!

[blinky123]

Hi guys,

 

Sorry to hear you're both having problems! Yes, I have been busy with a new arrival so the Polo had to go as it was only a 3 door which would have been a nightmare with the car seat! I sold it to a young girl who was taking driving lessons - so that should be indicative of how sure I was of the car after the repair. It ran like an absolute dream for months after the repair and I was confident in selling it to her.

 

Don't give up hope of getting any help from VW just because you haven't had it serviced with them - I managed to get a good result and I'd had one out of network service. Don't even think about it though if you haven't had it REGULARLY serviced at least somewhere.

 

I would imagine VW are probably sick to the back teeth of having this problem rear its ugly head at their Customer Service centre as it's obvious it's a big problem, they may even have some other sort of plan of action than they did at the time my car broke. Have either of you actually contacted them to see what their stance is on this at the moment?

 

After the repair, I actually realised I loved that car SO much I wish I'd never sold it now! I'm sure I could manage with a 3 door and a car seat, but oh well....

[MrJonathan72]

Hi AllI saw with interest the post you had made about low compression on a VW Polo. My mum who is now a pensioner has this same problem and I am trying to get it fixed.Basically the car is about 5 or 6 yrs old and she has not had it serviced for 3 or 4 yrs. Do you think that rules out any contribution from VW? She bought it from a VW dealer when it was a year old.The garage she uses have said they will need to take the engine apart an get the cylinder head fixed by a machinist and then put it back. They have quoted circa £1000 including labour. Is that a good price or do you think she can get it cheaper?Your advice would be apprecaited as my mum hasn't got much money and I need to get it fixed as cheaply as possible.ThanksJonathan

[blinky123]

Hi there,

 

I don't think you're gona get any help from VW really. I had it serviced correctly to scedule and they still had my car for 2 months while I fought with them to fix it. That sounds like a fair price to get it fixed really - a VW repair cost roughly £1500 for me (even though I only paid £500) so £1000 from an independent sounds OK. Make sure they know what they're doing though! Even VW cocked up my repair and had to do it again!

[gary1]

I was quoted £650-1000 for repair

so would think by the time the engine is opened up then £1000 for other problems may be about right

[heliosuk]

Gary, Johnathon,

 

The price you have been quoted is about right for the repair however you must bare in mind that it's on the basis that the machine work is done correctly. With this repair it's a one go only, not like quite some years ago when it could be done a few times.

 

I would make sure that they know that the limits they have to work with are 4 thou. This is the allowable clearance from valve top i.e. follower to cam. The valves also need to be ground in with the new seats. It's not just a case of putting the head into a machine shop and saying fit valve seats. If the current original seat has worn away more than that hen the head is "technically" written off.

 

Just make sure that if the repair is done outside of the VW network they are aware of the potential issues if they get it wrong.

 

Essentially, the repairing garage has little room to manouvere.

 

As Blinky pointed out, even VW got the repair wrong which resulted in a new head however she put up a good well documented and backed fight. I'm not so sure you have this opportunity.

[Ell-enn]

Does anyone know if this problem occurs with 2007 Polos ? Travelling to work this morning I lost power for a few minutes and the yellow engine light was on. I was about half a mile from work and managed to limp into the car park OK and switched engine off. Waited a minute and turned engine back on - everything was ok and no engine light. I'm probably panicking as I know nothing about cars but remembered seeing this thread some time ago.

[blinky123]

I don't see why not? What engine size is it? Just bumping this for you really as I have no idea

[Ell-enn]

Hi, thanks for your reply - it's a 1.2 and strangely it's been fine since.

[blinky123]

Mine had an isolated incidence then just got worse and worse starting about a month later so keep an eye on it, especially when idling in traffic or at traffic lights. Hope it's nothing! x

[heliosuk]

Ellenn,

 

The valve problem like blinkys only affected 1.2 3 cylinder engines and 1.4 4 cylinder engines. The problem would only manifest itself on low mileage engines so if they went above 50K miles it is very unlikely that blinkys problem would occur. I understand from my contacts that the problem had been fixed for 2007 model year cars onwards.

