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hfc is it legal ??


feelinglow
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Hi guys

 

I've just had a quick read through and may be able to add some insights to this case.

 

The loan agreement is a fixed term, fixed rate agreement regulated by the CCA. The PPI premium is a single premium added to the loan and attracts interests over the full term (calculated up front).

 

Went printing the legal agreements in branches, you'd get one "original" copy and two duplicates (for single signatory agreements). The original must be signed by both the borrower and the lender in order to be a correctly executed contract. The original is retained securely by HFC, one duplicate goes to the customer, the other in the customer's file. No signature from the borrower and there is no contract to enforce. Furthermore, HFC would not have your consent to supply data about you to credit reference agencies either if you haven't signed said contract.

 

Now, the PPI will have separate T&C's to the loan agreement and you should have been given a copy of these when you left the branch. If I remember correctly, the policy would pay out for a maximum of 5 years, but I don't recall any term that allowed them to pay reduced amounts. The insurance provider is Hamilton Insurance Company Ltd.

 

When accepting a claim, the insurer would back date it to the first day of illness/disability and make a payment to the loan. They would then require you to keep sending in claim forms while you continue to be unable to work. Medical retirement usually means completing a form every 6 months rather than monthly.

 

The T&C's of the policy should state that the insured is the whole value of the monthly loan instalments - not partial.

 

The insurance policy itself is quite straight forward really. If the claim was accepted, Hamilton Insurance would continue to make payments until you returned to work or until the loan matured (the end date). The only amount you would be required to pay would be the arrears you accrued before you became ill and unable to work. I struggle to see how this amounts to over £10,000 though...

 

In my view, the unsigned agreement renders the insurance issues a moot point. There is no enforceable agreement under the CCA.

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Thanks Scooby

 

You obviously have some inside knowledge regarding the agreements, your input is welcome and if the agreement they hold is unsigned it does make it easy.

 

The main problem we have had to date is establishing the amount of arrears which we can finally work out now. So we have several options open to us one of which could be no enforceable agreement. But if they do prove an enforceable agreement it will be useful to have other arguments which convince them to to reach an agreement.

 

I was busy last week but I will suggest the next move in the next 48 hours any comments are welcome of course.

 

Pedross

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Hi all

 

I've had a read through and found this part under Protection Benefits para (ii)

 

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp94/badger1964_2008/Hamilton/hampg3001.jpg

 

Once you've been off work for 14 consecutive days they will pay 14/30ths of the monthly benefit. After that they will pay 1/30th for each day your off work. Not sure wot that would work out too, maths was never my strong point.

Not sure if this is of any relevence or not ??

 

Best Rgds

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Hi FL

 

I have had chance to go through the information you have received recently and I think its looking good so far.

 

I can see no reason why you would be paying them any more money so we need to give them one more chance to show why they think you should.

 

You need to send a letter to HFC which I will type up for you Monday or Tuesday. Please pm me if its not done by then to remind me.

 

Do you feel that they have supplied a full copy of your file under the SAR or are the documents you posted up the only ones received.

 

So far we do not have a signed agreement and a copy of one that does not add up with all sorts of interesting features in it. Therefore, if they do not have a signed agreement it is game over for them. If they do we will deal with that when the time comes.

 

Pedross

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HFC Bank

PO Box 1520

Birmingham

B1 3PR

 

 

28 October 2009

 

Dear Sirs

 

Re: Name Account Number ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

I am in receipt of your letter of 13 October 2009 in which you have replied to my Section 77 request and thank you for the enclosures.

 

However, I would remind you again that I sent a Subject Access Request, under the Data Protection Act 1998, on 18 May 2009 by recorded delivery and I sent you a payment of £10.00 which you cashed. I requested all of the information that you hold on your files about my account. You have failed to supply the information within the time allowed of 40 calendar days.

 

In addition to copies of all the information held on my file I would particularly request a copy of the original signed credit agreement. I realise that you have already sent me a copy of the agreement, which you claim is a copy of the executed loan agreement and it would therefore appear that this is the agreement you would look to enforce.

If I am mistaken in forming this opinion please provide the copy requested above. I would also point out that this account is still in dispute due to your failure to provide me with the information I have been requesting. If in fact you do not have a signed agreement I would request that you confirm this to me rather than avoiding your responsibilities and continuing to cause me stress and concern.