 

However, just to be on the safe side it's easy to see if yours is potentially affected and the cheapest way to do this would be to ask an independant garage to interogate the engine management system only and give you the stored fault codes. They then need to do a compression check when the engine is at normal operating temperature. This should be a dry test and a wet test. If the garage knows what they are doing they will understand. Nothing more or nothing less!!

 

Then post the results. It should not be more than an hours labour. Of course if it has done more than 50, 000 miles it is highly unlikely it will be the same problem as blinkys and is more than likely to be coil pack related which the DTC codes should have registered.

 

Nothing to worry about at the moment.

[Ell-enn]

Thanks for your reply Heliosuk, much appreciated. The car has done just over 19k miles - it's due for next service in September so will mention it then. Although I did have a thought that it might have been due to the fact that I slowed down pretty quick as a car pulled out in front of me and I may have tried to take off in 4th gear ? (can't believe I've admitted to that lol)

[heliosuk]

From what you have described Ellenn this could well induce a an engine malfunction light to flicker but it shouldn't. There can be an array of other things that can cause this to come on in situations such as this.

 

The crux is that you need to do what I suggested in post #89 sooner rather than later. The issue with these engines is a compression loss due to premature valve wear. It will be linked to electrics as this is what the system measures. The problem with the engine is a mechanical one, not an electrical one which is where the Codes will show and mislead the dealer.

 

Just get the compressions checked as a minimum asap. If you don't do this it will be an even more nightmare trying to recoup costs from VW if there is a problem.

[greenbee]

Hi Helios

Hope you can help - I must say after reading these threads I do feel slightly comforted . My daughter bought a 2005 1.2 polo from VW in sheffield in 2009 with one years warranty. At the time she bought it it had 29000 miles on the clock ,She had it serviced at our local garage after 5000 miles and again a month ago at the same garage. last week she called out green flag as it was misfiring, they checked the coil and spark plugs which were both ok , he did a diagnostic and said low compression on cylinder 2 - take to the garage. we took it to our local garage who again changed and checked coils and spark plugs but still misfiring again did a diagnostic test and said it was a specialist job ( low compression on cylinder 2). So we have taken it to a vw technician who has said the same thing and the engine will have to be stripped and estimated cose £500 TO £1000 and advised us to go back to VW in Sheffield as it is a very big job and this really shouldnt have happened . She has only done 14000 miles since she bought it - do you think we have a case even though we havent had it serviced by VW. My 2 other daughters have much older cars and this seems a horrendous problem for a reasonably new car with low mileage. We have had 3 diagnostic checks which all say the same thing .

Many thanks

[blinky123]

As long as you have had it serviced on schedule you should be OK, they will try to fob you off like they did with me though. I didn't have it serviced with VW but at my local independent and it definitely made things harder but I got there in the end.

 

Good luck!

[heliosuk]

Hello Greenbee,

 

Whilst the issue you have is identical to Blinky's, her case was slightly different in that the car was only 4 years old, one owner and considerably lower mileage and knowing how VW seems to work I think you are going to have a fight on your hands here.

 

So a starter for ten would be to give date bought, exact mileage at time and last service shown at the time of purchase with the mileage, the record of services since purchase giving date, mileage and what type of service. This is exactly the stuff VW will look for.

 

So in the mean time, you do actually need to get it into VW for the diagnosis. Without this you will have no basis to complain. I wouldn't be too free with information to the dealer either at the moment, just mention the misfire, diagnosis by green flag and supply a stamped service book. They will or should come back with the same diagnosis but don't bank on it. Just ask for the diagnosis and repair. If they are any good they will tell you it needs a new head and that they have requested assistance from VW which was rejected. Then ask for the reference no as this will always be given.

 

I have to say I don't hold out much hope with your case but it's worth a pop. In the mean time I'll look for a way out to get it repaired properly. The suggested repair by VW is very risky and the only real 100% guaranteed repair is a new head assembly unfortunately.

 

Let us know how you get on.

[greenbee]

Hi Helios.

Thanks for your reply

She bought the car in June 2009 ( date of first registration 10/2005) with 29751 miles on the clock It has now done approx 43000 miles (I cant check the specifics as the car is still at the VW garage and the handbook) She had it serviced in Feb 10 and 2 months ago by our local garage. oil filter , oil, etc ( sorry the handbook in the car so I cant check exact dates or mileage). but 2 services since she got it.