 

I trust that you will now supply me with all of the information requested and I look forward to receiving this information in due course.

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

Feelingglow

 

Feelingglow

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi pedross

 

Been a short while since I've heard anything off of them..Not had a direct response to the letter I sent them but I did get this letter off them today.

 

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp94/badger1964_2008/hfcrespon.jpg

 

Do I ignore this 1 and keep waiting for a proper reply or send the same letter again. Thx in advance.

 

All the best

FL

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Hi FL

 

I think it would be a good idea to send a cover letter to Beneficial in response to this.

 

Say you are in receipt of their letter and that you are waiting for a reply to your own requests (copy enclosed) before you can decide what to do.

 

Pedross

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Hi pedross

 

Well guess they must be getting desperate now. I received this today....

 

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp94/badger1964_2008/housecall.jpg

 

I have already sent them the warning letter about knocking the door before, guess they have ignored that as well as the previous letter lol

 

What would you advise with this 1, shell I just ignore it and tell them to go away politely or the more @#*&$^ version lol

 

Best Rgds

FL

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I think it just crossed with your last letter. They may just try it on and send someone round and personally, what I would do is be ready in case they do. Have a copy of your last letter, plus the one mentioned in it and the doorstep one all ready. If someone does turn up do not let them in for any reason take their name, hand them the letters and insist that they take them back to the office and hand them to a senior manager.

 

That will really put the pressure on them. Hand delivered by their own staff, brilliant.

 

That's if they turn up and if they do they really are getting desperate. It would suggest to me that they do not have a case to take to court. Another point, do not discuss any aspect with them, ask them to reply in writing. If they ask if you are taking advice, say you are, but you are not allowed to discuss it.

 

It appears that they are running out of ideas.

 

Pedross

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Hi pedross

 

Finally got the response today 1st class parcel of about 100 A4 sheets.

This is the letter that came with it....

 

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp94/badger1964_2008/replyletter.jpg

 

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp94/badger1964_2008/reply2.jpg

 

Now they have also supplied another copy of the agreement this time it has been

re-wrote in pen but on a Beneficial finance agreement headed paper.

 

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp94/badger1964_2008/newagreement.jpg

 

Also not signed as they mentioned in the letter.Now this is the copy which I put up b4 when

they sent it the other week

 

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp94/badger1964_2008/agreementcopy1.jpg

 

Now whoever wrote their latest agreement out in pen as not put all the right figures down

correctly.The fact that it as been re-wrote out on different headed paper can't be right

can it ?? Hope this lot helps out more. Thx pedross

 

Sorry almost forgot they knocked my door today as well.. gave them the doorstep letter and also said in future to write and not knock my door again, got his name as well.. he didn't want to go away so told him I was getting advise and could not talk about it. told him to go read his letter I gave him in the car.

 

Best Rgds

FL

Edited by feelinglow
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Well done you! Send him packing to report back.

 

I think we have finally got a result after all of the persistence with the letters.

 

The first letter you just posted up is the key to all of this. They do not have a copy of the original agreement and they have admitted it to you. Do not lose these letters. Not only do they not have the original they do not even have a copy. Having said that and I do not want to dampen this, they could always find one later but they have had enough time to find it so far.

 

So, do we write back or do we wait, that is the question. I think we will wait a week and see if anything else arrives and then decide. Post a reminder or pm me if I lose track of time please.

 

The bottom line is - if they do not come back to you with a copy of your agreement, the next letter will be to tell them that you consider under the circumstances that you have paid them more than enough already or something like. I would say that we are 99% there now.

 

I think they will know that anyway when your guy reports back.

 

Pedross

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Hi pedross

 

Cheers buddy will send you the reminder next week. Forgot to mention the guy who came was the branch manager for the local branch of Beneficial finance seems head office has past it over to them now to deal with for some reason. maybe they were hoping I would just give in to them face to face lol. Thx again. Speak soon.

 

Best Rgds

FL

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Hi pedross

 

That's brill thanks for that, lets hope they take note too this one once and for all. Will keep you updated as soon as I hear back from them. Thx again for all your help with this couldn't of managed without you cheers buddy.

 

Best Rgds

FL

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