We contacted VW and they did a free goodwill diagnostic check yesterday and low compression on cylinder 2 and just as you say needs a new head, they have requested assistance from VW and rejected ( cost £1500) . I called the general services manager who was dealing with it and said that I had read about numerous polo's with this problem ( to which he did actually agree ) , she has bought what she thought was a reliable car from the" trusted" VW brand which is now useless unless a vast amount of money is spent on it. she still has finance on this car. He advised if I was not happy and to be fair he was very helpful he hadvised me to call customer care in milton keynes and raise the issue with them - in the meantime he was happy for the car to be left with them until a conclusion is reached. So this is where we are now - The case manager from VW customer care is going to liase with the VW service manager and see if there is anything further which can be done . not looking good really

Thanks

[heliosuk]

Well it's actually better than blinky's situation at this point. I take it the general services manager is from VW Sheffield?

 

Can you explain to me what happened next?

 

Generally you get put through to VW customer care which is not VW GB or GMBH but an outside agency working on behalf of VW GB.

 

They are employed on a basis to soert out claims on very strict guidlines which is no different to what the dealer has access to.

 

You need to get to the right people.

 

"So this is where we are now - The case manager from VW customer care is going to liase with the VW service manager and see if there is anything further which can be done . not looking good really"

 

Keep very explicit records as to what has gone on. I'm not so sure at the moment you are dealing with VW themselves which is why you need to be attentive to what is going on.

 

VW group are very cute about how they make you think they are dealing with issues. The reality it's not actually them most of the time and when you get the right people you generally get a better response.

 

What's intriguing is that they have paid for the diagnostic so they technically recognise they have might have a problem.

 

Keep us informed.

 

Experience has shown that VW frequently shoot themselves in the foot and for £1500 it's well worth playing their game at the moment.

[greenbee]

Hi Helios.

Update - well quite a lot has happened but really no further on.

 

The VW customer care manager asked me to list how many family members had VW's so that he could speak to VW and see if he could get a bigger discount on the repair !!! I thought this very strange because VW had already said no to any goodwill repair so why would they change their minds.Anyway I gave him the list and in actual fact between the family we have quite a lot of VW's , audi's and seats but he hadnt even spoken to the service manager at VW sheffield. After reading what you say about VW customer care I think they are stringing me along. They are going to ring me next week with the outcome!As you say they are very cute. I did say to the services manager in Sheffield I would be emailing the chief exec of VW which is when he advised me to go to customer care first. I dont hold out much hope really but as you say I am going along with it.

 

I have also called the financial ombudsman for advice as she still has it on HP , so is paying for a car which is useless unless £1500 is spent to repair it. They will raise a complaint but we have not set this into motion yet until we hear from VW.

 

So thats where we are and thank you so much for your help.

[heliosuk]

They do seem to be playing a game at the moment. What seems to be obvious is the loyalty to VW. It's all good stuff to have in the powder keg so to speak. At this moment in time I'd let them get on with it but be on top of them in terms of reasonable time lines. My gut feel is that they will come in with an offer so don't jump the gun and accept. There is reasoning behind this which could extend to pages but the mere fact that they have already paid for the diagnosis puts you in a positive position. A bit of cat and mouse me thinks but don't just accept an initial offer unless it is a full head replacement. Any repair they offer will not work and I am surprised they even suggest it. It can be done but is mega risk and ultimately will result in a head replacement.

 

Keeps us informed of the proposals and play the game with them, i.e. don't make an instant decision.

[greenbee]

Hi Helios.

Thanks again - will of course keep you updated.

[greenbee]

Hi Helios.

Thanks again - will of course keep you updated.

 

Hi Folks - Update.

 

VW called on thursday morning to apologise they hadnt been in touch - the case manager who was dealing with it was off sick ! and they would call back later thursday ( which they didnt) . However the service manager at VW sheffield called on friday morning and said VW customer care would contribute to the cost- they would do the repair ( head replacement) for £679 ( rather than £1600).

 

Helios - do you think we should accept this? I am pleased with this result although still feel slightly annoyed it has even happened in the first place. Once again thanks for your help.

 

Sarah